Mindless meaderings

[timjet]

Just a couple of thoughts that jumped into my rather aged mind over the last couple of days.

Have any of you guys color coded your fuel caps, water holding tank caps and waste holding tank caps?
The other day I filled my water tank and half way through I thought to myself, I really didn't check to see if I got the right hole. Just unscrewed the cap and mindlessly put the hose in. Yea, I know where it goes and I've done it enough, but having a second check by color coding the caps seems worth the effort. Water in the wrong hole can ruin you're whole season, maybe diesel in the wrong hole is worse.


Engine low oil pressure and high coolant temp alarms. Can anyone really hear them if they go off when you're doing 20 kts with the wind blowin in your face. I've got a couple of Borel alarms and you can hear them, I mean really hear them and so can everyone within a 1000 ft radius, but not the engine alarms. Anyone else concerned about this and do anything about it?

 

[markpierce]

Color coded caps?* Haven't thought that far ahead.* Black for holding tank, blue for water, red for fuel?

Won't have an outdoor helm.* Should I worry?

 

[Marin]

timjet wrote:

*
1. Have any of you guys color coded your fuel caps, water holding tank caps and waste holding tank caps?


2. Engine low oil pressure and high coolant temp alarms. Can anyone really hear them if they go off when you're doing 20 kts with the wind blowin in your face.

1. Our four fuel fillers are amidships in the deck.* Our two water fillers are on the aft deck.* The holding tank outlets are in the side of the hull.* Pretty hard to confuse them.

2.* Our alarms are under the flying bridge consol where they are VERY loud at either the lower or upper helms. Down below they're right over your head, up above they're right in front of your feet.* No problem hearing them over the engines.* But I don't trust alarms as far as I can spit. They're like fuses--- they're there to tell you that the piece of equipment they're associated with has just failed.

This is one reason we never drive the boat from the upper helm.* Can't hear, feel, or smell what's going on in the engine room from up there.* If we were ever*in doubt about this policy before, the day we averted a boat fire by being at the lower helm instead of the upper helm convinced us once and for all to never drive a boat -- any boat--- from a flying bridge.* And we never will.

-- Edited by Marin on Tuesday 25th of January 2011 07:39:25 PM

 

[timjet]

Marin wrote:

*

1. Our four fuel fillers are amidships in the deck.* Our two water fillers are on the aft deck.* The holding tank outlets are in the side of the hull.* Pretty hard to confuse them.

This is one reason we never drive the boat from the upper helm.* Can't hear, feel, or smell what's going on in the engine room from up there.* If we were ever*in doubt about this policy before, the day we averted a boat fire by being at the lower helm instead of the upper helm convinced us once and for all to never drive a boat -- any boat--- from a flying bridge.* And we never will.

-- Edited by Marin on Tuesday 25th of January 2011 07:39:25 PM

I don't have a lower helm and doubt I would use it here in FL even if I did. But I understand your reasoning. The Borel alarms are suppose to give advance warning of a raw water system failure something that would probably not give much advance warning in terms of hear, smell or feel depending of course on the failure.Concerning the engine alarms, perhaps someone has a suggestion for a louder alarm.


My diesel tank fill and water fill are about 36" apart on the port side.

*

 

[timjet]

A quick check found these:http://www.iboats.com/SeaDog-Slotted-Colored-Deck-Fill-Caps/dm/cart_id.073973750--session_id.180417417--view_id.39782


http://www.iboats.com/Perko-Fill-With-Color-Coded-Inserts/dm/cart_id.073973750--session_id.180417417--view_id.341796


I think I might just take the caps I have, use a soft wire bush to clean them, prime them and paint. Don't know if the paint will last.

 

[healhustler]

I don't remember what thread it was, but there was a great conversation somewhere about cameras in engine rooms. *I also have my doubts with regard to alarms and such. *For one thing, I don't hear as well as I used to. *For another thing, my Krogen Manatee is like silk when at the helm, and installing a camera system may be what I need to keep an eye on my vital areas, especially the bilge. *I'm thinking four cameras should do it.

I also love the idea about color coded caps for water, fuel and pump-out. *Trouble is remembering the color. *I don't remember as well as I used to either.

