Snubber question

[Lostsailor13]

Going to build new snubber for this season,I intend to 5/8 nylon rope,but does it have to be 3 strand,or can I use 8 stand nylon,or even double braid nylon

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. L. I would think you would want to use the rope with the greatest elasticity.

 

[chanprr]

Double braid nylon.

 

[twistedtree]

I use double braid

 

[rslifkin]

Any construction will work. Double braid is less stretchy than 3 or 8 strand, and also a bit stronger size for size. So either go one size down or use a longer snubber if you use double braid.

 

[O C Diver]

I use 3 strand which is significantly stretchyer. If you're looking for a good source of high strength 3 strand nylon, check out Hamilton Marine in Maine. They sell short left over pieces of their premium line at great prices.

https://shop.hamiltonmarine.com/pro...-black---white-w--tracer-may-vary--47659.html

The 3/4" I used for my snubber had a break strength of around 17,000 pounds.

Ted

 

[AlanT]

Going to build new snubber for this season,I intend to 5/8 nylon rope,but does it have to be 3 strand,or can I use 8 stand nylon,or even double braid nylon

Three strand is easy to splice and nice and stretchy. I always use three strand for those two reasons. With the caveat that our cruising area is not subject to high winds (at least not while I am cruising) and so my usage is to eliminate chain clank over night.
~A

 

[AlanT]

I use 3 strand which is significantly stretchyer. If you're looking for a good source of high strength 3 strand nylon, check out Hamilton Marine in Maine. They sell short left over pieces of their premium line at great prices.

https://shop.hamiltonmarine.com/pro...-black---white-w--tracer-may-vary--47659.html

The 3/4" I used for my snubber had a break strength of around 17,000 pounds.

Ted

Just scored 2 X 15 ' lengths of 3/4" for peanuts, thanks to your advice.
~A

 

[Shrew]

I use 5/8" 8-plait.

IMHO 3-strand is too stiff. that makes a better fixed dock line because of it's high abrasion resistance.

Double-braid is nice, but I don't really splice it...at least not well.

8-plait doesn't have good abrasion resistance (which makes it a poor anchor or dock line) but in a snubber application sees no real abrasion, stretches well, is nice to handle (since that is my wife's job), and flakes nicely into the anchor locker storage

 

[Simi 60]

3 strand is easier to splice and there are soft variants.
I can do double braid
But doubt I'll attempt 8 plait

 

[Simi 60]

I use 3 strand which is significantly stretchyer. .

Ted

It does hockle which is a downside, but one I can and do live with

 

[cafesport]

The sad truth about snubbers is that you don’t really need one until you do. That being said you can make one out of whatever materials you like as long as you take into account the continuously varying loads if you intend to live on the hook.

A snubbers job is simply to absorb any snatch loads which might occur leaving the chain’s catenary in place to protect the windlass and the anchor from being jolted.

The chain really needs to maintain as horizontal a pulling force as possible in order for the anchor to be most effective. When the chain comes under tension this is the first thing that changes. Our anchor starts to rise and is easier to retrieve when the scope angle becomes more than 20 degrees.

An inelastic snubber won’t absorb any of the snatch loads until the tension on the chain rises to greater load than the elasticity of the snubber. As catenary decreases so does the anchors holding capacity.

On the other hand if the snubber is too elastic, the cyclical stretching and contraction of tension on of the snubber causes the boat to slingshot fore aft and even abeam which only creates more load than the wind and waves were producing in the first place.

If you look at the specs on rope manufacturers’s sites you’ll find that brait 8 and 12 strand nylon can absorb 60 to 200 percent more energy than the same material in 3 a strand configuration. Not only that, it does so with less damage ie is more durable except for as mentioned abrasion.

Pay particular attention to elongation at working loads, as the breaking strengths don’t tell the whole story. When three strand nylon is stretched to capacity (not working load) it begins to hockle as it stretches. Often times the hockles remain and when this happens the line needs to be put in the bin. Nylon Brait due to its balanced construction does not hockle but once it too is stretched by more than 20 percent should also be binned. The thing is brait often recovers. If your ten foot nylon snubber becomes an eleven footer beware. When it becomes a twelve footer make another one.

As far as braided snubbers go they have way less stretch and thus little ability to absorb snatch loads. They can however be used to effectively quiet chains going over rollers.

