Par Electric-ITT, Jabasco -no flush

[Fighterpilot]

Shake down cruise yesterday with family. I checked the toilet an thought it worked at the dock. Pushed the button, water came in, macerator roared, and water went out. Yesterday, daughter pushed the button, water came in, macerator roared but the water didn't go out. Bummer. Holding tank not full. Today, water gone. Guess it gradually leaked out into holding tank. A blockage comes to mind in the hose going to the holding tank. Went on line and got manual. It shows a type of "flapper valve" could that be the problem. Believe the toilet is about the same level as the holding tank--maybe a few inches higher so not sure if getting back flow, but doubt it as you will see in next paragraph.

*When I bought the boat holding tank was reported as being full. I bought macerator pump and hooked to waste port on the deck and pumped 70 gal. from a 35 gal. holding tank. Finally determined I was pulling sea water thru the system. I found a plugged holding tank vent line, got it opened,*and closed the thru hull. Emptied the tank than OK. Know it was empty because in messing with the holding tank vent line I made the fitting leak so had to replace the tank fitting.

With the holding tank vent line open macerator should pump to holding tank, unless internal valveing messed up or there is an obstruction of some sort, valveing , or other debris in the system? Right. Where do I start? Ensure line to holding tank is open first, than replace the toilet?

Previous owner had notice printed that suggested not to put any paper in toilet. He had a can with a lid on it for paper. Maybe he was having trouble with it. Anyway that isn't acceptable to my family so I have got to fix it. This takes on the same priority as the slipping transmission as far as they are concerned. Not going anyplace until both are fixed. Thanks for your help.

 

[HeadMistress]

I'm guessing that, at the very least, the discharge impeller has failed...and who knows what else...'cuz a Jabsco toilet that has the PAR brand name on it has to be more than 20 years old! (If the boat isn't that old, there's no guarantee that PO didn't think he'd found a real bargain on eBAy...that happens a lot!). You can spend the money for a rebuild kit (all the rubber parts, gaskets, valves etc) that may or may not solve your problem....or for a bit more you can upgrade to a 21st century toilet that will use half the power, 1/3 the amount of flush water and make 1/4 of the noise.

I just GOTTA ask...you said, " bought macerator pump and hooked to waste port on the deck and pumped 70 gal. from a 35 gal. holding tank."

Where exactly did it all go???

Happy New Year, y'all!


-- Edited by HeadMistress on Saturday 31st of December 2011 07:11:27 PM

 

[Fighterpilot]

I have a RV portable holding tank which I use to empty the boat holding tank. I bought a macerator pump and hook to the waste pump out fitting and pump to the holding tank on the dock. Works great. Did the same on my previous two boats. Made two trips to my house septic system and than figured out something wasn't right. The last one was just sea water which was a clue.

The boat is 1983 Wellcraft-Californian so it is more than 20 years old, unless owner replaced it sometime in the past. Will check to make sure discharge line isn't pluged up but than will take your suggestion and go shopping. Any suggestions for a replacement? Would like to use existing plumbing.

Appreciate the response. Thanks

 

[HopCar]

Is your bowl in good shape? If so you don't need a complete new toilet. You can just buy a new base / motor pump assembly. You have at least two choices, the Raritan Sea Era conversion kit or a new Jabsco.
The Raritan is quieter because it uses a diaphram pump for the intake side. The Jabsco uses a rubber impeller type intake pump. The intake and discharge pumps on the Raritan are on oposite ends of the motor. This eliminates a minor problem with the Jabsco. The intake and discharge pumps are on the same shaft seperated by a seal. If the seal leaks the Jabsco can recurcalate small amounts of black water to the bowl. If the seal on the Raritan leaks I guess it would come out onto the head floor. With the Raritan you also have the option of going with a freshwater flush or a toilet that you can select a salt or fresh water flush.
The Jabsco is cheaper. In fact you can probably reuse your base and just buy the motor pump assembly. I don't think it's as bad as Peggy is about to tell you but the Raritan is probably a better design.
Which ever you choose, I'd love to quote you. I have the Jabsco on my website. Sorry I haven't got the Raritan up yet but I can give it to you at a good price on it. Email me at (hopcar@bellsouth.net)

http://www.raritaneng.com/products/toilets/electric/sea_era_conversion_kit.html

http://www.hopkins-carter.com/ja12vtomoas3.html

 

[FF]

IF you replace the head ,maybe its time for a hand job and getting rid of another electric maint item and noise source.