 

[timjet]

Marin wrote:
This is one reason we never drive the boat from the upper helm.* Can't hear, feel, or smell what's going on in the engine room from up there.* If we were ever*in doubt about this policy before, the day we averted a boat fire by being at the lower helm instead of the upper helm convinced us once and for all to never drive a boat -- any boat--- from a flying bridge.* And we never will.

-- Edited by Marin on Tuesday 25th of January 2011 07:39:25 PM

This reminds me of a story about the owner of a planning 50 ft ish boat who hired a captain to move his boat up the ICW to his home port. A week or so before their voyage a barge had taken out a day maker along a narrow section of the ICW in North Carolina. The barge did not report the incident but a sailor reported the missing day marker to the CG 3 days later. The CG did not post the report or issue a pan pan.*
Forward a week later to the 50 ft planning boat. They're cruising at about 25 kts with the hired capt at the helm and suddenly the boat shifts to the port and a moment later the port engine revs uncontrollable and quits. The capt throttles back without a clue as to what has happened. He starts down to the salon from the fly bridge and on the way notices the boat staring to list. Looks down into the salon and sees the engine in the salon where the couch was *and water almost covering the engine. He has no idea what has happened but is very quickly coming to the realization that the boat is sinking. Long story short, the boat hit the remainder of the day marker that the barge had taken out a week before. The day marker pole entered the hull I believe just fwd of the engine. The engine was damaged and pulled itself out of its mounts and ended up at about a 45 deg angle to the horizontal. This resulted in another hole in the vicinity of the stuffing box.


The Capt tells the owner to abandon ship and proceeds to the swim platform to release the dingy. He finds the platform under water but is able to release the dingy. He turns to find the owner unable to exit the helm due to water coming up the stair to the helm. Apparently the owner did not want to exit to the sun deck fearing he would be trapped under the sun deck roof by the rapidly sinking boat.


The Capt jumps in the dingy as the fly bridge is now mostly under water. He yells to the owner to jump out the side between the bimini*supports as the boat completely sinks. The capt paddles the dink over to the disappearing fly bridge and tries to grab the owner but misses. A moment later the owner successfully escapes thru the bimini*supports and is pulled aboard the dink.


It is determined later that the whole incident from collision with the submerged remainder of the day marker and the boat being completely underwater took 120 seconds. The capt did have a grab bag and did get it aboard the dink which included a VHF. He calls the CG because the owner is showing signs of hypothermia and requests a helicopter evac. The CG refuses to help without the capt supplying*identifying*information which apparently the owner is unable to provide due to his rapidly*deteriorating condition. 30 min after the sinking a fishing boat rescues our hero's and all is well.


The CG is later sued successfully by the insurance company for not issuing a notice to mariners or pan pan for the missing day marker.


After reading this story my wife and I have agreed to never stay in the salon area with the boat on plane.


When interviewed the Capt said he will now include his wallet and credit card in the grab bag. Except for the kindness of strangers they would have had no place to stay or food to eat after the fishing boat deposited them ashore. The owner was from the UK.

 

[markpierce]

timjet wrote:


Marin wrote:
*...* They're cruising at about 25 kts with the hired capt at the helm and suddenly the boat shifts ...

Perhaps one advantage of a trawler is that one can't*cruise faster than 8 knots.* Isn't that something like 1/6th the energy of 25 knots?

*

 

[Woodsong]

Timjet-
that is a harrowing tale. The moral of the story I got out of that tale is this: don't do 25 knots in unfamiliar waters. I wonder what it would do to a trawler bumping into it at 8 knots though- possibly still put a hole into the bottom but I would imagine it would be a LOT smaller of a hole and provide more time to react.

 

[Tonic]

My water, fuel and waste caps have those names cast into them. Is that not the norm?

I really don't know if I have audible engine low oil pressure and high coolant temp alarms on my '96 John Deeres. Obviously, I have gauges but how/where would one check for alarms? Excuse my ignorance, but is the alarm I get when I stop the engines an oil pressure alarm?

 

[markpierce]

Tonic wrote:

I really don't know if I have audible engine low oil pressure and high coolant temp alarms on my '96 John Deeres. Obviously, I have gauges but how/where would one check for alarms? Excuse my ignorance, but is the alarm I get when I stop the engines an oil pressure alarm?

