Removing raw water pump - JD 4045AFM

[Bkay]

OK, I've given up on getting the impeller back with the water pump in place and I'm moving on to removing the raw water pump.

I've never pulled a pump before, are there any tricks I should be aware of? It appears the JD 4045 has 4 bolts on the seawater outlet that comes off first, then two bolts holding the pump on. Is it as simple as removing these bolts and the intake hose a pulling the water pump off?

Any tricks to getting it back on? Is Permatex Ultra Black gasket maker suitable for the pump mating surfaces? I need to get this done in the next few days and I'm far from well stocked stores, so I won't be able to source any exotic materials.

Any thots or moral support appreciated.

 

[twistedtree]

There is probably an o ring between the pump and timing case. Should be able to reuse it.

What’s blocking reinstalling the impeller? My wiring hardness was carefully located where it blocks the impeller so I relocated it including removal of a bracket that held it blocking the impeller.

 

[Bkay]

So if an O-ring, I can reuse if it's not torn. Are there frequently gaskets there?

It sounds like we may have the same engine. I have that same carefully located wiring harness in the way also (and may John Deere engineers find the Gates to Heaven blocked by a wiring harness). I was able to feel my way into moving it out of the way, so I could get the old impeller out, but I'm too old and screwed up to be able for get the new impeller in. If I got it in, I'm not confident I could line up the key-way. BELIEVE ME, that was my first choice and a full day later, I've concluded I'm too old and broken to replace the impeller in situ.

I understand from digging through the forum, that upon reinstallation, I need to line up the spline of the shaft with the female portion on the timing case (I think that's how you described it) - how difficult should I expect this to be?

 

[twistedtree]

So if an O-ring, I can reuse if it's not torn. Are there frequently gaskets there?

It sounds like we may have the same engine. I have that same carefully located wiring harness in the way also (and may John Deere engineers find the Gates to Heaven blocked by a wiring harness). I was able to feel my way into moving it out of the way, so I could get the old impeller out, but I'm too old and screwed up to be able for get the new impeller in. If I got it in, I'm not confident I could line up the key-way. BELIEVE ME, that was my first choice and a full day later, I've concluded I'm too old and broken to replace the impeller in situ.

I understand from digging through the forum, that upon reinstallation, I need to line up the spline of the shaft with the female portion on the timing case (I think that's how you described it) - how difficult should I expect this to be?

I take it back. Just looked at the parts breakdown. There are o-rings for the inlet and outlet pipes that are secured by the square collars with 4 bolts. But the pump to timing case is a gasket. So remove it carefully, and be prepared to use RTV if the old gasket is damaged. Or accept a little oil leakage until you can get a new gasket.


BTW, the parts books I think are all on line. They always were.

 

[O C Diver]

On the 4045 they vary a little. Mine is held on with 2 bolts and there is a gasket. The shaft is splined, so it's just a matter of pulling the pump straight out. For removing the impeller, I have a 3" PVC pipe coupling that I set the splined shaft down into. This allows the impeller to be pulled straight up.

Ted

 

[Bkay]

Thanks OC and twisted tree, I'll give it a shot. I got the old one out with a 3/4" 16 pitch bolt. But there's no way I'll get the new one back and get the key lined up.

I've owned many boats over the years and this is the first impeller that has confounded me. At least I now know how to locate the key when it drops from the impeller and falls into the pump openings (I needed to pull that hose off anyway).

Fair winds, gents.

 

[Bkay]

BTW, the parts books I think are all on line. They always were.

I hadn't discovered those parts books until you just mentioned it. Very handy to have on line. Thanks for that tip!

I went ahead and ordered a full set of gaskets and o-rings. I don't want to get things taken apart THEN find out I tore something. I've got a JD dealer an hour from here and they can have the parts tomorrow. Weather is crappy today anyway.

Thanks!

 

[twistedtree]

If it helps, here are pictures of that wiring harness and connector that are in the way, and how I relocated them.


The connector was secured to a bracket that holds if firmly in the way. I separated the connector from the bracket, removed the bracket (you will need to get shorter replacement bolts), then tucked the connector and harness up between the after cooler and engine block.


Now access is much better.

 

[Bkay]

Interesting. I assume you were able to do that without any additional cable extensions?

