Port engine coolant taking on water in 3208TA

[RickyD]

I tried to send this earlier but lost WiFi. I'm getting water in my port coolant. Last year I replaced the port coolant bundle with new. A couple years ago I got oil in my coolant from the oil heat exchanger. Now I think it must be the turbo aftercooler. Does that sound right?

 

[Comodave]

Don’t know about your aftercooler but mine doesn’t have any coolant in it. It uses sewater to cool the turbo heated air. Just air and seawater inside it.

 

[twistedtree]

This has been determined because the coolant level is rising?


I think the first check would be whether it's fresh or salt water, though I suspect salt i the only possibility. Can't imagine where fresh would come from other than condensate.


Do you know if it happens when the engine is running, or when it's shut off. The water will flow in the direction of any pressure difference, and that might help narrow down where it's leaking.



The heat exchanger would be the obvious place where coolant and raw water come together, but I'm not sure when the raw water side might be at a higher pressure than the coolant side.


I don't think coolant and raw water come together in an aftercooler. They are either raw water cooled, or coolant cooled, but I don't think ever both.


So your heat exchanger seems like the most likely, if not only possible place.

 

[Lepke]

If you have a pressurized cap, the coolant pressure is much higher than the salt water pressure. Any leak in the heat exchanger will put salt water in the coolant.
Any decent radiator shop should be able to pressure test the heat exchanger.

 

[Flatswing]

Is there a hot water heater loop in the coolant circuit for your Port engine?

 

[O C Diver]

Is there a hot water heater loop in the coolant circuit for your Port engine?

That's what I was thinking. Have a friend who had a heat exchanger in his water heater go bad and pushed freshwater into his coolant loop.

Ted

 

[twistedtree]

If you have a pressurized cap, the coolant pressure is much higher than the salt water pressure. Any leak in the heat exchanger will put salt water in the coolant.
Any decent radiator shop should be able to pressure test the heat exchanger.

Wouldn't it be the opposite?

 

[twistedtree]

Is there a hot water heater loop in the coolant circuit for your Port engine?

Ahh, that may be a more likely source since the fresh water supply pressure is likely higher than then coolant pressure.

 

[sunchaser]

To check for tank HXer integrity:

Shut the on engine water heater valves off, disconnect the hoses and ascertain if any fresh water flows from the hoses with fresh water system pressurized.

 

[RickyD]

Sorry I have been away from WiFi. My heat exchanger bundle is brand new and from Catapiller. I put it in with fresh end cap seals also from Catapiller. I don't recall worrying if I got everything correct as it was quite simple. Well I did have to disconnect my Air Conditioner to get it out of the way. So I have to assume it is ok, but maybe not. I've texted my Cat mechanic and have not heard from him yet. If the turbo after cooler is air and sea water only then I have to take the bundle and seals off and see what gives. I have not run the engine much until the end of July and it has been overflowing. I don't have a recovery tank for it so it goes in the bilge somewhat unnoticed until I checked the coolant level. It has been running cool. Oh, also, I tried to taste if for salt and all I could taste was coolant. It is still slightly pink but something is rotten in port land.

 

[Inbreaker]

The aftercooler is only sea water cooled in the 3208TAs.

 

[twistedtree]

Does the engine in question provide heating to your hot water tank? Someone suggested that as a source of the excess water, and it makes a lot of sense since that's where there is water pressure that exceeds the coolant pressure.


A test of the coolant would be useful to determine if it's salt or fresh water that's getting in.

 

[RickyD]

The aftercooler is only sea water cooled in the 3208TAs.

Ok, thank you. That would mean that somehow I screwed up the coolant bundle replacement. Seems like I put it in the only way it goes and as said before, it is a brand new unit I paid over $2,000 for. Is there such a thing as upside down? I just looked at my reconditioned bundle and I see there is a flat part right through the middle of one end. There is also a tab there so I believe there is only one way to install it. But.......when I put in the seal with the band across the middle, did I line it up? Well, that is something to check and easy to do at that. I'll report back.

 

[Endeavor GB 32]

I had a 42 GB with 3208N's. I pulled the cooler bundles as a planned maintenance item. Tested, no leaks. Next cruise, while underway, coolant leaking thru overflow on starboard engine. Short story long, I had gouged one of the large yellow internal o-rings on re-assembly. No leaks at idle, but, at cruise RPM's the salt water pressure exceeds the coolant pressure and salt water leaks by to the coolant side. Simple fix; re-assemble CAREFULLY with new o-rings, multiple fresh water flush and drain, then fresh coolant. Good luck!
Regards,
Scott

 

[Inbreaker]

Ok, thank you. That would mean that somehow I screwed up the coolant bundle replacement. Seems like I put it in the only way it goes and as said before, it is a brand new unit I paid over $2,000 for. Is there such a thing as upside down? I just looked at my reconditioned bundle and I see there is a flat part right through the middle of one end. There is also a tab there so I believe there is only one way to install it. But.......when I put in the seal with the band across the middle, did I line it up? Well, that is something to check and easy to do at that. I'll report back.

It would be difficult to put it in upside down. The silicon spacer that runs longitudinal ally around the core, and the stainless steel stud at the back that fits into a matching hole would make that improbable- never mind the hose fittings. For what it's worth, however, the tethered drain plug should be down at the lower right.

 

[Inbreaker]

BTW- where did you get a new one for $2k? My Cat dealer wanted a lot more than that.

