Photos from the Duck Nest

[dannc]

We visited Doumen China recently to see the Diesel Ducks at Seahorse Marine. We had a great visit and it solidified what we wanted in a Duck. I took 500-600 photos, shockingly, I should have taken more! There is one area of the DD that I swear I took a few photos but I cannot find them which is very frustrating. As I look at other photos I wish I had taken over images from different view points. Oh, well....

One of the many reasons for the visit was to see a DD 462, hull 14, that will be leaving Seahorse in the next few months along with the first DD 542. There is a yet to be built 492 model that we are very interested in buying and the best comparison of the DD 492 is to look at the 462 and 542. The 462 is certainly not a small boat by any measure but I wish it was slightly larger in a few places. Mainly an extra foot or so amidships in the engine room which would also add space to the galley and pilot house. The 492 adds not quite a foot amidships, almost a foot in the salon and the rest in the forward stateroom. I wish more room was added amidships in the DD 492 but other than that it is a really nice design with only a few tweaks I would want to make in the deck plan.

We met Bill, one of the owner's of Seashorse at the May Trawlerfest, and it was great to finally meet his wife Stella. We had me Moby Duck's owner, hull 14, Trawlerfest and he was a great help in getting to Doumen. We also met a number of Seahorse employees and learned quite a bit more about DDs.

We had about five days at the boat yard and we needed more time. There are a number of boats being built that I did not visit! We did not want to get in the way of the workers so we limited our boat visiting time to when the workers were not on board which meant visiting the boats at lunch time and after hours. We did spend very valuable time with Bill, Stella and Moby Duck's owner learning about China and DDs which was certainly more valuable than visiting the other boats. But not visiting those other boats is driving me nuts now that we are back in the states.

I will post what I think are the interesting photos of the DD's as I process them over the next few weeks. To start with there is the Moby Duck, a red 462 and hull number one of the 542 which is painted blue.

DD462 Moby Duck

DD 54201

If you look closely at the DD 542 and DD 462, you will notice that the 542 is a flush deck while the 462 has a cabin. You notice the extra steps going from the pilot house on the 542 into the salon but it is not a big deal. I really like the 542 flush deck. One thing we did notice in the 542 pilot house is that the 542 bow is higher than the 462 and blocks a bit more of the view forward than compared to the 462. Not a big deal but something we noticed. For us the 542 is just a BIT too large, the 462 is a BIT too small, so the 492 should be Goldilocks, i.e., Just Right.

Later,
Dan

 

[siestakey]

Thanks Dan

Looking forward tot he upcoming photos

 

[Delfin]

We visited Doumen China recently to see the Diesel Ducks at Seahorse Marine. We had a great visit and it solidified what we wanted in a Duck. I took 500-600 photos, shockingly, I should have taken more! There is one area of the DD that I swear I took a few photos but I cannot find them which is very frustrating. As I look at other photos I wish I had taken over images from different view points. Oh, well....

One of the many reasons for the visit was to see a DD 462, hull 14, that will be leaving Seahorse in the next few months along with the first DD 542. There is a yet to be built 492 model that we are very interested in buying and the best comparison of the DD 492 is to look at the 462 and 542. The 462 is certainly not a small boat by any measure but I wish it was slightly larger in a few places. Mainly an extra foot or so amidships in the engine room which would also add space to the galley and pilot house. The 492 adds not quite a foot amidships, almost a foot in the salon and the rest in the forward stateroom. I wish more room was added amidships in the DD 492 but other than that it is a really nice design with only a few tweaks I would want to make in the deck plan.

We met Bill, one of the owner's of Seashorse at the May Trawlerfest, and it was great to finally meet his wife Stella. We had me Moby Duck's owner, hull 14, Trawlerfest and he was a great help in getting to Doumen. We also met a number of Seahorse employees and learned quite a bit more about DDs.

We had about five days at the boat yard and we needed more time. There are a number of boats being built that I did not visit! We did not want to get in the way of the workers so we limited our boat visiting time to when the workers were not on board which meant visiting the boats at lunch time and after hours. We did spend very valuable time with Bill, Stella and Moby Duck's owner learning about China and DDs which was certainly more valuable than visiting the other boats. But not visiting those other boats is driving me nuts now that we are back in the states.

I will post what I think are the interesting photos of the DD's as I process them over the next few weeks. To start with there is the Moby Duck, a red 462 and hull number one of the 542 which is painted blue.

