Remodeling the Covid Forum

[Janet H]

We have had an increasing number of posts in this section of the forum that are wildly off topic, raising hackles and causing an unreasonable level of rancor. It has been disheartening to witness and has reduced the generally pleasant vibe of the Trawler Forum substantially.

Most people have long ago formed opinions and will not be swayed by further debate. This toxic back and forth spills out into other sections of the forum and reduces the helpful and friendly discussion that is the hallmark of the Trawler forum. Your volunteer site team is tired of patrolling the covid playground; quelling dustups that serve no real purpose and we ask for your help as we do some remodeling in the covid forum.

The Covid Forum will remain open but with new regs.

Topics should be directly related to boating and transit issues.

We have closed most old covid topics leaving a few that appear to be on topic and I encourage you to review the restated rules when posting in this section of the forum: https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=865740&postcount=1

Posts that run afoul of the rules may be deleted without explanation. Older threads and threads that begin to wander off topic will be routinely closed to avoid re-infection.

You can help: There are plenty of fine places on the internet to engage in general debate but we are a boating forum. Help us stay focused on the the thing that we share in common - an interest in boating. When discussions begin to wander astray, make a choice to not engage. Instead, hit the report post button on posts that seem counter to the intent of the covid forum and let the site team manage the issue. Let's get back to discussing boats, brightwork, bottoms and bilges.


Thanks for understanding

 

[twistedtree]

Good call.

 

[drb1025]

Thank you

 

[FWT]

Great call.

 

[janice142]

Excellent, and thank you Janet. Frankly I come here for the boat talk. Even if I agree with you politically, I don't care. You're my boat friends.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

I have been waiting for this action to re-engage in TF.

Thank you.

ASD

 

[LN-RTP]

Hi Janet H.
I knew you from the sailboat forum..
Now you joined the dark side, like me.

Regards, CSY man.

 

[jleonard]

It is/was a sub forum in the Harbor Chat section so I also think the new rules are too restrictive.
That is MY opinion.
You can now close this thread if you'd like.

 

[toocoys]

Quite frankly, the entire sub forum should be deleted, and the Covid topic should be on the list with religion and politics. People should be competent enough to do their own research regarding border crossings etc.

 

[HiDHo]

The repetitive posts about who is vaxed or who is against being vaxed, endless statistics along with OPINIONS, political jabs, and information best found on other websites not the forum. Please.

 

[HTurner]

I agree that the Covid sub forum should be deleted. The are multiple ways to get Covid news. TF is a specialized forum and should remain as such.

 

[Janet H]

I agree that the Covid sub forum should be deleted. The are multiple ways to get Covid news. TF is a specialized forum and should remain as such.

This has been under consideration but seemed just too draconian. Instead we've opted for a more measured option. There's no owners manual that comes with the moderator stripes... sometimes we have to just try something and see how it goes. We're hoping that TF members can rise above the cesspool of online trolling and use the covid forum as intended.

 

[toocoys]

We're hoping that TF members can rise above the cesspool of online trolling and use the covid forum as intended.

As long as there's heated discussions such as vaccinations, political parties, religious affiliations, sail vs power, and gas vs diesel, there will be trolling. You can hope until the cows come home, but reality is reality. It will not stop, and it will not be overcome.

 

[Janet H]

As long as there's heated discussions such as vaccinations, political parties, religious affiliations, sail vs power, and gas vs diesel, there will be trolling. You can hope until the cows come home, but reality is reality. It will not stop, and it will not be overcome.

Covid debate and other covid related discussions that are not directly related to boating and transit will be closed without notice. If they continue and folks can't restrain themselves punitive measures for those involved accounts will be taken. We're hoping that does not happen but are prepared to take these measures.

The choice to post is entirely up to the poster in the same way the choice to drive drunk or taunt the harbormaster is a personal choice (however ill-advised).

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Stupid question:

What is trolling?

I do not understand this term.

 

[Janet H]

Stupid question:

What is trolling?

I do not understand this term.

Trolling on this board includes posting controversial and often irrelevant or off-topic messages with the intention of (or anticipated result of) baiting other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal, harmonious on-topic discussion, especially when a pattern of such posting is apparent.

https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/misc.php?do=sknetwork&page=rules

 

[firehoser75]

To give a "more rounded" (other side of the issue) view/opinion, I am saddened that it ended up this way. While I do agree that the Covid area had issues and some restraint from members and control from the mods was necessary, there was some good information and discussions shared there. There was some value there (I know only about 10%). I learned some things there that helped me better "deal" with this pandemic and opened the door (if you will) to further sources of research that I might not have found or even heard about elsewhere.