Shrew 10’ of 5/8’s brait will absorb 1500 lbs before it stretches a foot. For us that’s 35 knots of wind and it’s our shortest snubber we can if and when we anchor in less than 10’ of water. On your boat it’s probably yanking chain until you get to fifty knots.

 

[mvweebles]

Personally, I want some shock absorbency so 3-strand nylon makes the most sense to me. I see the Mantus bridles are 3-strand. They are also quite long at 22-feet.

https://www.mantusmarine.com/mantus-bridle/

Peter

 

[fgarriso]

Use the three strand 3/4" line. You would most likely be using it at night when you are sleeping, and you wouldn't want it to break then.

 

[chanprr]

Made my 20' snubber out of 3/4" sail line. Anchored in Fanshaw Bay one night, was tested in 25kt winds, heavy rain, and a noticeable tidal current. No problems.

 

[Hippocampus]

Also use 3 strand. Post #12 is an excellent review but doesn’t take into account other reasons for snubbers. I use two that not only takes the load off the windlass high one will do but also spreads the load to 2 cleats not just one. UV, salt and dirt are tough on line so I don’t want to guess on when to replace snubbers as nylon is cheap I just replace them every 2-3y. I anchor out a lot and having strong snubbers means I’m much less likely to go into a marina so overall it’s a cost saving .

I use 3 strand and no knots anywhere. I have taken up with TT and use a dyneema shackle but a bit differently. The admiral handles the ground tackle. She likes a chain hook as is easiest for her to put on and off. So loop the dyneema around a single run of snubber in the middle using a cow hitch and then through the hook. The 3 strand beds into the snubber line and doesn’t move. I end up with a single line with two ends going to cleats. Pretty sure even if one end broke the cow hitch would hold. Know this as it takes me a marling spike and piers to get it off.

 

[DDW]

8 plait stretches more than 3 strand, doesn't torque, and is nearly as easy to eye splice (easier than double braid). For a snubber, you want lots of stretch as that is what absorbs energy. I'd say 5/8" is to big for a typical 36' trawler. You want it to stretch. I use 1/2 on my 45' sailboat. The energy absorbed by a spring (or snubber) is proportional to the distance stretched squared. Stretchier is better.

 

[rslifkin]

8 plait stretches more than 3 strand, doesn't torque, and is nearly as easy to eye splice (easier than double braid). For a snubber, you want lots of stretch as that is what absorbs energy. I'd say 5/8" is to big for a typical 36' trawler. You want it to stretch. I use 1/2 on my 45' sailboat. The energy absorbed by a spring (or snubber) is proportional to the distance stretched squared. Stretchier is better.

More stretch is definitely better (at least up to a point). But you can get that in 2 ways: smaller line or longer line. A thicker snubber needs to be longer to get enough stretch, but it'll also handle worse weather before being loaded enough to cause a short lifespan.

 

[DDW]

True, 5/8 will need to be 50% longer than 1/2 for the same stretch. 1/2 Yale Brait has a breaking strength of 8300 lbs, it is a rare deck cleat or windlass on a small trawler that will withstand that, and almost no anchor will hold that. And it is just the snubber, not the rode. So I think only a consideration if you are intending to ride out mulitple hurricanes on the same snubber.

 

[rslifkin]

True, 5/8 will need to be 50% longer than 1/2 for the same stretch. 1/2 Yale Brait has a breaking strength of 8300 lbs, it is a rare deck cleat or windlass on a small trawler that will withstand that, and almost no anchor will hold that. And it is just the snubber, not the rode. So I think only a consideration if you are intending to ride out mulitple hurricanes on the same snubber.

The issue isn't the breaking strength, it's what portion of it you're loading to. Going beyond 20% on a regular basis will drastically reduce the lifespan of the snubber. So if you're ever pulling harder than 1660 lbs on that 1/2" brait snubber, it's undersized in my opinion.

 

[Hippocampus]

Like to have a loop of chain between my snubber lines in the water so at least some chain is below where the snubbers are attached to the chain. Find doing that means the hook never comes off the chain regardless of the design of the hook.
So 8’ from bow to water. Really more like 12-15’ once there’s tension. So given where my cleats are have 20+ feet of snubber out on each side as I like the hook to be at or a smidgen below the water surface. Would think that puts me using 3 strand as having not too much or too little stretch. Think I’ll continue to use the published suggested thickness as determined by windage and weight and not stress to much about if I have enough stretch.
Agree with rs posts so fresh water hose down the snubbers as part of our leaving routine. No dirt or salt.