DD462 Moby Duck

DD 54201

If you look closely at the DD 542 and DD 462, you will notice that the 542 is a flush deck while the 462 has a cabin. You notice the extra steps going from the pilot house on the 542 into the salon but it is not a big deal. I really like the 542 flush deck. One thing we did notice in the 542 pilot house is that the 542 bow is higher than the 462 and blocks a bit more of the view forward than compared to the 462. Not a big deal but something we noticed. For us the 542 is just a BIT too large, the 462 is a BIT too small, so the 492 should be Goldilocks, i.e., Just Right.

Later,
Dan

Very cool, Dan. The only advice I can give to a future steel boat owner is to be very specific and knowledgeable about coatings. We're blessed with a terrific paint job on Delfin and I spend almost no time maintaining it. Even if you have to spend more to get the very best in this area you won't regret it.

 

[dannc]

I was told that Seahorse uses a 3-4 inch round metal bar to form the bow and that smaller round bar as part of the boat structure in other areas. No boats were at that phase of construction so I could not see the skantlings directly but you could see the bars if you looked closely. I was concerned that the 3-4 metal bar was really a pipe but it is a bar. Solid metal.

Seahorse uses part of a ship yard that was state run years ago. Another yard uses the other half of the facility and both yards share some of the heavy equipment. What is interesting is how little heavy equipment is used to form the metal work. Walking around you can see some of the bar stock used to form the scantlings.

One day a crew was bending a 3-4 inch bar for the big ship yard next door.

Here another crew is cutting some plate. The machine has a huge fly wheel that spins at high speeds before the cut is made. You can hear the high pitched whine a good distance away. The whine is not painful or really loud but it is unique. Sounds really cool.

This is the keel being built. Which I had taken a photo from the side and looking into the keel.

Back to round bar.

This is the bow of a Duck. You can just make out the round bar on the bow above the keel. I really wish I could have seen how the round bow bar is welded to the keel but there was not a boat at that stage of construction.

The bow of another Duck with a fair amount of fairing done.

Side photo of the bow at the keel with a pretty butterfly that likes Ducks.

This is the bottom of the Duck at the stern showing the bar used to hold the bottom and side plates.

Later,
Dan

 

[dannc]

Very cool, Dan. The only advice I can give to a future steel boat owner is to be very specific and knowledgeable about coatings. We're blessed with a terrific paint job on Delfin and I spend almost no time maintaining it. Even if you have to spend more to get the very best in this area you won't regret it.

ABSOLUTELY.

The hull coatings are CRITICAL. One owner had a surveyor check the paint thickness on the interior before the foam insulation was applied.

There are only a few stages of the boat build that I feel I need to watch and the most important is the interior steel prep and paint job. I have some photos I will post later about the interior prep and paint. I did not see a boat having this done but I got some photos of a boat that was not insulated as well as photos of the bilge of the 462 or 542.

Later,
Dan

 

[Diesel Duck]

Great post Dan! Having departed Doumen just prior to your arrival I can validate your comments about not taking enough photos.

I agree with you when you say the 492 will be "Just Right". I also concur with you when say the 462 is by no means a small boat (it's actually quite big), I just like the fact that the 492 has room for a queen berth in the forward guest cabin. And I did feel that the 542 was REALLY big, too big for my needs!

Isn't Stella, Bill's wife, the best! Her cheerful and over the top helpfulness made my trip. Note: There were a couple of times during my two week visit I wasn't feeling my best (I think is was due to my allergic reaction to the MSG found in much of the food at the local restaurants) and Stella treated me like an ailing son. She went so far as to buy me several traditional Chinese medicines (herbs) that helped me feel much better. Thank you Stella!

Getting back to the DD's... Here are some numbers for those interested in comparing a few of the Seahorse Marine Diesel Ducks:

DD462

LOA – 48’ 6 3/8” (14.792m)*
LWL - 46’ 23/64” (14.030m)
Beam moulded – 14’ 10 1/2” (4.534m)
Depth moulded - 8’ 11 31/64” (2.730m)
Draft – 5’ 10 5/64” (1.780m)

DD492

LOA – 53’ (16.154m)*
LWL - 50’ 2 27/32” (15.312m)
Beam moulded – 15’ (4.572m)
Depth moulded - 9’ 5 17/32” (2.884m)
Draft – 6’ 1/16” (1.830m)

DD542

LOA – 54’ 11 7/32” (16.744m)*
LWL - 53’ 3 11/16” (16.248m)
Beam moulded – 15’ 1 3/32” (4.600m)
Depth moulded - 10’ 2/32” (3.050m)
Draft – 5’ 10 7/8” (1.800m)

*NOTE: The LOA numbers do not include the anchor roller/bow pulpit which adds just over a foot in length overall.