My John Deere (2010) engine panel for a single engine*includes "alarm" lights and an audible alarm.* So, what does your panel look like?* Maybe you should upgrade your panel?

*


-- Edited by markpierce on Wednesday 26th of January 2011 12:34:57 AM

 

[Marin]

Old Stone wrote:
Good idea about the color coding. Great idea for those of us who sometimes do get confused!

I'm getting the impression from this thread that a lot of boats don't have their water, fuel, and waste caps labled.* The four bronze fuel-fill caps on our GB have the word "Diesel" engraved in them in pretty large letters..* The two bronze water fill caps have "Water" engraved in them.* The two waste pumpout caps don't have anything engraved in them but they're in the side of the hull so they're pretty hard to confuse with anything else.

*

 

[timjet]

Tonic wrote:

My water, fuel and waste caps have those names cast into them. Is that not the norm?

I really don't know if I have audible engine low oil pressure and high coolant temp alarms on my '96 John Deeres. Obviously, I have gauges but how/where would one check for alarms? Excuse my ignorance, but is the alarm I get when I stop the engines an oil pressure alarm?

My caps do have the*appropriate*names engraved on them. The color coding idea is just another way of providing a positive match between the fluid going in or out and it's proper fluid. Kinda like a seat belt in your car.*It may stop a well meaning friend from servicing the wrong hole.


More than likely the alarm you're hearing when you shut down is the low oil pressure alarm, and provides a test to make sure it's working.

 

[timjet]

Woodsong wrote:

Timjet-
that is a harrowing tale. The moral of the story I got out of that tale is this: don't do 25 knots in unfamiliar waters. I wonder what it would do to a trawler bumping into it at 8 knots though- possibly still put a hole into the bottom but I would imagine it would be a LOT smaller of a hole and provide more time to react.

After I posted this story, I found the original and re-read it. There are a couple of*inconsistencies, like the first mate was not the owner as I had mentioned, but the story for the most part is correct. The first mate actually went underwater with the boat for about 15 seconds before he was able to make his way out through the*Bimini*supports.*
After reading this story I came away with perhaps a different perspective. Certainly not cruising at planning speed in unfamiliar territory would have resulted in not such a dramatic tale, but for most planning boat owners that's not practical. Besides a familiar territory can become unfamiliar when someone or something changes the bottom contour as was the case here.


I came away with the lesson that things can go very wrong very quickly and as you increase speed the time factor compresses.
Also consider this statement from the author which can be applied to virtual any emergency situation:*"Mental confusion abounds, and trying to make any sense out of this situation only slows our decision process"


So having a plan like always wearing your inflatable PFD especially above hull speeds,
the location of your grab bag and it's contents and going over with your first mate emergency exits are some of the lessons I learned from this.*

*

 

[Moonstruck]

When cruising the ICW and it seems a marker is missing, STOP.* It probably is.* Sort out the situation before proceeding.* Tows take out markers on a fairly regular basis.* You may be the first on the scene.* That has happened to me.

Before the days of chart plotters, we were delivering a boat from Clearwater FL to Orange Beach, AL.* It had been a long trip on a slow boat.* We were following a tow westward and meeting a tow*near our turn into St. John's Bayou at marker #59 I believe.* The two tows meeting in the turn pushed the east bound tow out of shape.* It was dark and raining.* We couldn't see landmarks and didn't have radar.* Not seeing our marker, we followed the tow ahead.* It looked like we were at the entrance to Perdido Bay which was too far.* We turned around to search for our marker.* No where*to be found.* I said it should be here, shined the* spot light into the water on the starboard side.* There it was just under*the surface of the clear, incoming tide.* The reflector was still shining.* The meeting tow had pushed it over.

In June of 2010, we had to stop because of a missing marker in Pine Island Sound.* While we were sorting it out, I noticed a SeaTow vessel lurking behind a nearby island.* Hmmm, think he may have removed a marker on a slow day?

The following is my late wife following the paper chart while I followed the chart plotter.

*

-- Edited by Moonstruck on Wednesday 26th of January 2011 06:53:18 AM

 

[jleonard]

"I think I might just take the caps I have, use a soft wire bush to clean them, prime them and paint. Don't know if the paint will last."


If the existing caps have "FUEL", etc engraved or stamped in the surface, or if they have a slot or holes for a tool, then color paint those areas and the paint*should last and be visible.

