ST34 2011 odour issue

[Niceneasy]

We own a ST34 2011 which we bought late 2016. We absolutely love it but we do occationally experience a slight odour problem related to the head / holding tank setup. I have checked everything for leaks but it all seems to be in good order. Also if it was a leak I assume it would most likely smell bad all the time. The problem is not directly related to how full the tank is either so a bit at loss here?

My question is if anybody have had similar issues and can recommend a solution? I have checked the owners manual to see if there is a holding tank ventilation tube installed which might have an active carbon filter that I can try to replace but it doesn’t seem like there is??

Any advice would be much appreciated

Greeting from Denmark

 

[DavidM]

Peggie Hall is the expert on this subject and hopefully she will chime in, but for now here are a couple of suggestions to try:

The head hose may be the problem. After a while the insides permeate the hose and coat the outside of the hose. So take a wet paper towel, wipe down a section of the hose and then smell it. Any bad smell and your hose has permeated. Sealand makes low permeating replacement hose.

The holding tank requires a vent and I am sure that Beneteau installed one. But it may be kinked, plugged or just maybe too small. Trace it out, make sure a mud dauber hasn't built a next in the outside vent. Also make sure that it continuously slopes upward.

If ok then replace the vent hose with one size larger. You need sufficient fresh air interchange with the holding tank to make it aerobic rather than anerobic which causes the odors.

At the very last after all of the above has been exhausted then consider a charcoal vent filter. But that is a kludge and a proper vent wont stink.

David

 

[Niceneasy]

Hi David

Thanks for a quick reply. I will try to track down the vent hose which must be there, my hope was that somebody knew where ��

I’ll also try to wipe down the hoses and check for smell, can the hoses actually be permeated after just 7 years?

Thx Kim

 

[DavidM]

Yes, it all depends on the quality of the hoses used originally.

David

 

[sunchaser]

Easy
What holding tank treatment products are you using? Fresh or salt water flush? I second a read of Peggy Hall's book for hints and cures.

 

[Fletcher500]

I know you said head holding tank, but when I had odor issues on our Beneteau it turned out to be the shower condensate trap. We rarely used the shower, so I never checked it. Opened it, and it had some nasty slimy water inside. Mucked it out and wiped it with bleach. That sensor “whale” failed and the condensate pump was running non stop which was the reason I went in there. May be worth checking if you have not already done so.

 

[HeadMistress]

Unless a tank is leaking, it's rarely if ever the source of odor INSIDE a boat because odor from inside the boat has only one place to go--out the vent. If the odor is only occasional, it MIGHT just be odor out the vent coming into the boat via an open hatch.

David, I think you need to read the part of my book that deals with holding tanks and vents again...A blocked vent would not create odor in the boat, it would pressurize the system...leading to one of several catastrophes, the least of which would be an eruption back through the toilet or a geyser when you open the deck pumpout cap...the worst of which can be a burst tank.

The three most common sources of odor on a boat are permeated sanitation hoses (7 years is a very long time for the sanitation hoses used by most builders...the least expensive hoses--single wall flexible PVC--can permeate in a matter of months), wet dirty bilges and sumps.

Odors are strongest at their source, so stick your nose into enclosed places immediately upon coming back to the boat--before you open it up and air it out.

There's more, but I'm about to be late for church...I'll be back later. Meanwhile, I appreciate the plugs for my book...it's available in both kindle and print from Amazon (see link in my signature).

Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein

 

[Niceneasy]

Thanks for all the helpfull replies everybody, there are a lot of good inputs about what to check out. Not the least it sounds like I need to get on Amazon and buy Peggie’s book?

The shower condensate trap could actually also be the source. We’ve never used the shower but maybe the previous owner did. Definitely worth checking out.

I’ll stick my nose deeper into this so to speak and see if I can get a clearer identification of the source.

Thx, Kim

 

[Fletcher500]

One more thing, the holding tank should have a vent filter, but mine didn't. I am 100% sure of this and traced it every inch of the outlet line. Every time someone flushed the head, I got a shot of the odor on the aft end of the boat. I looked at installing one, but the required geometry was not available to put one in.

 

[Niceneasy]

Sunchaser,

We’re using using A product from Thetford (the green bottle version I forget the exact name) and it is a seawater flushing electric head from Jabsco.