My vote? the Grocco "K".

Few repairs per decade.

 

[koliver]

I have a pair of the old PAR manual toilets on my boat. There was a new, still in the box conversion to electric when I bought the boat. I put it in, but took it out again within a month, as it was far too noisy for night time use. Never looked back. The manual toilets have consumed one rebuild kit in 18 yrs, just because of the date not because they really needed any repairs.
You can return yours to manual operation easily, and have better performance, at very low cost.

 

[Fighterpilot]

Not sure how I replumb the line to the holding tank with out tearing up the floor. What size hose , ID, do you need for a manual toilet? Mine, with the macerator feeding it is just a little over an inch. I know that won't work for a manual system.

 

[HeadMistress]

Jabsco is the only toilet mfr who uses a 1" discharge line...although they finally began offering a choice of 1" or the standard 1.5" that every other toilet mfr uses, which is also the standard holding tank inlet and discharge size.

Keith I wouldn't blame you if threw the electric conversion for ANY manual over the side in deep water...'cuz the best of 'em only turn a good manual toilet into the poorest excuse for an electric toilet. The Jabsco 29200 conversion is the only one that isn't just an electric motor that does nothing more than replace the pump HANDLE, but it's the worst of the lot because it chokes on just about anything but urine, makes enough noise to wake the dead, draws nearly twice the amperage of any other macerating electric toilet made in the last decade, but costs more than the best one. However...that's no reason to revert to a manual toilet.

Practical Sailor rated the Raritan SeaEra http://www.raritaneng.com/products/toilets/electric/sea_era.html "best budget buy" in their comparison of macerating electric toilets last February...the conversion http://www.raritaneng.com/products/toilets/electric/sea_era_conversion_kit.html saves money by allowing you to keep your existing bowl seat and lid. It uses a 1.5" hoses.

If your hoses are anywhere close to 10 years old or older, they should be replaced...10 years is about the useful life of any hose--sanitation, fuel, exhaust too...'cuz hoses dry out and become hard and brittle, prone to cracking when they get old. Replumbing isn't all that hard to do and shouldn't require tearing anything up. I'd bet real money that it's been done at least once by now, 'cuz the Wellcraft OEM installed hoses were really susceptible to odor permeation...you would be able to stay on the boat if they were original.

 

[chc]

FP;
On my Californian, the line runs under the sink cabinet, under the shower stall, forward of the ER bulkhead, then thru that bulkhead to the holding tank. Piece of cake; only takes 3 guys, 1/2 gallon of dish soap, and patience. Lots of pushing, pulling, and vocabulary expansion. However, you don't have to pull up the floor! Good news is that you may have enough room to make a larger hole if needed with a Dremel. Been there, done that; oughta be a blast in Florida. T-28 must have been a neat ride. Good luck

 

[HopCar]

Fighterpilot, Your Jabsco uses a 1" inside diameter discharge hose. If changing to an 1-1/2" hose is a problem, then don't get a manual toilet. If you decide to change your hose to 1-1/2" then a Groco Model K or a Raritan PHII are your best choices in a manual toilet. The Groco K is a very well made bronze toilet and is very expensive. I have a Groco K on my boat that is more than twenty years old. The Raritan PHII is probably the best plastic hand toilet, just don't put the electric conversion on it. If you don't want to change the hose size then stick with an electric. Both the Jabsco and the Raritan Sea Era will accept the 1" discharge hose. The Sea Era will also accept a 1-1/2" hose. The Jabsco comes with an adapter to allow you to hook it to 1-1/2" hose.