 

[FF]

My fuel caps are below 8 inch bronze deck plates.

The water fill is on top of the water tanks , mounted visibly on the after work deck,

The waste is labeled .

Not much chance of a screw up.

 

[Egregious]

Mine are all labeled/engraved as well, but I still like the idea of color coding.* Like the way it is easier to read an analog clock than a digital one.* My brain understands a symbol faster than text.* On my boat the fresh water is all the way aft and diesel/waste amidships.* About the only way to screw up would be to pump diesel into the holding tank.

That said for me the greater fear is the dock attendant handing me the wrong fuel, and me mindlessly filling up.* More than once I've been about 50 gallons into a fill-up, and a wave of fear comes over me as*I asked the attendant, "This IS diesel, right?"* You can pump gas into a diesel tank but not vice-versa since the nozzle would be too big.*

Yeah I know, gas smells and looks different, and diesel should have a green handle...* But still.

Once chartered a boat that the previous charter had pumped some diesel into the fresh water.* Not good, and I'll never charter from that outfit again.

 

[JD]

timjet wrote:


Woodsong wrote:

Timjet-
that is a harrowing tale. The moral of the story I got out of that tale is this: don't do 25 knots in unfamiliar waters. I wonder what it would do to a trawler bumping into it at 8 knots though- possibly still put a hole into the bottom but I would imagine it would be a LOT smaller of a hole and provide more time to react.

After I posted this story, I found the original and re-read it. There are a couple of*inconsistencies, like the first mate was not the owner as I had mentioned, but the story for the most part is correct. The first mate actually went underwater with the boat for about 15 seconds before he was able to make his way out through the*Bimini*supports.*
After reading this story I came away with perhaps a different perspective. Certainly not cruising at planning speed in unfamiliar territory would have resulted in not such a dramatic tale, but for most planning boat owners that's not practical. Besides a familiar territory can become unfamiliar when someone or something changes the bottom contour as was the case here.


I came away with the lesson that things can go very wrong very quickly and as you increase speed the time factor compresses.
Also consider this statement from the author which can be applied to virtual any emergency situation:*"Mental confusion abounds, and trying to make any sense out of this situation only slows our decision process"


So having a plan like always wearing your inflatable PFD especially above hull speeds,
the location of your grab bag and it's contents and going over with your first mate emergency exits are some of the lessons I learned from this.*



Timjet*

There are so many inconsistencies with the story you quoted that they are to many to address all of them.* A few of facts that were different from the statements*that were in the original story were,* The boat sunk in less than 12 feet of water so all of the stuff about being drug under was bogus.* The marker had been reported to the Coast Guard and there was a floater.* That part of the ICW is less than 10" deep in many places and only a fool would run that close to the markers at that speed.* The Capt said he was in contact with USCG*Station Norfolk*on a hand held.* He could not have been because it is 40+ miles away by way*the Crow Flies and Hobucken is closer but out of range for*of a*hand held also.* The whole story was written to make a faulty Capt seem not to be at fault.

I do agree with the conclusions that you drew no matter how bad the story that you drew them from was.

I'm not pointing this out to make you look bad but because this story surfaced just this past fall*(2010) as an e-mail and was passed around our marina as if it was a fact and it had just happened.* I have several folks that I know that are at the USCG station in Hobucken and some have been there for several years , no one remembered the incident.* Upon investigation it was learned that it happened over four years ago and the facts are way*different than were reported in the story by a long shot.

Thus my only reason for bringing it up.

 

[JD]

Moonstruck wrote:

When cruising the ICW and it seems a marker is missing, STOP.* It probably is.* Sort out the situation before proceeding.* Tows take out markers on a fairly regular basis.* You may be the first on the scene.* That has happened to me.

Before the days of chart plotters, we were delivering a boat from Clearwater FL to Orange Beach, AL.* It had been a long trip on a slow boat.* We were following a tow westward and meeting a tow*near our turn into St. John's Bayou at marker #59 I believe.* The two tows meeting in the turn pushed the east bound tow out of shape.* It was dark and raining.* We couldn't see landmarks and didn't have radar.* Not seeing our marker, we followed the tow ahead.* It looked like we were at the entrance to Perdido Bay which was too far.* We turned around to search for our marker.* No where*to be found.* I said it should be here, shined the* spot light into the water on the starboard side.* There it was just under*the surface of the clear, incoming tide.* The reflector was still shining.* The meeting tow had pushed it over.