 

[Diesel Duck]

To add to your photos, here is one of a couple of Seahorse workers bending some SS tubing:

 

[dannc]

Great post Dan! Having departed Doumen just prior to your arrival I can validate your comments about not taking enough photos.

I agree with you when you say the 492 will be "Just Right". I also concur with you when say the 462 is by no means a small boat (it's actually quite big), I did feel that the 542 was REALLY big, too big for my needs!

Isn't Stella, Bill's wife, the best! Her cheerful and over the top helpfulness made my trip. Note: There were a couple of times during my visit I wasn't feeling my best (I think is was due to my allergic reaction to the MSG found in much of the food at the local restaurants) and Stella treated me like an ailing son. She went so far as to buy me several traditional Chinese medicines (herbs) that helped me feel much better...

Stella is awesome! Stella spent hours with Robin even though I was trying to get the wife away so Stella could work. Stella took us to the Temple one afternoon which was great. I think Stella enjoyed it more than we did since their was a ceremony going on that had the monks chanting for at least an hour. Stella did not want to leave since she likes to hear the monk chants and we really enjoyed watching and listening to the ceremony. I did not take photos of the ceremony, it was funeral ritual that took place after the first funeral event, and to take pictures seemed disrespectful but I did record the monks chanting.

We went to a Chinese pharmacy near the Dim Sum restaurant one morning after breakfast and the next day Stella gave Robin a little gadget that you use to burn this special herb. The gadget is basically a heating pad that heats up by burning the herb. Stella had the herb growing in the garden outside her office. We were really afraid that the herb would get seized by US Customs but we were not searched. Whew!

Stella's son was using the gadget one morning to treat a painful knee.

I would love to spend a couple of days listening to Stella talk about her life. I picked up a bit here and there to know she has had an "interesting" life so far. She really helped us out here and there for which we were very appreciated. We told her so and told Bill he needs to spoil Stella. She is a jewel.

I have started to say "No Problem" more often and pronounced like Stella.

The only time I had problem with MSG was the first night when we ate at Driver Boys Restaurant. MSG gives me a headache and I had one that night.

FYI for those who have not been to Seahorse, Driver Boy is one of Seahorses trusted employees and he is the company driver among other things. While the job title Driver Boy may be insulting to western sensibilities the title is not a problem in China. Driver Boy is actually a grand pa and has worked for Seahorse for a very long time. He is a good driver as well, and if you have experienced Chinese driving and crossing the streets in China, that iis saying something.

The restaurant is nicked named Driver Boys Restaurant because he eats there all of the time.

Seahorse takes care of their employees and they have VERY low turn over. A nearby boat yard that supplies trawlers to the US has a 50% employee turn over. Stella and Bill have gone out of their way to hire people who cost them a lot of time and paperwork dealing with the Chinese regulations. They did not have to do this but they did it because it was the right thing to do.

The lead carpenter at Seahorse is a CRAFTSMAN. His work is EXCELLENT and what he can do with simple tools is amazing. He has been with Seahorse since they opened. I wish I could speak Chinese so I could tell him how impressed we are with his work. I have looked for wood working flaws on five completed or near completed Seahorse Ducks and I have not found a flaw yet.

Later,
Dan

 

[dannc]

It is CRITICAL for steel boats to be properly coated to prevent/minimize rust. This is really critical for the part of the hull that will be insulated with foam which is then covered with the interior of the boat. Walking around the Seahorse yard you can see the spray media used to prepare the steel for painting.

We did not take computers on the trip to lighten our load and not worry about securing the systems. This was the right decision but now that I am looking at the photos I see places where I needed to take other photos or take photos at different angles.

I could not find any boats where I could take photos of the "sand" blasting, painting or foaming but I did find a boat that was prepped for the epoxy paint and foaming.

This is the an interior photo of a Seahorse Oceaneer 55. This boat is HUGE! Actually too large for us! At least one of these were sailed across the Pacific to the US which is kinda crazy since the boat really is for protected coastal waters. The protective paint on the interior looks to be rolled on. This is not the final paint though.

Here are some photos I took of the bilge and under the toe rail of the boat.

This is the toe rail on deck. If you look closely, it really is not that clear with the images being resized for web display, but there is quite a bit of dirt on the paint. Upstream from the SHM yard is another yard that works on large river going ships. I would guess the largest is 100-150 feet long? Pretty danged big and they are used to haul, gravel, sand, dirt, concrete, and sometimes finished DDs.