 

[O C Diver]

Was wondering what you were talking about. Mine is a different pump (Johnson) with 2 hose connections. The impeller is also splined, so no key to loose.

https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s9/sale-1996-grand-banks-europa-46-$395-000-a-62367.html

Ted

 

[twistedtree]

Interesting. I assume you were able to do that without any additional cable extensions?

Right, no cable extensions. Just re-routing and re-dressing. And getting rid of the stupid bracket.

 

[Comodave]

I am not familiar with your exact impeller but on our last boat one of the impellers was almost impossible to replace until I bought an impeller insertion tool from impellertool.com. It made it doable. No affiliation

 

[Simi 60]

Loving the 855 with a belt driven pump.
So agricultural
So simplistic

 

[O C Diver]

Loving the 855 with a belt driven pump.
So agricultural
So simplistic

No thanks, I'll take a direct drive with 2 hose connections and the splined impeller shaft every day. I can have it off in 5 minutes to replace an impeller and there's no belt to fail. I have the same setup on my Kabota with a Sherwood pump. Easy as can be to work on.

Ted

 

[twistedtree]

No thanks, I'll take a direct drive with 2 hose connections and the splined impeller shaft every day. I can have it off in 5 minutes to replace an impeller and there's no belt to fail. I have the same setup on my Kabota with a Sherwood pump. Easy as can be to work on.

Ted

Ted, did you source your 4045 through some non-marine channel? I'm wondering why you have a different pump, and of course yours is painted construction yellow rather than yachtie white.


Oh, looking back through my own pictures I see that my previous 4045DTM had the same (or similar) pump as you have, so maybe yours is a DTM rather than an AFM?

 

[O C Diver]

Ted, did you source your 4045 through some non-marine channel? I'm wondering why you have a different pump, and of course yours is painted construction yellow rather than yachtie white.


Oh, looking back through my own pictures I see that my previous 4045DTM had the same (or similar) pump as you have, so maybe yours is a DTM rather than an AFM?

Mine is a 4045TFM75. I acquired it through a commercial waterman's engine and hydraulic business. Probably different paint to signal commercial versus yach-itee.

Really like my Johnson pump. Easy to work on with no special tools or a hydraulic press or gear puller required. Replacing the seal assembly was easy as can be.

Ted

 

[Jeff F]

My motor is identical to Ted's. Same color and pump. Built 2005.

 

[Bkay]

OC and Twistedtree, thanks for the advice. Pulled pumps on both engines and swapped out impellers and most amazingly, got the pumps back in with no issues. Worked like a charm.

Thanks for the advice.
Dave

 

[twistedtree]

OC and Twistedtree, thanks for the advice. Pulled pumps on both engines and swapped out impellers and most amazingly, got the pumps back in with no issues. Worked like a charm.

Thanks for the advice.
Dave

Glad it worked. I had a Cummins QSC a while back and after fighting the impellers a few times realized it was much easier to remove the whole pump, swap the impeller in a comfortable position, then reinstall the pump just as you did. It was many more steps, but in the end much easier and faster.

 

[Simi 60]

No thanks, I'll take a direct drive with 2 hose connections and the splined impeller shaft every day. I can have it off in 5 minutes to replace an impeller and there's no belt to fail. I have the same setup on my Kabota with a Sherwood pump. Easy as can be to work on.

Ted

And if the shaft seal goes water goes where?

In 40 years driving cars never had a belt break

 

[twistedtree]

And if the shaft seal goes water goes where?


In 40 years driving cars never had a belt break

It comes out the weep hole in the pump. Same if the oil seal on the gear side fails. Whatever is coming out of the weep hole tells you which seal is leaking.

 

[Simi 60]

It comes out the weep hole in the pump. Same if the oil seal on the gear side fails. Whatever is coming out of the weep hole tells you which seal is leaking.

I know that's how it's supposed to work but I have read of several instances, admittedly on smaller engines, where they ended up with milky oil.

 

[twistedtree]

I know that's how it's supposed to work but I have read of several instances, admittedly on smaller engines, where they ended up with milky oil.

Perhaps there are other designs for the pump where the water seal and oil seal aren't separated by an air gap? I can't say I've looked at them very closely to know.