Shortening the mast.

[CharlieO.]

Top of my wooden mast has some rot above the spreader.

With the current mast I put my air draft roughly at 18.5 feet. I would like to get that down to under 17’ for cruising the Champlain and Erie canals without lowering the mast.

The mast above the spreader is 22” high, so I plan to remove that and lower the spreader that same amount. That will put my mast at about 10’ long, and give air draft just under 17’

My mast is mounted on my aft cabin roof and I was planning on adding a nice strong bracket above on the aft flybridge deck to the mast and should be able to get rid of my guy wires.

Who has done something similar (I’m looking at you Pete)?

Thanks

 

[PM]

Thee problem will be the guide wires. I certain there are places that can shorten them and add loops and fittings but by shortening the mast you will change the angles of the wires. They may become a walking hazard.

Do you have any plans for the boom? If you can get rid of it and shorten the mast by a little more than the 22 inches you have planned you might be able to get rid of the guide wires. Right now the boom looks to be as long as the mast is high. I got rid of mine and don't miss it a bit. It was always in the way.

I would do a more severe cut on the mast.It is what I did and I am happy with it.

pete

 

[CharlieO.]

Thee problem will be the guide wires. I certain there are places that can shorten them and add loops and fittings but by shortening the mast you will change the angles of the wires. They may become a walking hazard.

Do you have any plans for the boom? If you can get rid of it and shorten the mast by a little more than the 22 inches you have planned you might be able to get rid of the guide wires. Right now the boom looks to be as long as the mast is high. I got rid of mine and don't miss it a bit. It was always in the way.

I would do a more severe cut on the mast.It is what I did and I am happy with it.

pete

I do plan retaining use of the boom mainly for lifting our dingy, secondly for a hammock or hanging chair and thirdly for MOB recovery. Oh and our steadying sail.

 

[koliver]

Charlie:

One of the first significant improvements that I made to Retreat was the mast. My original wasn't too tall, but it was mounted to the upper deck and guyed to 4 well secured eyebolts. The first lift that I did brought it down due to the failure of the tabernacle, a cast aluminum OEM piece that broke in half under the forces generated by lifting a Sabot with a racing weight of under 50 lbs.
I replaced the tabernacle with one made from 1/4" SS 1x4 angle brackets. that was all I did the first year. Later on, I built a new mast. It is taller by several feet. It stands on the lower deck and is supported at the lip of the upper deck by an aluminum grip that reuses the original base location, and eliminated the need for guy wires. That alone is a significant improvement, as I no longer fear decapitation when using the steps between the lower and upper decks. The mast itself is lightweight, being built from 3" aluminum pipe. The original spreaders were re-used, the radar is mounted high enough, I have a stand made of 1" aluminum square tubing that I pin to the back side of the mast when lowering it, that swings down under its own weight and supports the mast on the cabin roof, to be low for entering my shelter. Lowering and raising each take less than a minute, a one person job.

I also lengthened the boom, as it really didn't work in its former length. I then used it to deploy and recover my Laser for several years. The Laser weighs 150 lb, 13' long x 5' wide. When using the mast and boom for lifts, I run a temporary stay from the Radar base to the bottom of my helm chair, where it is bolted to the floor.

In your case, you need to evaluate the weight of your present wood mast to decide if a shorter, unstayed mast will work for you. I think the weight of your wood mast will be several times the weight of a taller aluminum mast, so you might want to consider that before retaining wood as your material of choice.
Aluminum irrigation pipe was cheap when I did mine. I don't know how expensive it is now.

 

[Comodave]

I added a mast to a previous boat that didn’t have one. Mine was just for electronics and the radar. I bought a used spinnaker pole that was damaged. Added a spreader. Then we mounted it to the deck and added a bracket at the bridge deck level. Didn’t have any guy wires but we weren’t lifting anything with it either.

 

[CharlieO.]

I think I will work with what I have for now with exception of fabricating the flybridge deck to mast bracket.

I think my plan is to leave the guy wires in the original location on the mast to keep the original geometry. I will be redoing all my backing blocks for my guy wire stantions anyway.

I will just drill my current spreader to friction fit it lower on the mast and secure it mechanically and chemically.

After next season I will evaluate its effectiveness and decide if I need to modify or replace it.

There is really only one guy wire that is in my way and it is on the same side as I plan to lift the dingy so it really takes no load.

 

[alormaria]

I would dig out the rot and put a dutchman in it. Epoxy everything liberally. Paint.



Oh wait. I just did that.

 

[CharlieO.]

I would dig out the rot and put a dutchman in it. Epoxy everything liberally. Paint.



Oh wait. I just did that.

I thought about doing that but this gave me an excuse to shorten my mast a bit for canal travel. I do still want to get a bracket fabricated to hopefully lose the guy wires.

I'd still make it lowerable in case I wanted to get to Buffalo or something.

 

[CharlieO.]

Any suggestions for running the new wires through the mast ?

I thought since there were four wires going up the inside of the mast they would be easy to replace. I pulled them out with a string attached but could not get the string back through with the wires attached. I staggered them so it wasn't one bg wad going up. I had two tries with string. Was able to get some tie wire from one end to the other but still could not get my wires pulled.

I currently have two new wires going from the base of the mast to coming out under the spreader for my spreader lights. I have been unsuccessful in getting two more wires from the base to the top for the anchor light. The mast is 10' long.

 

[CharlieO.]