Downstream and very close to where Ducks are docked on the river is a business that sells dirt. They might have gravel too but I saw a big pile of dirt they were loading onto trucks.

Both the dirt and ship yards produce quite a bit of dirt that falls on the boats and it really shows on the boats. Plus there is the normal "dirt" from finishing the boats at the docks.

You can see the final white paint that is pretty thick. Under the toe rail would be a great place for rust to start so I was looking for places were the paint was lacking. I did not find such a place.

Moving inside, here is a photo looking down into the bilge in the forward stateroom. This is what the bilge looks like in other places of the boat. One of my missing photos is of the stern showing the stern thruster and steering setup for the rudder. The missing photo looks like this one from a paint point of view.

This is an image a bit closer to the forward bilge pump. This space is the second water tight compartment from the bow. The first compartment is the crash bulkhead which has a water tight door to the the anchor locker. The forward state room has a water tight door and bulkhead. This is the pump for that space. Another hindsight moment. I should have taken a photo of the bilge pump hose going through the bulkhead.

I DID take a photo looking towards the bow!

I just put the camera down in the bilge and took the photo. I did stick my head in the bilge and look around but I did not have a flash light so I could not see much. The flash on the camera did a pretty good job though. IF I had processed this photo in China, I would have gone back and looked a bit closer at some of the metal since it looks like the metal sole structure might have some spots with a thin amount of paint. Flip side is that the metal frame work should not be getting wet but I would want more paint on a few spots.

The bilge paint I saw in the boats in China looks like the paint jobs I saw on boats in WA a TrawlerFest. The only rust I saw on one boat in WA was from metal shavings that fell on top of the bilge paint and there was some desk rust in one spot. I could not tell if that rust was from the paint being chipped or metal shavings. The rust was a little spot and no big deal to touch up.

Later,
Dan

 

[marcoh]

I would to have a 542! Wish Seahorse had the time to update their website, but maybe they are too busy building boats.

I am interested though in lack of stabilisers in the ducks. I am assuming wind needs to be in the right direction for sail stabilisers to work? What is the roll like when the wind is not in the right direction.

Seems the fibreglass Seahorse 52 boats often have gyro stabilisers installed.

 

[Peter B]

I have found it interesting to follow the adventures of one rather specially adapted DD called 'Ice', owned by one Aussie called Don McIntyre, and adapted somewhat for literally travelling into the ice latitudes. However, lately in one of our local boating mags, he has been reporting on some Pacific Island cruising, with various young people as crew.

ICE

 

[Diesel Duck]

I would to have a 542! Wish Seahorse had the time to update their website, but maybe they are too busy building boats.

I am interested though in lack of stabilisers in the ducks. I am assuming wind needs to be in the right direction for sail stabilisers to work? What is the roll like when the wind is not in the right direction.

Seems the fibreglass Seahorse 52 boats often have gyro stabilisers installed.

As someone who has recently walked all through the first DD542, I can tell you that it is a beautiful boat. Too big for my needs but if you want a two cabin, each with a queen berth, layout with a BIG feel then it might be the right choice for you.

As far as stabilization without wind, I opted for paravanes (like those installed on ICE) on my new DD492. I will of course utilize the sails on my "ketch rig" (again like ICE, although mine will have a boomless system) when the winds permit to both stabilize and help with the overall fuel economy. I plan to follow in the footsteps of the brand new DD462-14 and will be installing a MaxProp Whisper fully feathering five-blade propeller with adjustable pitch. I was told by those who did the first trial runs with DD462-14 the MaxProp performed exceptionally well.

I'm not sure why the owner of the first DD542 did not install paravanes, maybe the boat it just too big for paravanes, but after talking with him I get the impression he doesn't plan on doing much bluewater cruising. I could be wrong but that's the impression I got. That being said, the DD's are very stable boats even without any type of stabilization but, personally, I would not do a bluewater passage without some sort of stabilization.

I question that SHM fiberglass boats "often" have gyro stabilization, I'm only aware of one but here again I could be wrong. While in China last month I went to the yard where SHM builds their fiberglass boats and saw several in various stages of construction. Nice boats to be sure!

