Leeward III
Veteran Member
We are interested in a boat and talked to the owner who suggested we share the survey and haul out costs. The owner needs a survey for insurance, we need a survey pre offer and insurance. Any comments?
Sharing a survey
- Thread starter Leeward III
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Comodave
Moderator Emeritus
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2015
- Messages
- 22,037
- Location
- Au Gres, MI
- Vessel Name
- Black Dog
- Vessel Make
- Formula 41PC
If you pick the surveyor then I don’t see any issues. Make an agreement in advance that you share ownership since it usually belongs to the prospective buyer. And that the owner will only share it with his insurance. You might check with your insurance company and the loan company, if any, and verify that they will accept the particular surveyor.
Gdavid
Guru
"pre offer"? is that a typo? I think a formal offer should be made and accepted, in writing prior to spending the money on a survey. Otherwise, he (or she) could reject your offer and thank you for subsidizing his or her ownership costs this season.
Assuming you have a contract in place and all parties are moving forward in good faith, I don't see anything wrong with your plan, just make sure the surveyor is onboard with the plan and will provide a copy formatted to suit both of your needs, even if it requires multiple versions.
SteveK
Guru
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2019
- Messages
- 5,719
- Location
- Gulf Islands, BC Canada
- Vessel Name
- Sea Sanctuary
- Vessel Make
- Bayliner 4588
Dave, curious why the owner paying half for haul and survey cannot then share it with another potential purchaser. Is it different below the 49th? My previous boat survey was paid for by potential buyer who was happy to sell it to me 1/2 price when I bought. Had I not bought current boat after survey I would offer it at 1/2 to seller to recoup some cost for a non sale.
Comodave
Moderator Emeritus
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2015
- Messages
- 22,037
- Location
- Au Gres, MI
- Vessel Name
- Black Dog
- Vessel Make
- Formula 41PC
The survey generally belongs to the person that pays for it. Why should the OP subsidize another potential buyer? Even if they share the cost of the original survey the seller owns half sort of. So why should he be able to share the whole survey with a different buyer? Or maybe he could only share half of the survey, not really workable. If the seller wants to have a survey to share with other potential buyers then he should pay for the whole survey.
tiltrider1
Guru
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2017
- Messages
- 4,858
- Location
- Pacific North West
- Vessel Name
- AZZURRA
- Vessel Make
- Ocean Alexander 54
This is a little odd. The seller has no need for insurance if the boat sells. What he should have offered is to pay half the cost of the survey if the buyer chooses not to buy the boat. I get the impression that communication between the seller, buyer and the forum needs a little more clarity.
Comodave
Moderator Emeritus
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2015
- Messages
- 22,037
- Location
- Au Gres, MI
- Vessel Name
- Black Dog
- Vessel Make
- Formula 41PC
Maybe the renewal is up and he needs a survey to keep it insured until it sells???
Yeah, something's not right.
An insurance survey would likely cost half, or less what a thorough stem to stern "contract" survey would.
BruceK
Moderator Emeritus
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2011
- Messages
- 13,486
- Vessel Name
- Sojourn
- Vessel Make
- Integrity 386
If it fails survey the seller should disclose that to the insurer. Oops, that`s inconvenient.
If it passes and purchase proceeds, he doesn`t need to insure.
Dave may be right, insurance could be coincidentally expiring, but..
If it passes and purchase proceeds, he doesn`t need to insure.
Dave may be right, insurance could be coincidentally expiring, but..
So the owner gets a 30 day extension on his current policy. Boat sells, end of story. Boat doesn’t sell, owner reinsures with a fresh insurance survey.
Pieces are missing here.
tiltrider1
Guru
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2017
- Messages
- 4,858
- Location
- Pacific North West
- Vessel Name
- AZZURRA
- Vessel Make
- Ocean Alexander 54
The insurance won’t cancel for lack of a survey. They might put it on port restriction but by then the boat would be sold.
Some one might be confused or communications is unclear. Buyer should have a better conversation with the broker to properly understand what is being requested or offered.
Some one might be confused or communications is unclear. Buyer should have a better conversation with the broker to properly understand what is being requested or offered.
CharlieO.
Guru
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2020
- Messages
- 1,731
- Location
- Lake Champlain Vermont, USA
- Vessel Name
- Luna C.
- Vessel Make
- 1977 Marine Trader 34DC
Does it really matter what he does with the survey if you don't purchase the boat?
If you do or do not purchase the boat, you saved some money on a haul out and survey.
Not sure I understand the concerns. Maybe the seller is a motivated and is willing to shoulder some of the pre purchase expenses.
If you do or do not purchase the boat, you saved some money on a haul out and survey.
Not sure I understand the concerns. Maybe the seller is a motivated and is willing to shoulder some of the pre purchase expenses.
mvweebles
Guru
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2019
- Messages
- 7,577
- Location
- United States
- Vessel Name
- Weebles
- Vessel Make
- 1970 Willard 36 Trawler
When I read the OP, my reaction was "now here's a 'civil' transaction where the buyer and seller are communicating on reasonable terms." I had not considered why the seller would need an insurance survey of the sale went through, but I still lean to my original, benevolent inclination. More likely, it's an amicable agreement with something innocuous underpinning the sellers offer to share expenses.
Peter
Peter
How is your assumption different from all the monster hunters?
Without more detail, everyone is guessing. Isn't that what social media forums are for?
tiltrider1
Guru
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2017
- Messages
- 4,858
- Location
- Pacific North West
- Vessel Name
- AZZURRA
- Vessel Make
- Ocean Alexander 54
Op says he needs survey for pre offer. Who surveys a boat before making an offer? Seller is willing to pay half for insurance on a boat he is selling. Why not ask the insurance company for an extension?
