Paravane

[septembre]

I want to install paravane on my trawler, does anyone have any info for this.
My next trip will be Montreal,Canada to Puerto Rico and i think i will appreciate paravane
for that trip.

 

[skipperdude]

What do you want to know?

I have them on my boat.

SD

 

[markpierce]

septembre wrote:

I want to install paravane on my trawler, does anyone have any info for this.

What kind of paravane?* Do you have mines needing clearing from your cruising waters?

*

 

[septembre]

I try to find a website , where i could find any spec and size to build these paravane,regarding the size of the boat. It should not be very complicate to build.

-- Edited by septembre on Thursday 17th of March 2011 06:07:42 PM

 

[Nomad Willy]

septembre,
1.*** Kolstrand Marine Supply. 800 334 3224 or www.kolstrand.com
2.*** Voyaging Under Power by Robert Beebe.
3.*** Passage Maker Magazine December 2001.
Plan on mounting them more aft than fwd.

-- Edited by nomadwilly on Thursday 17th of March 2011 06:32:06 PM

 

[Delfin]

Claude, Redden Marine in Bellingham, Washington are well experienced in sizing paravanes.* They are not hard to build, but the rigging requirements are not trivial and their use is not without disadvantages.*

This document from Transport Canada was one I considered before electing active fins a few years ago.

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/marinesafety/bulletins-2000-15-eng.htm

I hope that helps.

 

[markpierce]

Mike wrote:

What kind of paravane?* Do you have mines needing clearing from your cruising waters?

markpierce

Tell me Mark, what do you think your above quoted post adds to the discussion?

Paravanes in the marine context can be for many varied purposes.* Is the reader expected to correctly presume that the OP was speaking of stabilizers?

*

 

[Rob]

Our boat a Willard 40 Pilot House is set up with Paravanes. Do I like them? The Answer would have to be yes. Do I dislike them? The answer would have to be yes. They really do a wonderful job when in rough water as well as when anchored in rollie water. I have had a fair amount of experience using the Paravanes over the years including a couple of crossings of the Gulf of Alaska, in fact I'd say that we have used themabout 40% of the time. When running with your arms out all of a sudden your vessel will become 35-40 foot wide instead of 13-14 feet. This can be a bit unnerving when running amongst debris in the water such a kelp and logs. When deploying your Paravanes I can not stress that there are some very serious potentials for injury or death! Think about getting wrapped up in one of the lines. Then there is that job of retrieving the Fish. The boat has to be standing still with very little wave action or you will never be able to manually pull them up. Once you get them over the rails you are dealing with some very heavy and awkward gear. Last year I smacked both of my shines with the fish. Hurt like hell,*but no real injury. Right now I'm 60 years old, will I be able to handle these things when I'm 70? I doubt it. But right now I have on my boat and wouldn't think of owning a 40 foot Willard without them. They look pretty neat on my boat! I think that you would be much happier to have active fins or roll chocks installed on your boat. Also when you go to sell your boat the Paravanes will turn more people away then they will attract.

Rob & Anne
"Lady Anne" Willard 40 PH
La Conner, WA/Girdwood, AK

 

[septembre]

So Mark, you were the only one that was thinking something else than stab.and i am sure you are having a problem...lol.

keep, enjoying ,your boating in your area....sic.


-- Edited by septembre on Thursday 17th of March 2011 08:11:50 PM

-- Edited by septembre on Thursday 17th of March 2011 08:15:50 PM

 

[Larry M]

Get hold of a naval architect who has designed paravanes. The loading is incredible and their placement and design is critical.

We wouldn't leave home with out them.* They're in the water*75+% of the time.* It's sort of like reefing the main, if you talk or are thinking about deploying them,*they're in the water.* We love em.

-- Edited by Larry M on Thursday 17th of March 2011 08:52:52 PM

 

[Daddyo]

Claude,
I wonder if your boat is heavy enough for the rigging and it's weight aloft? You might be better of with a larger engine to blast through weather windows. As you know I love your boat but is guess a naval architect could answer the conjecture. Just don't mess with the lines on that girl!!!

 

[markpierce]

Message deleted.* Sending a PM instead.


