Source of my overheating?

[Blue Heron]

Mechanic thinks this is the culprit...

included is my Perk owners / oper manual showing the 33 quart capacity.

What isnt seen in this pic is the copper tube is completely blocked in some areas and the lower riser is severly corroded. Mech thinks a hole is present allowing the coolant to enter the exhaust and thus thats where it is going.

You can see coolant resididual in the rubber fitting at top.

I am hopeful that when the engine shut down I didnt do any damage to the Head or Gasket. We will see..

 

[skipperdude]

What does your mechanic say caused the engine to shut down.

Unless you realy do have a overheating auto shut down you are in deep dodo.
SD

 

[G DUb]

Which 6.354 engine do you have?

 

[Blue Heron]

Skipperdude,

Not sure. RPM's decayed at idle speed when I was trying to bring it to dock and engine quit. This coincided with the High Temp alarm and he thinks it is possible it stalled at low rpm high temp and trying to put it into gear. Still looking for the auto shut down sensor.

Confirmed the Overtemp was likely caused by the blockage in the tubestack. Did a pressure test and confirmed the exchanger is shot.

We are trying to verify IF there is indeed an auto shutdown. I know it shut down before on the trip home after I bought it in May, when we had an overheat issue due to high RPM running and shaking out the previous rust (no pun intended) from the boat sitting dockside for so long with little usage. Mech doesnt think the gasket is blown, but will test when the new exchanger comes in. Still have residual fluid in the exchanger and no tell tales of coolant in oil or drips etc.. trying to locate more info.

G Dub, Engine is 6.354 (M) series 4 built in 85

 

[rwidman]

The "auto shutdown" may be when the pistons expand in their bores from excess heat.

 

[Blue Heron]

RW, I hope not. I understand what youre saying and yes it is possible. Mech doesnt think so and one possibility is the aftermarket Fire Suppression Halon system in my engine room. It requires a Auto shut down for low oil and high temp.... it may be installed. I havent had a chance to look any further into it due to limited time. One thing in my favor, these are pretty sturdy engines and yes even forgiving and in the 27 years of its service I am not the first to overheat it. It was at idle RPM when I was attempting to dock and wasnt run for longer than 15 minutes before it shut down. So there is a very high probability I dodged a bullet.
the conditions of the tube and the elbows shows the poor maintenance the engines suffered and I am determined to make them right.

 

[Blue Heron]

I dont mind the chuckling at my expense. ;-)

 

[bobofthenorth]

I dunno who is chuckling but it sure isn't me. My experience has been if it gets hot enough to shut down then likely I'm gonna have to get out the chequebook. Hope that's not the case for you.

 

[Blue Heron]

I know Bob, Im hopeful that no damage was done. Heat Exchanger alone was hard to find and I have to get custom manufactured elbows... Luckily the track record for these Perkins is very good. Its a crap shoot and I wont know until I get the engine put back together. I am optimistic.. I noticed the Temp climb and reduced the RPMS to Idle for the trip in and the temp alarm didnt sound until I went to dock the boat and then it wasnt audible for long. I am a believer in these cast iron motors.

 

[swampu]

I'm glad your were at idle. Nothing nicer than new stuff to bolt on. If you do have to replace the head gasket than you will be able to check out the cylinder walls and see if there is any damage. Good luck, looks like were both chasing gremlins.

 

[Blue Heron]

Thanks Swampu

 

[Blue Heron]

Swampu, what is the gremlin your hunting?

 

[Forkliftt]

BH,
Have you spun the engine over by hand (with a pull bar) since the shut down? This might give you a little peace of mind if it feels smooth. If you seized a piston you would know for sure. It's a PITA without the correct tool, but you may want to cut the engine oil filter open and spread the pleats out and inspect them. If this is clean, these are indications you are probably OK as you wait patiently on your parts!

 

[Blue Heron]

Fork,

I have not. Great Idea.
Good call on the oil filter.. I should see metal if I have an issue right?
so far oil looks good and not increased in level or in consistency, now to open the oil filter..

 

[Forkliftt]

Yes on the metal. It's actually done more to look for a rod/ mainbearing starting to fail but I would think If you actually had a galled piston you might see an indication I the pleats. I don't have a filter cutter but will one day. We had one when I worked for the Cat dealer and it operates sort of like a copper tubing cutter. I usually put the filter in a vice and use a hack saw or SawzAll and cut the end of near the threaded base. Pull the pleating out and inspect a section of it for any contaminates. I sometimes use a magnet to confirm it is metal. I REALLY don't think you will find anything. Those old Perkins are rugged!