Peggy, I was talking to one of the folks at Raritan about the Sea Era. He told me that they designed it specifically to compete with the Jabsco toilet. In fact the name for the design project was Beat It, spelled Beat ITT.

 

[Fighterpilot]

Chc, your description of the path for your hose would describe mine as well. I believe it has been replaced since it is still flexible, and appears to be a heavy rubber coated hose, red in color. Don't know that the original was. If I have to replace the toilet or even the macerator head will give consideration to manual and make an attempt to replace the hose. Assume you stayed with original size hose, just pulled a new one. Did you attach the new one to the old one somehow, and than pull it thru? With larger hose I would also have to change holding tank fitting to larger diameter.

HeadMistress, I assume you mean "wouldn't" vice "would be able to stay on the boat" if hose original. Such is not the case so guess it has been replaced, at least once.

 

[chc]

FP; I replaced the red rubber hose in mine with the smooth white type; supposed to be the best sanitation hose. Sorry, but I can't remember the name; I'd guess either Triton or Sealand; pretty heavy duty stuff. I essentially wired one end of the new hose to the departing end of the old hose w/arcft safety wire & tape(over the seam), soaped it all down as we went & started pushing & pulling. Actually did take 3 of us; one in the head; 2 in the ER or mid cabin, depending on hose position. Wasn't fun, but certainly doable. I did not change hose size.

 

[koliver]

chc
You didn't mention it, but I assume your project also required more than a 6 pac of an adult beverage. I know that my holding tank hookup did. I even had to specially fabricate a tapered connector to accomplish teh transition from one hose size to another. Luckily, I cruse with guys with fully equipped boats, including a litlle lathe.
Peggy:
You were peeking. I didn't know anyone saw the electric conversion go over the side in deep water. Your description of its performance is right on. Since I had the manual toilet, no $ was spent on converting back to it. If it ever fails, I will go look at the price of a modern electric, but till then, I will continue to use the manual version.

 

[chc]

Actually we were all so soaped up from dealing with the hose that we couldn't hold onto anything resembling a can 'til much later. Once we got enough manpower on the project things went well. Celebration went well also. Even better, things have flowed well ever since. Since our primary cruising is in bay, river, & inshore waters we also got rid of the macerator pump that the PO had installed for overboard pump out. In it's place I rigged a PVC pipe to enable us to avoid the sh.. shower one gets while opening the deck pumpout fitting with a fuuulll tank. It is valved so that I can connect the suckout hose to an adaptor, then pumpout. In an absolute emergency, I have a Whale manual pump that can double as a bige pump or an overboard discharge using the same rig. If I had known boats were so much fun, I'd have started earlier!

 

[psneeld]

Until I figured out how I was going to remodel my forward head...I converted my manual flush to electric by removing the hand*pump and*installed a cover plate. Then I removed the cleanout plug on the end of the lower head pipe and installed a PVC 90 degree threaded 1 1/2" hose barb.Then I connected the barb to a 69 dollar macerator which I mounted*under the plywood the head sits on. Lastly installed a sinple 12v pushbutton switch on the side of the sink cabinet.* To fluch I tell people to use a cup of water or the shower wand if stuff is clinging to the bowl.

Total cost around 85 dollars and much simpler to use than the manual for guests...plus MUCH quieter than usual electric conversions and easier to work on.* If I want to switch back I can..If I want to sell the parts when I remodel I can.

When it comes to plumbing on a boat, I tend*think outside the box because the marine business seems to be stuck in the stone age when it comes to heads and most plumbing products.* My master head has already been switched to a great RV toilet.* Few moving parts and virtually silent...best I've ever seen on a boat for around $200 (all parts all the way to holding tank)*installed by me...few parts...main working part can be replaced by any common macerator*pump or a manual whale hand pump with 1 1/2" nipples.

 

[chc]

Scott

Don't happen to remember the name or model do you?

 

[psneeld]

chc wrote:
Scott

Don't happen to remember the name or model do you?

*Model of what?* Not being a smarta**...just not sure what product I mentioned you are interested in.*

If you want to...feel free to call me at 609-780-2728 and we can discuss and I'll forward pics if you need.