 

[Scary]

Sea Horse 52

Before I bought my 48LRC I looked at several Sea Horse 52's and a couple of DD's. I was very impressed with the overall quality of the Sea Horse 52'. They had a lot of thoughtful engineering and a layout very similar to my 48, the living space a little tighter. The engine room was very well engineered and the electrical systems well laid out and wiring routed large pvc chases. The added water line with the swim platform made a lot of sense. The wood work pretty much looked as good as a Nordhavn. Nice boats for sure. The ducks I looked seemed crude in comparison, rugged but crude. The interiors of these boats were ill fitting and the interiors dark. I thought at the time the added expense over the Fiberglass boats didn't make sense. That was my impression at the time. I'm not trying to pick a fight, but that's how it seemed at that time. The other concern was how would you maintain rust prevention in areas you can't get to. I have a friend with a custom steel trawler and that's his biggest complaint. Steel boats rust from the inside out. What is your impression of the current Ducks workmanship as to interior fit and finish. The boats I looked at would be 6 or 7 years old now.

 

[dannc]

Before I bought my 48LRC I looked at several Sea Horse 52's and a couple of DD's. I was very impressed with the overall quality of the Sea Horse 52'. They had a lot of thoughtful engineering and a layout very similar to my 48, the living space a little tighter. The engine room was very well engineered and the electrical systems well laid out and wiring routed large pvc chases. The added water line with the swim platform made a lot of sense. The wood work pretty much looked as good as a Nordhavn. Nice boats for sure. The ducks I looked seemed crude in comparison, rugged but crude. The interiors of these boats were ill fitting and the interiors dark. I thought at the time the added expense over the Fiberglass boats didn't make sense. That was my impression at the time. I'm not trying to pick a fight, but that's how it seemed at that time. The other concern was how would you maintain rust prevention in areas you can't get to. I have a friend with a custom steel trawler and that's his biggest complaint. Steel boats rust from the inside out. What is your impression of the current Ducks workmanship as to interior fit and finish. The boats I looked at would be 6 or 7 years old now.

Where the DD's you looked at made by Seahorse or some other company? Not all DD's are built by SHM, some are home builts and a some built by other yards.

Seahorse has had the same carpenter since they started building boats and I have yet to find a flaw in his work and I have LOOKED for a flaw on five boats.

With proper preparation of the steel hull and painting, rust should not be a problem. This is why I am posting photos of their painting of the hull and boat interior. Once the hull is painted, insulation applied, and wood work installed, there is no access to the hull. The painting and prep has to be done right the first time. SHM applies several coats of epoxy paint so if the steel is cleanup prior to painting, rust should not be a problem. It is critical that this is done correctly.

The oldest boat I have seen was a Coot which was about five years old. That boat was immaculate. It looked better than new even though the owners had cruised up and down the east coast a few times before bringing the boat to the PNW. The only rust I have heard about was external rust around ports on a 462. It was not clear to me if this was because of thin/chipped paint or some other problem. Just something that needed to be fixed after maybe five years of ownership.

I have not seen the price on a plastic SHM 52 lately but the last price I saw was about the same as a steel SHM 462. Options can really drive up the price though.

Later,
Dan

 

[Diesel Duck]

Before I bought my 48LRC I looked at several Sea Horse 52's and a couple of DD's. I was very impressed with the overall quality of the Sea Horse 52'. They had a lot of thoughtful engineering and a layout very similar to my 48, the living space a little tighter. The engine room was very well engineered and the electrical systems well laid out and wiring routed large pvc chases. The added water line with the swim platform made a lot of sense. The wood work pretty much looked as good as a Nordhavn. Nice boats for sure. The ducks I looked seemed crude in comparison, rugged but crude. The interiors of these boats were ill fitting and the interiors dark. I thought at the time the added expense over the Fiberglass boats didn't make sense. That was my impression at the time. I'm not trying to pick a fight, but that's how it seemed at that time. The other concern was how would you maintain rust prevention in areas you can't get to. I have a friend with a custom steel trawler and that's his biggest complaint. Steel boats rust from the inside out. What is your impression of the current Ducks workmanship as to interior fit and finish. The boats I looked at would be 6 or 7 years old now.

Not sure which Ducks you've seen up close and personal (I'm curious as to which ones you are referring to) and came away with the opinion they were "crude", but for you to say that it makes me think that you've looked at Ducks not built by SHM. I say this because all of the SHM Diesel Ducks I've been aboard were incredibly well built. The fit and finish of the latest SHM Diesel Ducks is as good or better than any Nordhavn I've seen and I've been aboard no less than fifteen different Nordhavn's during my previous seven years as a "Nordhavn Dreamer". And, to be clear, I've been aboard three completed SHM Diesel Ducks along with one of their Coots in the past six months and all of them exceeded my expectations for fit and finish. The woodwork was absolutely beautiful along with their SS work, engine room layout etc. etc. If I were to make a complaint about a SHM DD it would have to be about the cushions used for the settee in the saloon and pilothouse, they were too firm for my liking. Other than that, I think the SHM Diesel Ducks are fantastic examples of boat building... Doh, that's why I'm buying one!