 

[Blue Heron]

Fork,
thanks for the idea. We'll see how it goes. I am pretty optomistic..

 

[swampu]

Swampu, what is the gremlin your hunting?

My issue is the transmission. I lost pressure and foward gear. Checked a few things and pulled the transmission for a rebuild. The boat was in a fire and the transmission was about ground zero, thus I thought the seals were bad. Got the thing back, bolted it on and boom, still no foward gear. Now I have taken the pump off to have it looked at. Some of the trash from the fire may have gotten stuck in the bypass. Expensive lesson but I did get a rebuilt trans out of the deal. I should have hired the mechanic before I pulled it out but I was trying to do it myself. At least everyone is in agreement that the rebuild was probably for the better, because the seals would have had some damage from the fire.

 

[Blue Heron]

Do you have velvet drives?

 

[swampu]

Do you have velvet drives?

No I have the allison with the external pump. Great big transmission. Hell great big pump too. Oh yea buy the way the pump was shot. Bad bearing for a long time make bad shafts. Guy even said it looked like it went underwater.

 

[Blue Heron]

Swampu
You gonna be up and running soon?

 

[Blue Heron]

Forklift,
Thanks for the great idea ! Exactly why I Posted here, good ideas with no acrimony! Didn't even need a pull bar. Was able to grab enough torque on the lower drive pully and turn through a full compression cycle. Pistons went up and down and aux drive shaft to raw water turned smooth also. Was able to duplicate also on port engine So I am hopeful I am out of the woods as far as a seized or damaged piston or cylinder. Oil looks fantastic also. I'm hopeful it will be a straight pull and replace and be back in business.
Will report how the install goes when I get the new parts.

Looking good so far?

 

[Per]

BH - I do admire your optimism!
I'd be interested in hearing more about the "ghost" auto shut down.
I have similar fire protection in my ER and it might make sense if the shutdown is combined.

 

[Blue Heron]

Thanks Per. I think Optimism is a common trait among those if us who choose to play and live by the sea!

I am trying to figure out how it shut down and this is what was suggested to me. If as Rick states, I do not have a shut down, and I have no damage to my motor, and I shut down, then some thing caused it.. I like to know more because I dont believe in ghosts!

 

[swampu]

I talked to the shop a little before five and they said by monday I should have the pump. My mechanic seemed to have dumped about 2 gallons of oil in the bilge, suprise suprise. Been cleaning that all evening. Up and running sooner than later. Do you have a damper in the intake? BH.

 

[Tom.B]

Mine cutoff in the fairway two weeks ago... It was a throttle cable out of adjustment.

 

[Blue Heron]

Swampu, use DAWN it cuts the oil.. big time..

Gonzo, could be the answer. I did recently change the injection pump like less than 20 minutes of engine run time

 

[Blue Heron]

Well finally got the parts and the Heat Exchanger removed and replaced. Totally corroded and root of the problem. Holding all coolant for now. Unfortunantely a Tropical storm/Hurricane is coming so I am pulling my boat out tomorrow before I can really sea trial it.. sea trial will be a dock manuever and short cruise to the haul out slip.. I will work them in a few days after this has passed. So far, no sign of head gasket issues or damage.... CANNOT find shutdown sensor.. Mech thinks RPM decayed and engine simply shut down or stalled when it failed to respond to my increase in gear/throttle could have been related to the fuel injection pump install that I also was sea trialing when it overheated.
no matter, so far purring solid perkins and new Heat Exchangers,, will report in a couple of days.

 

[Tom.B]

Where did you get the parts?

 

[Blue Heron]

Gonzo,
MESA engineering, Fairhope alabama. 'Mark' is the engineer. He is who I coordinated with. Top rate. I got the Bowman HX from TAD diesel. 'Shari' is who I worked with there. If anyone does this repair/replace, let me know there were some subtle "nuances" to contend with.

 

[Forkliftt]

Well finally got the parts and the Heat Exchanger removed and replaced. Totally corroded and root of the problem. Holding all coolant for now. Unfortunantely a Tropical storm/Hurricane is coming so I am pulling my boat out tomorrow before I can really sea trial it.. sea trial will be a dock manuever and short cruise to the haul out slip.. I will work them in a few days after this has passed. So far, no sign of head gasket issues or damage.... CANNOT find shutdown sensor.. Mech thinks RPM decayed and engine simply shut down or stalled when it failed to respond to my increase in gear/throttle could have been related to the fuel injection pump install that I also was sea trialing when it overheated.
no matter, so far purring solid perkins and new Heat Exchangers,, will report in a couple of days.

Pretty