No one looking for monsters here. Simply the facts don’t make sense. No one is saying run for the hills. I am saying double check your facts. Making assumptions is fastest way to get into trouble.
keith c
Senior Member
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2015
- Messages
- 161
- Location
- United States
- Vessel Name
- Princess M
- Vessel Make
- 2006 Mainship 34
The owner sounds like a nice guy. I do question is generosity however! When I saw the post I though you were going to say that the owner of the boat wanted a copy of the failed survey you had paid for! I had that happen to me twice in my boat searches. When they called I told them I would gladly send them a complete copy of the survey as soon as their check for 50% of the survey cost was posted in my account. Our little chat then ended quickly.
Benthic2
Guru
Like it or not, the buyer and seller are in an adversarial relationship. I think sharing a survey would be akin to a husband and wife using the same divorce lawyer.
mvweebles
Guru
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2019
- Messages
- 7,577
- Location
- United States
- Vessel Name
- Weebles
- Vessel Make
- 1970 Willard 36 Trawler
I see your point, but for some reason, boat transactions are a bit more like adopting out a pet. You look for a good owner who will take it forward for its next phase of life. At least that's how it was when I bought Weebles, albeit a bit of a classic.
The best negotiations are not adversarial. But I do agree that it is the default position.
Peter
Judy at JWY
Senior Member
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2007
- Messages
- 215
We obviously need more information for this particular situation, but I'll throw out some general points assuming this is a normal purchase and the survey is a pre-purchase survey assuming the boat is under contract at an agreed upon price with the conditions being acceptable sea trial and surveys.
A pre-purchase survey is extensive, usually lasting an entire day for a boat under 60' and is usually 2 days for a boat 60-80' and includes a haulout and a sea trial. Add time if an audiogauge is performed. The surveyor may include an engine survey, but my recommendation unless unusual circumstances is to hire an engine surveyor with an engine manufacturer's specialty. So two surveyors, haulout, oil samples, and presumably travel expenses for the Buyer. Yes, boat shopping can be expensive.
An insurance survey or valuation survey is in-water, few mechanicals are operated, and the boat never leaves the dock, neither for sea trial nor haulout. So the expense of an insurance survey is relatively minor. If a Seller needs to negotiate the insurance survey expense, it would make me question his diligence to more costlier items.
The pre-purchase survey is critical to the Buyer, as well as is necessary should there be insurance or financing involved. If s/he buys the boat, the survey is only the first of checks written with a comma in the numericals. If s/he doesn't buy the boat because of the survey, why did unexpected items show up or why didn't the owner disclose this or that? So the Buyer is usually a bit annoyed at having wasted money with a few zeroes as well as the disappointment of the findings and the need to continue the search. And that is why the Buyer isn't usually in too big of a hurry to just hand over the survey to the Seller. But, if the Buyer is willing to sell it to another potential buyer, then he may be compensated for a chunk but if that Buyer doesn't conclude, then it may end up in the hands of the Seller.
Having said all of that, even "bad" deals should be amicable, and with proper handling there should be all-around camaraderie and handing the survey over to a seller who is also disappointed makes for more peaceful atmospherics in our small world of boating brothers and sisters.
A pre-purchase survey is extensive, usually lasting an entire day for a boat under 60' and is usually 2 days for a boat 60-80' and includes a haulout and a sea trial. Add time if an audiogauge is performed. The surveyor may include an engine survey, but my recommendation unless unusual circumstances is to hire an engine surveyor with an engine manufacturer's specialty. So two surveyors, haulout, oil samples, and presumably travel expenses for the Buyer. Yes, boat shopping can be expensive.
An insurance survey or valuation survey is in-water, few mechanicals are operated, and the boat never leaves the dock, neither for sea trial nor haulout. So the expense of an insurance survey is relatively minor. If a Seller needs to negotiate the insurance survey expense, it would make me question his diligence to more costlier items.
The pre-purchase survey is critical to the Buyer, as well as is necessary should there be insurance or financing involved. If s/he buys the boat, the survey is only the first of checks written with a comma in the numericals. If s/he doesn't buy the boat because of the survey, why did unexpected items show up or why didn't the owner disclose this or that? So the Buyer is usually a bit annoyed at having wasted money with a few zeroes as well as the disappointment of the findings and the need to continue the search. And that is why the Buyer isn't usually in too big of a hurry to just hand over the survey to the Seller. But, if the Buyer is willing to sell it to another potential buyer, then he may be compensated for a chunk but if that Buyer doesn't conclude, then it may end up in the hands of the Seller.
Having said all of that, even "bad" deals should be amicable, and with proper handling there should be all-around camaraderie and handing the survey over to a seller who is also disappointed makes for more peaceful atmospherics in our small world of boating brothers and sisters.
gholmesbm
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2020
- Messages
- 25
- Location
- Bermuda
- Vessel Name
- Persistence
- Vessel Make
- North Pacific 49
Scope may not be the same
Be careful...
Depending on the surveyor, the scope of the survey for insurance may we'll be much less than that of a pre-purchase survey.
The seller may not want a comprehensive survey and sees this as a way to avoid some of the areas of concern. Best to speak to the surveyor before agreeing to this proposal.
Be careful...
Depending on the surveyor, the scope of the survey for insurance may we'll be much less than that of a pre-purchase survey.
The seller may not want a comprehensive survey and sees this as a way to avoid some of the areas of concern. Best to speak to the surveyor before agreeing to this proposal.