Like all topic areas, TF members could decide on their own to view, read, post or not. They are in total control in that regard. No one forces any member to read things (topics) they don't like or aren't interested in! For example, only a few members post regularly on the Welcome Mat! Most members don't seem to bother or are not interested in "meeting/welcoming new members." So be it. Their choice.

I will guess that some of this decision is to "lighten the workload" of the mods and that is fair and understandable. It is a difficult and often thankless job. I have some experience in that type of thing I also agree that this site is for boating. But having a very small "off topic" and not 100% boating related area (there was some good boating specific related info there) for those that want to use it, is, in my humble opinion, not always a bad thing (especially for a topic that so greatly affected us all, even in the boating arena). However, I place as much or more blame on the many posters to the now "banned" topics. It is not just the "mods being draconian", far from it. They gave several warnings.

Again, I find this sad, and somewhat indicative of where society is going in general in terms of controlling, restricting, limiting, influencing, shaping, etc. our communications and even our thoughts. In many ways, we now are being limited (much more than ever before) in what we can say (or at least we have to be very, very, very careful), we can't even engage in a discussion about several subjects even on an academic level (not here on TF just in general). People are being silenced (even well respected subject matter experts) if they don't parrot the "accepted" narrative. Sad indeed.
My intent here is not controversy or even to change this decision (at this point, I tried that already), but just to generate some careful thought and consideration about the ideas presented.
To the mods, thanks for all you do. You are often put in situations where you are "damned if you do and damned if you don't". It is not easy and I get that!!!

I hope no one finds this post too controversial and certainly not "offensive" in any way, as that is not my intent at all.
If I was one of those on the threads that are now banned whose posts "contributed" to this, or if anything I posted offended anyone, please accept my apologies.
I hope this post does not get deleted, as IMHO, it adds to this discussion giving some views that are somewhat "alternative" (in a respectful way) to those posted supporting the decision and even asking for "more".
Thanks.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/misc.php?do=sknetwork&page=rules

Thank you. I honestly didn't know.

 

[Benthic2]

No one is forced to read a Covid thread, and everyone who goes there knows what they are in for. Didn't the recent active thread have over 200 posts ?? That tells you that people were following and contributing to the topic. If anyone wandered in there by accident they knew what it was all about after reading the first page, and many many people kept coming back. To me, that proves it had value.

I am not sure what capability the mods have, but there should be a way for them to deem a thread off the rails without shutting it down. Some sort of warning box that says "This thread is only tangentially related to boating and contains controversial subject matter, proceed at your own risk"

We have had threads about good books, recomended movies and wristwatches, so I question whether these restrictions are really because covid isn't boating related, but are instead because of the controversial nature of the topic. Perhaps if a thread gets past a certain point it could just be categorized as "unmoderated". I don't want to see the mods' jobs become too time consuming, but I also don't think we need protection from alternate opinions. In fact, hearing from people outside of our own echo chamber might be just what we need to close the divisive gaps in our society, whether they are political, economic geographic or otherwise.

 

[firehoser75]

I would not miss the whole misnamed Harbor Chat sub forum if it went away.

Rich,
I agree with most of your posts (in general), but to this I say, then don't look there
Just because you don't like chocolate ice cream doesn't mean it should be banned. Just don't eat it.:lol:
Interesting diversity of opinions.

 

[BandB]

We have had an increasing number of posts in this section of the forum that are wildly off topic, raising hackles and causing an unreasonable level of rancor. It has been disheartening to witness and has reduced the generally pleasant vibe of the Trawler Forum substantially.

Most people have long ago formed opinions and will not be swayed by further debate. This toxic back and forth spills out into other sections of the forum and reduces the helpful and friendly discussion that is the hallmark of the Trawler forum. Your volunteer site team is tired of patrolling the covid playground; quelling dustups that serve no real purpose and we ask for your help as we do some remodeling in the covid forum.

The Covid Forum will remain open but with new regs.

Topics should be directly related to boating and transit issues.

We have closed most old covid topics leaving a few that appear to be on topic and I encourage you to review the restated rules when posting in this section of the forum: https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=865740&postcount=1

Posts that run afoul of the rules may be deleted without explanation. Older threads and threads that begin to wander off topic will be routinely closed to avoid re-infection.