 

[Comodave]

Are we overthinking this a bit. IF the snubber does break the boat will just fall back onto the chain and will still be anchored. I would use something that has stretch and then replace it every couple of years. Not rocket science…

 

[cafesport]

Snubbers are more about energy absorption, not stretch per se or even line tension, but permanent stretch is probably the best indicator of when it’s time for replacement.

The woking load for brait is 20 percent of it’s max breaking strength and it should stretch 10 percent at this load. At 50 percent of mbs it will stretch another 10 percent. For healthy brait the stretch will be recovered and not permanent.

Working energy absorption is around 1400 ft lbs/ lb and about 16 times that at mbs.

Looking at some numbers for 1/2”vs 5/8” ten foot snubbers, at working load 1660, 2440. At working load the energy absorption is 1000 vs 1500. If you double the length to 20 feet you will double this get 2000 vs 3000 pounds of additional energy absorption.

That’s energy absorption or perhaps better thought of as cushion and is not line pull at all. This is what stops the chain from yanking on a firm attachment point on an embedded anchor.

For us our boat fully load can displace 75 tons. We use 5/8th inch snubbers of varying lengths. We chose to use our 30 footer for two windy nights and days while rafted with two other
boats (30t and 10t )on either side of us. The snubber was fine and our neighbors became big believers. However the soft shackles (3/8” we have two, one attached to the chain underwater and the other to a heavy bow eye two feet above the water) melted and had to be cut off for replacement.

 

[DDW]

The issue isn't the breaking strength, it's what portion of it you're loading to. Going beyond 20% on a regular basis will drastically reduce the lifespan of the snubber. So if you're ever pulling harder than 1660 lbs on that 1/2" brait snubber, it's undersized in my opinion.

If you are pulling harder than 1660 lbs on a regular basis, I'd be looking for a calmer anchorage. That'd be about 45 knots on a small trawler. The literature suggests a fatigue limit of several thousand cycles at that stress. Sure, a larger one would last longer, but after a few rough nights at 45 knots, I'm probably going replace the snubber regardless.

 

[chanprr]

My snubber is 2 years old and I plan to make a new one for this cruising season. Just makes good sense, like regular maintenance.

 

[C lectric]

I use an anchor snubber made of 1/2 nylon triple lay line and one of the rubber snubbers, I think made by Taylor.

THe line is 30' with an eye spiced into the boat end and a SS chain hook spliced into the anchor end. THe rubber snubber is near the anchor end.

I ensure a chain loop drops past the snubber and chain connection so won't lose the connection.

I only let out enough of the snubber line so even at low tide the snubber connection, chain or line, cannot touch bottom or it will detach.

Since I often am anchored in 30' to 70 or 80' depths I usually don't have to concern myself with bottom touching of the connection but I still pay attention because once it did touch bottom and the two, chain and snubber separated.
T'was dead calm though.

I Have about 10 of these snubbers but for securing to the dock and a couple of spares..

 

[mvweebles]

I ordered a bridle/snubber from Mantus. They have a 30% off sale right now so was about $210 plus shipping, no tax. 5/8" 3-braid nylon and comes with chain hook for 5/16". Mantus uses very nice chafe guard material. The splice to connect the two legs to the chain hook is very well done and would take me a while and not nearly as nicely done. I can splice double braid pretty quickly. 3-braid.....not so much. PITA

I thought about buying a small reel of nylon 3-braid but I don't have immediate use for more than the 50-feet a bridle would take. At a little over $200 with a very nice chain hook, seemed like a good deal.

https://www.mantusmarine.com/product/small-mantus-bridle-universal-516-inch-chain-hook-copy/

Mantus 30% off sale through Apr 13

No affiliation.

Peter

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Where does this fit into the equation, if at all?

 

[mvweebles]

Greetings,
Where does this fit into the equation, if at all?

I've used those for dock lines in high surge areas. Personally, I think they are a bit too elastic for use as a snubber, though fewer wraps around the rubber core results in less shock absorbancy so maybe there is a happy medium. But maybe someone has used one for a snubber and has a different perspective.

Peter

 

[darkside]

1/2 inch 3 strand nylon as a bridle is plenty.
Has anyone ever broken a snubber or bridle?
I don't bother with splicing, a bowline with duct tape on the tail is all you need.