-- Edited by markpierce on Thursday 17th of March 2011 10:44:02 PM

 

[Tidahapah]

Claude,
At 32 ft I wouldn't be rushing out to install paravanes on your boat.
A soft option may be a pair of smaller arms with plates or drogues for at rest stabilisation. This is what I have installed on my 48 ft displacement cruiser.
I have some drawings and written material on paravanes if I can dig it up I will PM you with it.
Benn

 

[markpierce]

Rob wrote:

...*Do I dislike them? The answer would have to be yes.*... When running with your arms out all of a sudden your vessel will become 35-40 foot wide instead of 13-14 feet. This can be a bit unnerving when running amongst debris in the water such a kelp and logs. When deploying your Paravanes I can not stress that there are some very serious potentials for injury or death! Think about getting wrapped up in one of the lines. Then there is that job of retrieving the Fish. The boat has to be standing still with very little wave action or you will never be able to manually pull them up. Once you get them over the rails you are dealing with some very heavy and awkward gear. Last year I smacked both of my shines with the fish. Hurt like hell,*but no real injury. Right now I'm 60 years old, will I be able to handle these things when I'm 70? I doubt it. ...*

Yikes.* Think I'll stick with steadying sails.

*

 

[FF]

Winches not a hand job makes the whole setup easier to handle.

Phil has a copy of an early article I sent him , perhaps he might post it.

Almost all the tricks and dimensions are shown.

Most of the ocean is big enough that 50 ft wide is not a big deal.

 

[Steve]

Claude, I have sent you a private message re Puerto Rico
Steve W.

 

[Larry M]

FF wrote:

Winches not a hand job makes the whole setup easier to handle.

Phil has a copy of an early article I sent him , perhaps he might post it.

Almost all the tricks and dimensions are shown.

Most of the ocean is big enough that 50 ft wide is not a big deal.

We have a winch on each side to deploy*and retrieve,*simple.**I have never felt they were*anymore dangerous than cruising the oceans.* It's*nice not having to tie everything down and also to*have a cup of coffee*sitting there without having to be in a special drink holder.* They*work at any speed, even at anchor and the birds like them.

 

[Rob]

I'm sure that Larry will agree with me when I say that there are a lot of people out there that are experts on Paravanes whom have never been on a vessel that is equipped with them! I would say that a Krogan and a Willard 40*are two boats that are very well suited to be equipped with paravanes. We have spent many years living and cruising in Alaskan and BC waters where you can see quite a few boats in the 40+ foot range that are equipped with paravanes, mostly 40-42 foot Trollers. I can honestly say that I have never seen any of these guys winch in there paravanes. Granted we are not talking about yachts either, but working boats that use there paravanes or just the arms out*for trolling operations on a daily basis.

 

[Phil Fill]

Is your Eagle soft chine or hard chine?


*
I have some information complied by FF and I that I can email you if you send me you email address.* In the packet a quick explanation of initial and maximum stabilization and passive vs active stabilization is given.* Fish are active.* Ballast, bilge keels, steadying sail are passive. I am going with passive first and then maybe active if needed.* *


*
I have plans of installing fish stabilizers, after negative ballast twin keels are installed to reduce the rolls, low the center of gravity and go a ground.* **We replaced the wood mast last April with a new aluminum mast and increase the stanchion plates to be able to lift the new dink and for future fish stabilizers.* I firmly believe a boat should be stable for the conditions with out active stabilizers.


*
So evaluate what you are trying to achieve and which form a stabilization would be best. *****

 

[hollywood8118]

markpierce wrote:Rob wrote:

...*Do I dislike them? The answer would have to be yes.*... When running with your arms out all of a sudden your vessel will become 35-40 foot wide instead of 13-14 feet. This can be a bit unnerving when running amongst debris in the water such a kelp and logs. When deploying your Paravanes I can not stress that there are some very serious potentials for injury or death! Think about getting wrapped up in one of the lines. Then there is that job of retrieving the Fish. The boat has to be standing still with very little wave action or you will never be able to manually pull them up. Once you get them over the rails you are dealing with some very heavy and awkward gear. Last year I smacked both of my shines with the fish. Hurt like hell,*but no real injury. Right now I'm 60 years old, will I be able to handle these things when I'm 70? I doubt it. ...

Yikes.* Think I'll stick with steadying sails.

The gentleman we bought Volunteer from in 2002 used the ParaVanes on a regular basis... he was 82... yes if you try to lift a 25lb plus weight while hanging over the side of a rolling boat it is a bit tricky... but i did it all the time. The trick is to deploy the units BEFORE you really need them...* being a prudent captain. The Nordhavn's I have seen use a pair of winches and a trip line to allow retreval of the fish while still underway... a really nice feature.*
I will state here that I really liked the vanes and used them a lot... sometimes they bugged me.. I sliced the cable through a log that was 20' long and had fun getting rid of the log in the middle of the Straits of Georgia on a less than pleasant day... but that was the worst... and the benefits WAY outweighed the hassle. I still wonder what would have happened if a active fin had taken a 7.7 kt hit by that log.