You can help: There are plenty of fine places on the internet to engage in general debate but we are a boating forum. Help us stay focused on the the thing that we share in common - an interest in boating. When discussions begin to wander astray, make a choice to not engage. Instead, hit the report post button on posts that seem counter to the intent of the covid forum and let the site team manage the issue. Let's get back to discussing boats, brightwork, bottoms and bilges.


Thanks for understanding

Wifey B: 100% agree with the decision. Indisputable facts like the latest on border crossings and transit rules, like access to ports or marinas, are useful. The forum gained from the incredible contributions of two and then a third medical professional, loses again from the loss of one of those as an active member, but mostly loses from the ugliness that came through.

One thing that sadly happens when political and social ideology follow, and make no mistake this did become political, is that it creates such distaste and each time there are members who can never think of other members the same again. That has greater impact than just on those members, it impacts how they think of the forum. The forum is represented by the whole of membership and if I find a small portion of the membership to be distasteful or even disgusting in some ways, then ultimately the forum itself is less attractive and slowly one's time here decreases and they avoid more and more discussions. We've lost some very fine members over the years.

There are members who expressed opposite views from mine but in respectful, well thought out, educated ways. I respect them. However, as the discussion devolved there were those who said things and showed things about themselves I can't forget and I will never again look at those members as I did before. It's a reason we're not active on facebook. Too often the things people write there make you think less of them. We prefer not to know that aspect of our acquaintances. We prefer not to know those things about our acquaintances on this forum and to think well of all people here, but when politics, social views, religion, morality, ethnic and national views come into play we just learn too much.

I think we all benefit when we can think of this forum as a group of very nice and cordial boaters. We realize they may have a lot of different views on non boating things and may conduct their lives differently, but what we don't know doesn't hurt us. We blindly think of them as nice and likeable boaters. If we want to know them further we can private message or email.

I also know such off topic discussions have led to many here strongly disliking my husband and myself. Simply put, we can't ignore certain things said, things against the forum policies but allowed occasionally. Then we're labeled things like "holier than thou" or more mildly "liberal" or "socialists" or other things meant negatively. So be it as we're not going to ignore things we find so distasteful such as attacks on a nationality or an ethnic group or bigotry or demeaning those struggling and suffering or disregard for laws or for societal benefits. It's our preference, however, to not have those topics here and not feel compelled to respond and just talk about boating. We did bow out long ago of posting in the Covid forums but some things written made our stomachs turn and I'm sure had we responded others would have found our responses offensive. That's what happens when topics are introduced. People show other sides and are disliked then for nothing to do with boating. That's sad. That said, it's the job of the forum administrators and moderators to prevent it and the way to do that is not letting it get started. That's why I applaud this move.

 

[Shrew]

Didn't the recent active thread have over 200 posts ?? That tells you that people were following and contributing to the topic.
....

I am not sure what capability the mods have, but there should be a way for them to deem a thread off the rails without shutting it down. Some sort of warning box that says "This thread is only tangentially related to boating and contains controversial subject matter, proceed at your own risk"

What you don't see are the countless deleted posts within the thread. Then there are the posts the get deleted (in an effort to keep the thread open), but they folks start quoting the post before the offending post gets deleted, then side discussions over certain aspects of deleted posts get discussed.

Now the quoted post has to be dealt with. If the response isn't breaking a rule, but the quote is removed, the response now becomes out of context. The same with responses/comments to aspects of a deleted post. The response or comment makes no sense and the entire thread becomes non-sensical. The fact that you don't notice this is a result of the work to keep the threads cleaned up behind the scenes.

Some of these threads have more deleted posts than actual posts. (How much of the leg does the surgeon need to remove before he simply needs to remove the entire leg?).

Poring through the individual posts, internal discussions, and PM notifications take HOURS.

In fact, we DO have posted rules both as per the forum rules and the disclaimers in the sub-forum. The problem is, some folks accidentally infract those rules in their passionate attempts to convince others of the basis of their own personal belief systems.

 

[Benthic2]

Thanks Shrew. While I like the "wild west atmosphere" that some threads take on knowing I can just leave if its too much for me, if those things impact the mods job so much that it could impact the rest of the forum then that would be an unfortunate unintended consequence, and I can see the need to keep things from getting to wild.

I differ from B&B in that I like to know what people think on things that I feel knowledgeable about so I can have a better feel for what they say on things that I am trying to learn about. For example if I know someone is a flat earther, I will probably not give too much credence to any navigation advice they might have. I do admit that those threads do change opinions of others and reduce the collegial atmosphere though.