Regarding rust... As senior member Tad Roberts stated last month here on TF while discussing rust and steel boats in another post, rust used to be a problem with steel boats but with today's new coating materials there shouldn't be a problem.

Here is Tad Robert's exact quote about rust and steel boats dated Oct 21, 2014: "Once upon a time it was a terminal problem. Today with modern coatings, if properly cleaned, primed, and applied, there is no problem. Rust only appears where the coating has failed. All wear points like rub rails, cleats & bitts, hawse pipes, cabin edges, etc. should be stainless steel and radiused."

 

[dannc]

I would to have a 542! Wish Seahorse had the time to update their website, but maybe they are too busy building boats.

I am interested though in lack of stabilisers in the ducks. I am assuming wind needs to be in the right direction for sail stabilisers to work? What is the roll like when the wind is not in the right direction.

Seems the fibreglass Seahorse 52 boats often have gyro stabilisers installed.

Its odd that most of the literature says that a sail rig does not work to stabilize unless there is wind, yet we often kept a sail up to stabilize even in low/no wind situations. Seemed to work. Certainly the mass of the sail does damper roll a bit but I guess it depends on the hull design, sail rig, and how much rolling is going on.

Most/all of the SHM DDs intended for passage making have stabilization in the form of paravanes which can drastically reduce roll, Beebe's book says paravanes reduce roll by about 60% at the cost of 1/2 knot of speed.

The 542 is a really big boat. It is too big for what we need or even want. What we did like in the 542 was the larger pilot house and the flush deck but the larger salon we just don't need. The 492 provides a larger forward stateroom, salon, and a bit larger pilot house, galley, and engine room compared to a 462. I would prefer to take some of the space from the 492 salon and move it to the pilot house, galley and ER and move the forward stateroom watertight bulkhead aft a bit but the 492 is a pretty danged good design as it is. It is right sized for use, the stuff I am talking about is just tweeking the internals, the size of the boat is right sized.

I have some photos of the 542 interior I will post as we move along but I do not have a deck plan. If you look at the 492 deck plan, it is similar to the 542 -01 we saw in Doumen. There is just more room in the pilot house, ER, galley, salon, and maybe the forward state room.

Later,
Dan

 

[dannc]

DD 542 Pilot House

Here are some photos of the DD542 pilot house.

The DD542 has more room in the engine room, galley and pilot house which is really nice. I think these spaces are were the 462 needs a bit more room and adding space in the ER adds space in the pilot house and galley as well. Its a three fer.

You can see to port there is what I call the copilot seat. I REALLY want a copilot seat. But I also want a way to be off watch and be able to nap in the pilot house. This mostly means sleeping on the bench seat but I have another idea I will mention after showing a few more photos.

Here is the port side table, bench seat and copilot chair.

And a close up of the copilot chair.

This copilot chair works but I think there is a better, at more expense of course , idea. My thought is to use a helm chair like at the helm but moved to the copilot position. The question about this is can the helm chair be lowered so that the table can be used and/or can the table and bench seating be raised enough to allow the copilot chair to use the table. For this to work, the helm chair, raising the table, and raising the bench seating has to be bounded by the PH ceiling height.

The helm chairs I have looked at recline to 40/43 degrees, and if I can sleep in the so called reclining chairs in cattle class flying across the Pacific, I figure a 40 degree recline will be heaven!

There has to be enough space to recline though so I suspect the seating at the PH table is going to get reduced a bit more than what is shown in the photos. However, you can see that the copilot chair in the photos really reduces the number of people that can eat at the table. It will be a tight fit for four people, more like three but with a helm chair that can swing around, four could easily eat that the table IF the headroom will allow this setup.

It does look like the current and helm chair configuration would allow someone to sleep on the bench.

I have some more 542 photos from down below that I will have to process to post but I will post them eventually.

Later,
Dan

 

[Scary]

The boats I looked at were at the importers docks in Olympia Washington.