I was wondering what chance of success I might have using this. I know I wouldn't be able freehand drill the length of the mast but hoping the existing hole would guide/pilot this long bit. I'd obviously have to drill from both ends.

https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/flex-bit-augers/flex-auger-bit-screw-point-38-x-72-inch

 

[jleonard]

Thats not a bad price at $45 via home depot. I thought it would be much more expensive and was going to suggest welding a piece of threaded rod to it.
You might do that anyway if you can get the rod the same size as your existing hole. That way it could be your guide.

 

[CharlieO.]

Thats not a bad price at $45 via home depot. I thought it would be much more expensive and was going to suggest welding a piece of threaded rod to it.
You might do that anyway if you can get the rod the same size as your existing hole. That way it could be your guide.

I figure for that price it was worth a try, my slight worry is that pilot tip would grab and take it out the side or something. If I'm successful and can resell the bit it'll be worth the try. Just wondering if somebody had someway I hadn't thought of.

 

[fgarriso]

I have a new saws all. How short do you want it?

 

[CharlieO.]

I have a new saws all. How short do you want it?

The shortening part was easy, getting the new wires throughnot so much...:lol::lol:

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. CO. I think your concern regarding the screw tip grabbing is valid. If they only made the same sort of extended flexible shaft with a standard bit.

Maybe 1 or 2 of these with a spade bit?

Drill Bit Extension - 1/4" X 48" Ah.. I noticed they make a 6' version...

 

[alormaria]

Why not put a molding up the front or back of the mast with interior space for the new wires?


I did this because my RADAR cable is way too thick for the mast wire chase. Also I take the RADAR down and put the mast and boom inside each winter so it needs to be easily accessible. Makes for easier shrink wrapping.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Re: Post #16. Now THERE'S one smart feller!

 

[CharlieO.]

Why not put a molding up the front or back of the mast with interior space for the new wires?


I did this because my RADAR cable is way too thick for the mast wire chase. Also I take the RADAR down and put the mast and boom inside each winter so it needs to be easily accessible. Makes for easier shrink wrapping.

My TV antenna I run on the outside of the mast, and have considered running everything on the outside of the mast through a wire mold.

My struggle is having OCD and owning a taiwanese trawler.

I'd really like to keep the anchor and spreader light wiring internal.

 

[High Wire]

Anyone consider aluminum mast?

 

[CharlieO.]

Anyone consider aluminum mast?

Refer to post #4

 

[Bmarler]

Anyone consider aluminum mast?

I grabbed the top 14 feet of a sailboat mast to replace the rotten wooden one I have. Just need to remake the spreader brackets and make a reinforcement for the tabernacle.
I’m trying to eliminate as much potential for rot as possible.

 

[High Wire]

Nice. What was the wall thickness? Sched 40 or something else?

 

[koliver]

Nice. What was the wall thickness? Sched 40 or something else?

In 3" dia Al pipe, sched 40 is 0.216", so way thicker than my mast thickness. Sched 10 is close, at 0.120".

 

[CharlieO.]

I was wondering what chance of success I might have using this. I know I wouldn't be able freehand drill the length of the mast but hoping the existing hole would guide/pilot this long bit. I'd obviously have to drill from both ends.

https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/flex-bit-augers/flex-auger-bit-screw-point-38-x-72-inch

I did have success! I was able to get a 3\8" inch hole drilled end to end. I definitely had to work for it though, I ended up drilling out pieces of broken 16 gauge wire and it didn't come out easy.

I did end up buying a slightly cheaper drill bit, not the Klein.

 

[garbler]

You have several workable options here. I used to build spars back when I had my boat shop so cutting the spar to sound wood and cutting ‘ clothes pin scarfs ‘ is pretty straight forward for a decent woodworker. The scarf joint slopes should be 12-1 for plenty of strength and epoxy would be the adhesive of choice. Not sure where you are located but any good wooden boat shop can handle this.

Be advised however that what I see in your photos is deep rot and I’m sure it has progressed much lower into the heat of the spar. The spar is likely spruce with long grain and little if any natural rot resistance so my guess is that it goes a lot lower than you suppose. I mean well below the spreaders. If it were in my shop I’d start cutting until I found clear light wood free of rot. Then lay out and cut scarf joints.

The other and maybe cheaper option is to walk the boatyards looking for old junk small sailboats with masts about the right size. Find one, buy the mast and the standing rigging, as it, like the mast can be cut to size. Plenty of small section masts around as they have little or no salvage value. Easily cut and fitted out ,

Good luck
Rick

 

[CharlieO.]

Rick, that is what I thought I was going to run into, but the mast above the spreader was a separate piece of wood that was doweled and attached with 4200? Almost like it was a sacrificial piece in case you encountered a low bridge.

So I just removed that top piece, lowered the spreader and will remount the anchor light. The cable stay/bracket will stay in the same place so none of geometries will change. The mast is amazingly absolutely dry and solid minus the piece I removed from the top.

 

[garbler]

Well Charlie sounds like you have a plan and a cleaner solution. Just so you know your in goods hands for quality woodworking in Vermont but then I’m guessing you already know that

Rick

 

[CharlieO.]

I’m happy with how it has turned out. 2 coats of Rustoleum marine topside primer and 2 coats of Rustoleum Marine topside paint white. Very light sanding between coats, brushed all coats on.

Now just need to get replacement pulleys and such for the boom and picking and the spreaders.

The total height of the mast from the bottom of the pivot to the top of tha anchor light is 124” now.

Will do an actual bridge clearance measurement once we are installed and back in the water.

 

[alormaria]

Mine's longer than yours now.

 

[PM]

I should clear all bridges on the loop with my shortened mast but since I no longer have any guide wires on the mast I have it hinged a few feet off the base. It is a PIA to lower it but only takes a couple minutes. I did this in case I need it removed for inside storage or a stuck bridge or something.

pete