 

[toocoys]

Some of these threads have more deleted posts than actual posts. (How much of the leg does the surgeon need to remove before he simply needs to remove the entire leg?).

Y'all probably wouldn't have to work so hard if A.) you just deleted the sub forum, and B.) deleted entire threads without discretion.

Leaving the sub forum there is like hanging crack in front of a crack head. You can tell them that the rules state they can't have the crack, but inevitably someone is going to smoke it.

And picking and choosing which response you're going to delete implies that there is a fluctuating level of tolerance - favoritism. Deleting the entire thread at the first sign of a tangent reinforces what will and will not be tolerated.

 

[rgano]

Rich,
I agree with most of your posts (in general), but to this I say, then don't look there
Just because you don't like chocolate ice cream doesn't mean it should be banned. Just don't eat it.:lol:
Interesting diversity of opinions.

You are exactly right. I do not purposely look at Harbor Chat stuff, but I see topics on the right side of the screen under the heading "Trawler Discussions," so who's to know that HC is hidden in there. There is no way for me to tell if the topics listed there are from the HC sub or not until I have clicked on them. Since I am not generally looking up at the banner to see which sub it came from, I sometime find myself reading HC stuff. I will henceforth make it a policy to be more observant and refrain from reading HC stuff - "burn before reading" I guess cuz that's an ice cream flavor not to my liking.

 

[Janet H]

Harbor chat topics are not displayed in the right side bar however the refitted covid forum topics will display there now. The primary reason for this increased visibility is to make sure they stay on topic but frankly since the scope of acceptable topics is limited to boating related content - there will be a reduction in the number of posts.

 

[rgano]

Harbor chat topics are not displayed in the right side bar however the refitted covid forum topics will display there now. The primary reason for this increased visibility is to make sure they stay on topic but frankly since the scope of acceptable topics is limited to boating related content - there will be a reduction in the number of posts.

Well, I'm glad of that! No stumbling onto HC stuff.

 

[Crusty Chief]

To Janet and the rest of the moderator team.

Thank you for this action, I know the subject kept me in the wings and trying to decide if I was going to continue here. The actions of many individuals on both/numerous sides of the fence was bleeding into almost every subject. I enjoy the contributions and trying to contribute myself on boat topics. Ive tried to provide info on subjects that worked for me and have in return gained so much valuable information in return.

We do seem to have a large group of armchair boaters on this forum, and I accept this as a norm with almost every online social gathering. That’s why I dont engage in facebook or other such media.

So lets get on with the boating subjects once again, please!

Cheers all

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

To Janet and the rest of the moderator team.

Thank you for this action, I know the subject kept me in the wings and trying to decide if I was going to continue here. The actions of many individuals on both/numerous sides of the fence was bleeding into almost every subject. I enjoy the contributions and trying to contribute myself on boat topics. Ive tried to provide info on subjects that worked for me and have in return gained so much valuable information in return.

We do seem to have a large group of armchair boaters on this forum, and I accept this as a norm with almost every online social gathering. That’s why I dont engage in facebook or other such media.

So lets get on with the boating subjects once again, please!

Cheers all

Longest post you have ever made. But I do agree with you.

 

[Peter B]

A aspect to this issue I'd like to run past everyone is something that might help to explain why we persevered with the potentially controversial Covid forum area, and to some extent are still supporting it in a scaled back way. As it is an aspect I have not seen specifically covered, but might help in understanding why we had such a section in the first place.

This being that the pandemic has been just that - world wide - and affecting us similarly and simultaneously. It has affected all our lives, and will continue to do that for some time, even our boating passion has been, and still is, affected.

That being the case, it is not unexpected that members will feel the need to discuss what are often quite personal and stressful issues. In particular, they feel better able to discuss these issues among friends, rather than total strangers.

We would like to think that members on here - especially long-standing ones - would feel they are among friends. So, is it any wonder such momentous life-affecting issues floated to the surface in people's minds, and thence onto the forum..?

We knew it was not going to go away any time soon, so did our best to facilitate it within certain bounds that were slightly more flexible than otherwise might be the case.

This grace time, if I could call it that, has now passed, so we feel folk have vented enough and the public is kept well-informed from other sources, so the need is less to do so on here.

Hopefully now, and relating back to Janet's post # 13, by narrowing down the scope of such discussion to be more boating related, we will move forward and leave some of the stress behind us.

Stay safe folks...