In June of 2010, we had to stop because of a missing marker in Pine Island Sound.* While we were sorting it out, I noticed a SeaTow vessel lurking behind a nearby island.* Hmmm, think he may have removed a marker on a slow day?

The following is my late wife following the paper chart while I followed the chart plotter.

*

-- Edited by Moonstruck on Wednesday 26th of January 2011 06:53:18 AM

Don,

After seeing your post here*I do remember seeing a previous post of yours with the same picture of your late wife.

I feel very bad that I had not remembered that posting when I made my comments to you about the Health Care bill.

Again I'm sorry for your loss.

*

 

[Egregious]

I thought I read this story in Seaworthy magazine...* The thing BoatUS sends you if you use their insurance (I don't any more).* Could have been some other mag though...* I seem to remember reading it while in "the library" so I don't think it was online when I read it.

I think their point was about the importance of a ditch bag.*

 

[Woodsong]

Old Stone wrote:

Healhustler - Here is the engine room camera I am most considering at present. It can be a long search to find the right one..........http://www.harborfreight.com/weatherproof-color-security-camera-with-night-vision-95914.html

Here is the thread you mentioned about the subject in general.........
http://www.trawlerforum.com/index.spark?aBID=115492&p=3&topicID=38219643

I am going to be doing about a 125 mile run on our trawler next weekend (weather permitting!!) which is the longest trip we've done on her yet. *I like to keep things simple and cheap. *Since I am running my macbook/laptop for my GPS and I already have a webcam that I don't use, I am going to buy a USB extension cable and just mount the webcam in my engine room. *This will allow me to shrink the cam screen into the corner of my laptop screen so I can watch the GPS and the cam at the same time. *Not the most high tech solution but it "should" work and should cost me less than $50 if I didn't have the cam already so really it should only cost $20 or so for the extension cable.

 

[Woodsong]

Carl,
We're taking her 125 miles (through 2 locks) down the river to get her topsides painted (see my painting topsides thread in the General Maint. section). Should be a fun trip- doing it with our 8 year old son and my dad so I am looking forward to it.
I'll report back on the cam set up. Only reason it would not work I think is if the vibration works the cable connections loose but I can always tape them if need be and I'll just run the USB cable from lower helm to the engine room. The cam I have has built in LED lights to help brighten things up but will also just leave the engine room lights on.
My biggest question is where to mount it. Options are either A) pointing towards engine and transmission, B) pointing towards the lowest point of the bilge where ALL water collects if there should ever be any type of leak. If I can figure out how to run 2 cams at once that would be perfect but as it sits now I am leaning towards pointing it towards the lowest point in the bilge for water detection (though I am installing a high water alarm this week too prior to the trip!) as it is harder to see that location but I can always just lift an engine hatch in the sole behind the lower helm to check the engine itself.

 

[Pineapple Girl]

Ok I've recovered enough from reading Timjets story and the subsequent comments on it to make a comment on the original question of color coding caps.*

One of our good friends had a catalina 36 for many years.* He sold it to my brother in law and bought a Catalina 42.* The first time he needed to fill it with fresh water he unscrewed the cap that was the water*fill location on the 36 and proceeded to fill the tank with water.* After a few minutes his wife came out and asked what he was doing.* He told her and she said wasn't that great that the fill was in the same place it was on the old boat.* This caused him to take pause and actually look at the cap he'd unscrewed, which was clearly labeled "Diesel."*

Matt and I always triple check the caps whenever we pump out or put in diesel.* Our water fill is on the transom and not in a position to be confused with anything else.* I am fine with the caps we have, which are clearly labeled with engraved lettering.

*

 

[Carey]

Pineapple Girl wrote:
*

Ok I've recovered enough from reading Timjets story and the subsequent comments on it to make a comment on the original question of color coding caps.*

One of our good friends had a catalina 36 for many years.* He sold it to my brother in law and bought a Catalina 42.* The first time he needed to fill it with fresh water he unscrewed the cap that was the water*fill location on the 36 and proceeded to fill the tank with water.* After a few minutes his wife came out and asked what he was doing.* He told her and she said wasn't that great that the fill was in the same place it was on the old boat.* This caused him to take pause and actually look at the cap he'd unscrewed, which was clearly labeled "Diesel."*

Matt and I always triple check the caps whenever we pump out or put in diesel.* Our water fill is on the transom and not in a position to be confused with anything else.* I am fine with the caps we have, which are clearly labeled with engraved lettering.