Thx, Kim

 

[Niceneasy]

Fletcher500,

Thinking more about it we do actually experience the problem most often when flushing. I will definitely trace the vent tube and see what state that is in and if it has a filter.

Thx Kim

 

[FlyWright]

I have noticed sometimes when the wind is just right (or wrong) and the aft cockpit doors are open, I can get the "station wagon effect" with outside fumes coming in, either exhaust or head vent smells. Closing the door(s) resolves the issue.

 

[sunchaser]

Sunchaser,

We’re using using A product from Thetford (the green bottle version I forget the exact name) and it is a seawater flushing electric head from Jabsco.

Thx, Kim

Kim

Converting seawater flushing to fresh water is well worth considering for odor control.

 

[dhays]

Thanks for all the helpfull replies everybody, there are a lot of good inputs about what to check out. Not the least it sounds like I need to get on Amazon and buy Peggie’s book[emoji6]

While you are buying the book, buy the Kindle edition as well. I think it is really inexpensive when purchased with the book and it means that you can always reference it, whether on the boat or at home.

 

[HeadMistress]

One more thing, the holding tank should have a vent filter...

No, it shouldn't except as a last resort. Vent filters actually help to cause the very problem they're sold to solve (why couldn't I have invented something that does that???) because they impede the flow of fresh air needed to PREVENT odor.
[FONT=&quot]
Sewage—all organic material--contains both aerobic (needs oxygen) and anaerobic bacteria (functions in the absence of oxygen); but only the anaerobic bacteria produce foul-smelling, a[FONT=&quot]nd also highly toxic,[/FONT] gasses--sulfur dioxide, h[FONT=&quot]ydroge[FONT=&quot]n sulfide[FONT=&quot]--a[FONT=&quot]nd a[FONT=&quot]lso methane, which is odorless. [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=&quot]B[/FONT]ut when organic matter breaks down aerobically, it converts to CO2, which is an odorless gas, and water. So, as long as there is a sufficient supply of oxygen to the tank, and an aerobic treatment is added to aid that which naturally occurs in sewage, the aerobic bacteria thrive and overpower the anaerobic bacteria, and the system cannot produce odor.[FONT=&quot] Filters [FONT=&quot]make it im[FONT=&quot]possible to create an a[FONT=&quot]erobic environment in the tank.

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]A larger diam[FONT=&quot]eter vent line that's short, straight an relatively horizontal is usually enough to [FONT=&quot]provide the oxy[FONT=&quot]gen needed...but ev[FONT=&quot]en when [FONT=&quot]that's not [FONT=&quot]possible[FONT=&quot], the answer isn't a filter[FONT=&quot]...[FONT=&quot]aeration is.

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]C[FONT=&quot]hemical tank[FONT=&quot] [FONT=&quot]products don't help because they kill the bact[FONT=&quot]er[FONT=&quot]ia needed to break down waste.[FONT=&quot] [FONT=&quot]Thetford[FONT=&quot] tank trea[FONT=&quot]tments are all highly tox[FONT=&quot]ic [FONT=&quot]chemicals--[FONT=&quot]formalde[FONT=&quot]hyde[FONT=&quot], gluteraldehyde [FONT=&quot]or [FONT=&quot]q[/FONT][/FONT]uaternary ammonium [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]c[FONT=&quot]ompound.[FONT=&quot] OdoBan from Walmart is anot[FONT=&quot]her highly toxic product. [FONT=&quot]To maintain a tank aerobically requires products that work WITH nature instead of [FONT=&quot]against it. There are several on the market...No-Flex Digester, Odorlos, R[FONT=&quot]aritan K.O. are the most well known.[/FONT] [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]That's the short version....[FONT=&quot]the long version [FONT=&quot]is in my book.

[FONT=&quot]Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein[/FONT]
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

 

[FoxtrotCharlie]

What the Headmistress said Get her book and all will be good

 

[Niceneasy]

Will do, will do ;o)

 

[Comodave]

We had a boat that had an 80 gallon holding tank. It got really bad smelling whenever a toilet was flushed and air displaced from the holding tank. After talking to Peggie we installed a Groco Sweetank. It pumps air into the bottom of the holding tank so air would bubble up through the sewage. As soon as I turned it on the smell outside the boat was horrible for 2 hours and then the smell went away. We owned the boat for 8 years more and never added any chemicals into the holding tank. No smell ever. Do not put a filter on the vent as Peggie says. If possible add a second vent to the other side of the boat to allow air to flow through the tank.