The boats were in Olympia Washington. They were privately owned Ducks shown to me by the Sea Horse dealer. I believe they were built by Sea Horse. The photos you've presented look good. What I saw wasn't nearly as nice as the 52 at that time. I'm sure you've done your due diligence. And I'm sure your boat will be beautiful. That was my impression then. As to coatings, nothing is forever. I'm old enough to remember when balsa coring was thought to be forever and highly touted, polyester encapsulated plywood would never rot, so many said, why not use shop plywood for coring. We've all seen the folly in that. I'm sure the coatings will hold up fine, and a little hidden rust , probably no big deal. If these boats are rigged as well as their glass boats you'll have a hell of a boat.

 

[Animal]

Thanks for sharing photos from your trip, guys!!! It's great to see so many Ducks in flow!

 

[Capt Kangeroo]

They are indeed gorgeous boats. I want one!

Call me picky, but unless I'm not seeing it correctly, not cutting the floor supports off on an angle to fully meet with the hull rib is just plain laziness or are these only temporary?

 

[Delfin]

They are indeed gorgeous boats. I want one!

Call me picky, but unless I'm not seeing it correctly, not cutting the floor supports off on an angle to fully meet with the hull rib is just plain laziness or are these only temporary?

No, I don't think that is being picky. IF there is a POTENTIAL characteristic of boats made in China it is to have what can't be seen easily built to a different standard than that which can be seen. The question is whether it matters or not, and that is probably a matter of choice as often as it is a matter of engineering.

I would also not characterize what little I can see of the coatings in this area to be what I would like to see....

 

[dannc]

The boats were in Olympia Washington. They were privately owned Ducks shown to me by the Sea Horse dealer. I believe they were built by Sea Horse. The photos you've presented look good. What I saw wasn't nearly as nice as the 52 at that time. I'm sure you've done your due diligence. And I'm sure your boat will be beautiful. That was my impression then. As to coatings, nothing is forever. I'm old enough to remember when balsa coring was thought to be forever and highly touted, polyester encapsulated plywood would never rot, so many said, why not use shop plywood for coring. We've all seen the folly in that. I'm sure the coatings will hold up fine, and a little hidden rust , probably no big deal. If these boats are rigged as well as their glass boats you'll have a hell of a boat.

The photos I have seen of one of the DD 462 interiors, I think it was hull 2, looks like what I am seeing in person. The photos of the DD 382's have been similar quality. Early on, SHM built a few DD 44s and DD 48s. Maybe you were seeing DD 44's or 48's that SHM first built years ago?

Did you see a boat like this:

2006 Diesel Duck Custom Diesel Duck Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

I agree about wood coring. I just don't trust that the wood will not get wet from deck or hull penetrations.

My truck is about to start it's 14 the year and it has no rust. The only time I was the truck is when there is salt on the road but then I only hose out the undercarriage and I have not done that in years. The truck is dirty but there is no rust or scratches on the paint job.

The epoxy paint on the interior hull is pretty thick and then is covered with insulation to prevent condensation and of course insulate the boat. The condensation problems I have heard about have been on port holes and the pilot house windows. Same problem you have in a house. Anyway, the insulation protects that paint and the paint should not degrade, at least not in my lifetime. This is standard metal boat building practice that has worked for decades both in practice and in actual boats.

The key is the surface prep and painting has to be done correctly. If that paint is not done right there can/will be problems. I know one owner had his inspector use a device to measure the thickness of the interior paint which is a VERY good idea.

Later,
Dan

 

[dannc]

They are indeed gorgeous boats. I want one!

Call me picky, but unless I'm not seeing it correctly, not cutting the floor supports off on an angle to fully meet with the hull rib is just plain laziness or are these only temporary?

I was wondering if someone would notice those supports.

It is not temporary but I am not sure it matters though. The sole is rock solid. I was jumping up and down in that area and nothing was moving.

Jumping up and down on a floor is a habit I picked up when looking at houses. If there is a lot of noise, bouncing or flexing you will know. Course any many houses, just walking across the floor causes bouncing and noise.

Later,
Dan

 

[dannc]

No, I don't think that is being picky. IF there is a POTENTIAL characteristic of boats made in China it is to have what can't be seen easily built to a different standard than that which can be seen. The question is whether it matters or not, and that is probably a matter of choice as often as it is a matter of engineering.

I would also not characterize what little I can see of the coatings in this area to be what I would like to see....

What do you not like in the coatings?

The image is not great because I have downsized and resized them for Internet viewing. There are colors showing that are not really there and there are some downsizing artifacts as well.

The area is really solid white in the bilge and supports. The paint is thick and not thin at all on the hull. There is an earlier photo looking down into the bilge that is a more color/artifact accurate photo after being downsized and resized.