OUCH!!! And then there are things over which we have no control.My cousin and her husband received their new sailboat many years ago, and eager to set out, filled all the tanks. First they filled with diesel, and when they arrived at their slip, they topped off the water. The next time they went to start, it wouldn't. Turns out, that the manufacturer had labeled the fills backward. Diesel in the water, and water in the diesel.*

*

 

[Moonstruck]

Don,

After seeing your post here*I do remember seeing a previous post of yours with the same picture of your late wife.

I feel very bad that I had not remembered that posting when I made my comments to you about the Health Care bill.

Again I'm sorry for your loss.I appreiate your comment, JD.* No harm done.* That picture was made less than a month of her passing.* We were still cruising as we had done for 34 of our 44 years.* She was a great first mate.

*

 

[skipperdude]

Woodsong wrote:



I am going to be doing about a 125 mile run on our trawler next weekend (weather permitting!!) which is the longest trip we've done on her yet. *I like to keep things simple and cheap. *Since I am running my macbook/laptop for my GPS and I already have a webcam that I don't use, I am going to buy a USB extension cable and just mount the webcam in my engine room. *This will allow me to shrink the cam screen into the corner of my laptop screen so I can watch the GPS and the cam at the same time. *Not the most high tech solution but it "should" work and should cost me less than $50 if I didn't have the cam already so really it should only cost $20 or so for the extension cable.

The reason I went to the Seattle boat show was for a new GPS.
*I picked up a Garmin 4208 it has a feed for two cameras as well as a video out.

The plan is to hook up to a 19" computer monitor and be able to project the*screen from the GPS onto the monitor.

All I need is a 12 volt monitor (I only have a small inverter and don't really want to invest in a larger one.)* and a couple of cameras. One for the ER the other for a back up camera.*

I also would like to find a TV mount that will fold up as I want to mount it on the overhead and be able to fold it up when not in use.
I haven't found one of these yet.

I sure liked the one Marin has on his helm I believe he said it was custom made.

If anyone has seen anything like what I am looking for. Please post a link.

SD

 

[Marin]

skipperdude wrote:I sure liked the one Marin has on his helm I believe he said it was custom made.

I have no idea who made it or when, but it's not anything American Marine ever supplied.* The radar display hinges up into a fully enclosed wood box mounted inside the flying bridge console.* When it was built, radar displays were still the relatively small round CRT type that required a hood to see during daylight.* The unit that was there when we bought the boat was a Raytheon 2600.

Radar displays even for smaller boats have since become much larger with LCD screens and whatnot.* Since we wanted to continue to use this mount for the radar, when we bought a new one the mount's width dictated that we buy the 7" Furuno NavNet display instead of the 10" which we would have preferred.* Mounted very close to the helmsman as it is, the 7" display has not proven to be a problem, but we still would have preferred the 10" display.* So if you make something like this, be sure to size it for the largest display you thnk you might put up there.

*


-- Edited by Marin on Wednesday 26th of January 2011 03:10:43 PM

 

[Woodsong]

That drop down mount for a GPS or radar/TV screen would be very easy to build out of wood and some simple hardware if you have enough room between the headliner and cabin roof. I only have about 3" between the headliner and the cabin roof though.

 

[Marin]

Our mount does not fit into the space between the headliner and cabin overhead.* Like your boat, our boat has only a few inches between the headliner and the underside of the cabin overhead.* The radar recess goes right up through the cabin overhead into a box mounted on the flying bridge sole under the instrument console. So whoever built it cut a rectangular hole in the cabin overhead itself.* The edge of the hole is trimmed with teak and the box framing eliminates any gaps between the teak frame in the overhead and the inside of the box itself.* They also did some nice teak trim and fill work in the center teak valance to provide the clearance for the mount as it hinges down.* It's a very well done piece of cabinet work.






-- Edited by Marin on Wednesday 26th of January 2011 03:18:51 PM