 

[Fletcher500]

Thanks for setting me straight re the vent Peggie. Good info.

 

[djones44]

In a similar vein, my toilet is surrounded on three sides by plywood, and I expect that, the boat being 35 years old, urine spray may be responsible for the pee pee smell. Any guy peeing with bare legs will tell you it might be a contributor...

Yet no amount of cleansing of the walls, even after replacing the pump/macerator with the associated cleanup for that made any difference.

A dog expert (OK my daughter) said to get some pet pee enzymes from a pet store, and wash the area with that.

Will do, but does anybody recognize this approach?

 

[twistedtree]

We had an elusive smell for a while on our boat, and really struggled to identify the source. We would be certain it was coming from one area, then be certain it was coming from a different area, then yet another. The trouble is that the odors can waft around the boat and be hard to pin point. We never did identify the location, but a friend on a sister boat did.

It turned out there was a segment of the poop hose run that held "water" after pumping overboard. For even the best sanitation hose, the manufacturers all say not to leave standing water in them as it will permeate.

The solution was pretty simple, and has side benefits as well. After we pump out, we run about 10 gal of fresh water into the tank, pump out, then repeat two more times. The result is highly dilute water in the hoses rather than full strength. That 100% and immediately solved the problem. So check carefully for any low spots or sags in the hoses that can hold water. Builders are often less attentive to this that they should be.

 

[Comodave]

We have a rule on our boat that everyone sits to pee for this very reason. If someone does not like the rule they are free to not boat with us.

 

[boater3]

I had a weird smell and found that my macerator pump screws broke. I got replacement screws I have to install but the smell seems to have gone away. I was also thinking it might be the AC system as it smelled more musty to me... I noticed the smell when we were in a more humid climate down south and the AC / dehumidify setting was running. I have only been running heat the past couple months so will have to see if it comes back.

 

[Jackiechamp]

I follow Peggy's advice and I have the book which I love! Just last weekend I followed her plan and it worked beautifully on our stinking bildge (result of a sloppy mechanic).

Now, I have a new head issue after several years of no issues. Our fresh water electric heads are giving off a strong sewer odor after flushing. The odor is concentrated above the holding tank. Not every time....but periodically, doesn't seem to have anything to do with how full or empty the tank is....and it's enough to make your eyes water......It's so weird. We pump out weekly, rinse with water and treat with KO. We've checked the hoses (they are three years old), cleaned the holding tank, checked all the fittings on the holding tank...It's and 80 gallon tank and we rarely get it 1/2 full before pump out.

The only thing I can think of is the lines from the head to the holding tank could have something stuck in them? I plan to dump some CP in the head flush with a little water and let it sit overnight....hoping that will solve it...any other thoughts?

 

[KSF]

We have a 2006 Swift Trawler 42. Like most black water tanks, we have 4 openings in it (Pump-Out & overboard pump (on the bottom), Input, & Vent on the top. The connection to the top of the tank for the input separated on BOTH our tanks. Just a hairline opening, but enough that it let gas out and on the occasion that the tank got filled, dumped raw water down into the bilge.

The fitting was just glued to the tank with something that looked like 5200. There was no inside ring. I guess over the years, vibration and age took their toll and the fitting separated. When I fixed the tank that overflowed, I double checked the other and found the same issue.

I got a nylon fitting with a retaining ring and rubber washer, that with some 5200 took care of the fittings. Fortunately, the tanks do have inspection ports so I was able to reach in and attach the retaining ring. I also installed a Snake River Tank Monitor (tankedge.com) to prevent future overfills.

So, after 100 gallons+ of water through the bilge with various bilge cleaning products (Citrus Orange cleaner from Zep at Home Depot ended up working best) we've gotten rid of the smell.