Later,
Dan

 

[dannc]

Lets see how this new image works. It looks better on my website so lets see if it works better here.

That looks better. Less moire and fake colors.

FYI, I took this photo by putting the camera under the sole and taking a photo. This is towards the bow and under a double bed. I don't know if there is access from the bed structure into the space forward. If not, one would have to slide through the sole hatch to get into the space which a couple of short boards or plywood would help accomplish but it would be tight.

The two angle irons that are not cut flush to the ribs are welded into place. They should have been cut to match the angle of the ribs but they are not moving as is and the center post is really taking up the load. Frankly, the centerpiece is likely all that is needed from a structure point of view.

Thinking about this through a bit it would be better if the two "angled" posts were not there and two vertical posts were welded on the flat part of the rib where the rib angles up the bilge. This would allow "easier" access to the bow if you had to climb up there or store materials.

Later,
Dan

 

[BryanF]

The two pieces that are not cut to fit are not vertical either. Makes me think that they where tacked in to hold things in place while getting it all lined up. Then, the welder forgot to take them out. It happens to the best of us. If it is the only thing on a project the size of one of these boats then you are really lucky. Overall, the quality of the build looks good to me but each will have their own opinion.

 

[Moonstruck]

The two pieces that are not cut to fit are not vertical either. Makes me think that they where tacked in to hold things in place while getting it all lined up. Then, the welder forgot to take them out. It happens to the best of us. If it is the only thing on a project the size of one of these boats then you are really lucky. Overall, the quality of the build looks good to me but each will have their own opinion.

BryonF,

If your boat has not been posted on the "Interesting Boats" thread, it should be. That looks like a great boat.

 

[BryanF]

Don- I think you will find Florence A back on about page 29 of interesting boats. If you search Jay Stoddard George Sutton you should find her.
And yes, I and everyone who has looked at her says interesting boat. Thanks.

 

[hollywood8118]

The photos I have seen of one of the DD 462 interiors, I think it was hull 2, looks like what I am seeing in person. The photos of the DD 382's have been similar quality. Early on, SHM built a few DD 44s and DD 48s. Maybe you were seeing DD 44's or 48's that SHM first built years ago?

Did you see a boat like this:

2006 Diesel Duck Custom Diesel Duck Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

I agree about wood coring. I just don't trust that the wood will not get wet from deck or hull penetrations.

My truck is about to start it's 14 the year and it has no rust. The only time I was the truck is when there is salt on the road but then I only hose out the undercarriage and I have not done that in years. The truck is dirty but there is no rust or scratches on the paint job.

The epoxy paint on the interior hull is pretty thick and then is covered with insulation to prevent condensation and of course insulate the boat. The condensation problems I have heard about have been on port holes and the pilot house windows. Same problem you have in a house. Anyway, the insulation protects that paint and the paint should not degrade, at least not in my lifetime. This is standard metal boat building practice that has worked for decades both in practice and in actual boats.

The key is the surface prep and painting has to be done correctly. If that paint is not done right there can/will be problems. I know one owner had his inspector use a device to measure the thickness of the interior paint which is a VERY good idea.

Later,
Dan

10&2 is not a Asian Duck
It was built here in Port Townsend and is no doubt the best built Duck ever. The welds EVERYWHERE are perfect.. it is a work of art.
There used to be a Dark Blue hulled Asian DD here in P.T. that was a mess. It was a few years old at the time and had rust bleed everywhere.. the paint system had to be shoddy at best for a 3 or so year old boat to have rust bleeds on the side of the hull

The weld quality on some of the first pics in this thread looked pretty suspect also.. look at the primed hull bow pic.

Comparing 10&2 to the Asian Ducks is like comparing the quality of a early Russian Mig to a Lockheed airframe of recent vintage.

To be fair, the first Nordhavn was a piece of crap.. they learned their lesson in a hurry.. the rest is history.
Also.. if I could afford it I would buy 10&2.. the only one I have personally seen that I can say that about so far.

HOLLYWOOD

 

[Delfin]

What do you not like in the coatings?

The image is not great because I have downsized and resized them for Internet viewing. There are colors showing that are not really there and there are some downsizing artifacts as well.

The area is really solid white in the bilge and supports. The paint is thick and not thin at all on the hull. There is an earlier photo looking down into the bilge that is a more color/artifact accurate photo after being downsized and resized.

Later,
Dan

Hard to tell from the picture, but it just looks a bit thin, and the drips speak of a bit of carelessness in application. But as I said, hard to tell from the picture.