Regarding stabilising sails..... they have to be as big at a sail on a sailboat that would weigh the same as your trawler or they are not worth squat.

a couple of thoughts about paravanes...
the loads are huge on the rig... so careful planning of the entire system is vital.. they do drop the boat speed about 1/2 a knot... the rig is there all the time and not out of sight when you are not using it.. but we used the rig to hold the dinghy off the side of the boat and anchor... and the kids used it as a swing when swimming off the side of the boat.
you also need to remember they need to run deep or they will take flight and find a home impaled in the side of the cabin...
HOLLYWOOD

*


-- Edited by hollywood8118 on Friday 18th of March 2011 09:27:19 AM

 

[Rob]

Hollywood is very much correct when he says drop the fish before you need them. We always make it point to have our arms out and in the ready position to drop the equipment in a hurry. It's funny but we always feel that the ride on the boat is a little better with just the arms out, but it is much better when everything is deployed. A good example as to how much the paravanes steady the boat: on crossing the Gulf of Alaska a few times and a couple of thousand miles. When in 7 foot seas the boat only gently rolls to about 8 deg. One night when we were 25 miles off of Cape St. Elias/Kayak Island it was pitch black and the seas were kicked up high. I was on the midnight thirty watch(All night long)My wife was suppose to take the wheel at 4AM but the boat was rolling to 18+ deg in a following sea. I don't kno how big the seas were 'cause it was dark but I can say that the paravanes made for a pretty solid ride. I maintained my watch until the weather calmed and seas lowered, my wife simply didn't need to see that stuff. I simply can't imagine what it would be like*without them. By the way this was a 60+ hour crossing. When we started the seas were 5-7 and the weather looked good for a few days out. Ya just never kno but always need to be ready for foul weather.* Woa! I'm getting excited about bringing a 58 foot seiner down from Ak to Puget Sound on April 1.

 

[markpierce]

hollywood8118 wrote:


Regarding stabilising sails..... they have to be as big at a sail on a sailboat that would weigh the same as your trawler or they are not worth squat.

I don't have any experience concerning steadying sails versus paravane stabilizers*but don't doubt the veracity of your statement, especially with the "handkerchief-sized" sails typically used.* I'm looking forward to testing the effectiveness of my future boat's steadying sails which should often*augment vessel speed rather than hinder it as with paravanes.

*

 

[septembre]

I know few peoples who own trawler with steadying sail....they are not so happy about it.
They are too small,to be efficient the must be as big as the main of a sailboat.
They use more often the mast to hoist the dinghy on the boat.

 

[Larry M]

No one size fits all.**That's why some have both.

 

[septembre]

Larry the picture that you post is not a KK ....(your boat)
It's a Seahorse diesel duck 51' or the 462


-- Edited by septembre on Friday 18th of March 2011 02:53:19 PM

 

[markpierce]

Larry M wrote:

No one size fits all.**That's why some have both.

On that 51-foot Seahorse Diesel Duck, the flopper-stopper option costs $9,500 and the motor-sailer rig $9500 too.* Interestingly, the builder doesn't recommend installing the flopper stopper if the vessel has a sailing rig.

*

 

[Gulf Comanche]

I have them, though I had to take the arms off when I brought it to the slip I'm in as they might punch a hole in the roof of the place when the water rises. I would really like to put them back on, so I was thinking of cutting the arms down to about the height of the masthead light. Does anyone think this would compromise them? My boat is a big time roller in rough water.

 

[Larry M]

Gulf Comanche wrote:

I have them, though I had to take the arms off when I brought it to the slip I'm in as they might punch a hole in the roof of the place when the water rises. I would really like to put them back on, so I was thinking of cutting the arms down to about the height of the masthead light. Does anyone think this would compromise them? My boat is a big time roller in rough water.

If you cut the poles, you may want to cut the length of the cables to the phish but be careful.* Ours are designed so that the phish can't get fouled in the running gear.* They run*15' deep*and at that we have had them out of the water a few times in huge seas.

*

 

[hollywood8118]

Gulf Comanche wrote:

I have them, though I had to take the arms off when I brought it to the slip I'm in as they might punch a hole in the roof of the place when the water rises. I would really like to put them back on, so I was thinking of cutting the arms down to about the height of the masthead light. Does anyone think this would compromise them? My boat is a big time roller in rough water.

I had a double swivel at the pivot point, they could pivot down from the upright stored position, and also fold back... but in my case they were shorter than the main mast so I only did this for maintenance. Shortening them WILL reduce the* level effect and get them closer the the running gear... you can see the difference in height between the mast and the vane arms, innthe second pic you can just make out the swivel
HOLLYWOOD

 

[Tidahapah]

Claude,
I have PM'd you re info from Monk and Ocean Haven yachts.
Attached is a couple of photos of static roll stabilisers.
Also a couple of boatrs with paravane arms, I'll also track down some with fold away arms as used on prawn trawlers here in Aus.
Benn