 

[sunchaser]

RD
Possibly a pressure test on the HXer is needed. New ones aren’t 100%. If defective Cat will replace it.

 

[Greg QS]

Dumb Question.
When you changed your HE and re filled the system, Did you fill to the top or leave room for expansion? With not expansion tank you cannot fully fill the tank.

 

[RickyD]

BTW- where did you get a new one for $2k? My Cat dealer wanted a lot more than that.

Harbor Diesel in Long Beach California.

 

[RickyD]

Dumb Question.
When you changed your HE and re filled the system, Did you fill to the top or leave room for expansion? With not expansion tank you cannot fully fill the tank.

Without the recovery bottle the system equalizes a bit below full. I’ll probably install them soon as I would have caught this earlier if I had. I just don’t have much room as my Naiad hydraulic pump is right there and I have a second generator in front

 

[slowgoesit]

RickyD, It's mentioned several times, but I don't believe you've answered the question.

Does your water heater have a secondary loop that runs engine coolant through it? I replaced one of our water heaters last year because the fresh water pump, at 45 psi, was pushing water into, in this case, the hydronic heating system, causing the hydronic heating system to "make water", overflowing the hydronic overflow tank. The hydronic heating had a 3 psi radiator cap, the fresh water was 45 psi . . .

In your case I suspect that your engine coolant system operates between, say, 10 to 15 psi, but you water system runs from 45 to 60 psi . . . . so if your water heater has developed a crack in the secondary coils, internal to the tank, the fresh water at 45 + psi will slowly seep into the engine coolant system, even with the engine running, thereby increasing the coolant level in the engine.

If this is indeed happening, the solution is to replace your water heater. Ours was a Dometic, and 22 years old, so it was entitled!

 

[sunchaser]

Harbor Diesel in Long Beach California.

Did the HXer come in a Cat box with appropriate Cat serial numbers and bar code? I ask because there are less than suitable after market vendors that ply the marine trade business.

And yes, echo what has been said many times on this thread regarding isolating the water heater loop. This task is #1!!

 

[RickyD]

Did the HXer come in a Cat box with appropriate Cat serial numbers and bar code? I ask because there are less than suitable after market vendors that ply the marine trade business.

And yes, echo what has been said many times on this thread regarding isolating the water heater loop. This task is #1!!

I don't have the water heater loop so it is salt water. The HE slides in only one way. There is a tab that means I can only install it in one position. The only thing I can think of is that I did not properly align the port side end cap seal that has the bar across the middle. I saw it, why wouldn't I position it properly?
Well I just have to check. I'll respond in a couple days once I get a chance to check it out.

 

[Endeavor GB 32]

In the diagram below, ref. #2 is the o-ring. If you nick or gouge it while inserting the tube bundle during re-assembly you will get exactly the symptoms that you describe. $11 with shipping here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/123724187269

Regards,
Scott

 

[RickyD]

In the diagram below, ref. #2 is the o-ring. If you nick or gouge it while inserting the tube bundle during re-assembly you will get exactly the symptoms that you describe. $11 with shipping here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/123724187269

Regards,
Scott

Thank you I'll order one just in case.

 

[RickyD]

BTW- where did you get a new one for $2k? My Cat dealer wanted a lot more than that.

Harbor Diesel now called HD Industries. I just checked, I paid $2689 in December 2022.

 

[RickyD]

Just in case I forgot to answer this question, my engines do not heat the water heater so there is no connection there. I will receive the suggested "O" rings today. I have yet to remove the end caps as I am preparing for our first ever "Tropical Storm" Hillary. Currently she is off of Baja as a Hurricane but expected to be just a storm when she hits here Saturday night. My Sunday night outdoor concert tickets to see "Chicago" have been rescheduled for Sept.

 

[RickyD]

I did speak to my Cat mechanic and he indicated that any mixing of coolant and sea water would come from the port side coolant cap assuming the new bundle is good. I put recovery bottles in, I topped off the coolant in both engines, I replaced the “O” ring that I may have damaged and liberally lubbed it all and reinstalled carefully. I’ll be keeping a close eye on it and if the water level in the recovery bottle rises, I’ll have to look into the bundle. If I fixed the leak then I will need to flush and replace coolant.

 

[RickyD]

Ok, I received the Stb side "O" rings as suggested by Endeavor I lubbed liberally and carefully installed. The old "O" ring looked perfect but it may have rolled upon installation the first time. This time it seemed to go on easier. I put recovery bottles on both engines and tested at sea. No sea water incursion. So next is the hard part. Draining and flushing. Well I asked a buddy to help me with his drill powered pump. I just have enough room between the stringer and the drain valve to get a medium sized bowl. So, open the drain (cap off of course) start filling the bowl and use the variable speed drill to pump and the same pace into a 5 gallon pail. Stop, dump the pail in the head, then more pumping. Once we drained all of the coolant we got to flushing by hooking a hose overboard to the pump and then no need for the pail. Lots of flushing. Then a radiator flush. Then more flushing. Then coolant. I'm so glad to get the salt out of that engine. On to the next problem, only 6v getting to my middle bilge pump. Thank you Endeavor for the "O" ring info.

 

[Endeavor GB 32]

Congrats Ricky! Sorry to say I have no helpful ideas about the low voltage to the bilgepump. Good luck!
Regards,
Scott