 

[siestakey]

Peggie I noticed most people on our Forum misspell your name. we should all just call you the Head Mistress

 

[Comodave]

It does sound like you may have a cracked fitting on the tank if the smell is around the tank when it is flushed. Maybe spray some soapy water around the fittings and the flush the head and look for bubbles.

 

[HeadMistress]

The only thing I can think of is the lines from the head to the holding tank could have something stuck in them?

Highly unlikely that would be the source of your odor. My money is on a section of permeated hose. I had a consulting client several years ago who was adamant that he'd replaced ALL his sanitation hose, but still had an odor in the bilge compartment where the tank was. Finally he hired me to come down to FL to find the source...which took me less than 5 minutes to find after sticking my nose into that compartment: it was the hose from macerator pump. After insisting half a dozen times that he'd replace EVERY SECTION of hose, he finally admitted that he hadn't replaced that one 'cuz he didn't think it needed to be replaced.

However, I've seen even brand new hose permeate very quickly...single wall flex PVC #148 in less than 90 days on my own boat...SeaLand "OdorSafe," which has a 5 yr warranty on half a dozen boats in less than a year. There are two that have been on the market 10 + years without a single reported odor permeation failure are Trident 101/102 (on the market for 20+ years without one) and Raritan SaniFlex (now on the market for 10 yrs without one) and I've yet to hear of any either, and I'm pretty sure I would have.

Peggie I noticed most people on our Forum misspell your name.

That's ok, Alan...my mother never got it right either. My legal name is Margaret, called by the nickname Peggy since birth. Spelling it with an "ie" is an affectation I picked up in the 3rd grade, learning cursive writing...the 3 tails on two g's and a y went all over the place...looked just awful. In those days we were taught reading using phoenix...I knew that "ie" and "y" at the end of a word sounded the same, so I tried Peggie with an "ie," liked it, and have stuck with it ever since. My mom stayed with the y as long as she lived. So I'm fine with any way you want to spell it...or just "Peg."

 

[boater3]

The only thing I can think of is the lines from the head to the holding tank could have something stuck in them?

Highly unlikely that would be the source of your odor. My money is on a section of permeated hose. I had a consulting client several years ago who was adamant that he'd replaced ALL his sanitation hose, but still had an odor in the bilge compartment where the tank was. Finally he hired me to come down to FL to find the source...which took me less than 5 minutes to find after sticking my nose into that compartment: it was the hose from macerator pump. After insisting half a dozen times that he'd replace EVERY SECTION of hose, he finally admitted that he hadn't replaced that one 'cuz he didn't think it needed to be replaced.

However, I've seen even brand new hose permeate very quickly...single wall flex PVC #148 in less than 90 days on my own boat...SeaLand "OdorSafe," which has a 5 yr warranty on half a dozen boats in less than a year. There are two that have been on the market 10 + years without a single reported odor permeation failure are Trident 101/102 (on the market for 20+ years without one) and Raritan SaniFlex (now on the market for 10 yrs without one) and I've yet to hear of any either, and I'm pretty sure I would have.

Peggie I noticed most people on our Forum misspell your name.

That's ok, Alan...my mother never got it right either. My legal name is Margaret, called by the nickname Peggy since birth. Spelling it with an "ie" is an affectation I picked up in the 3rd grade, learning cursive writing...the 3 tails on two g's and a y went all over the place...looked just awful. In those days we were taught reading using phoenix...I knew that "ie" and "y" at the end of a word sounded the same, so I tried Peggie with an "ie," liked it, and have stuck with it ever since. My mom stayed with the y as long as she lived. So I'm fine with any way you want to spell it...or just "Peg."

Hello Peggy

Any suggestions on how to ensure there are no blockages in the hose from the toilet to holding tank? I have two identical Jabsco freshwater toilets, one sprays back when flushing. Jabsco thinks there is a blockage in the hose. I also have a weird odor in only that head compartment.

I also have a different odor in the bilge but I think I have traced it to the macerator pump. The bolts snapped. Jabsco sent me replacement bolts but am unsure if it can be salvaged. Since I never use the macerator and have no immediate plans to, my plan is try to replace the bolts, disconnect the macertator from the holding tank, put hose in a bucket of bleach solution, flush out, close the sea cock, and unplug or remove the fuse from the macerator pump. Is a bleach solution a bad idea? Is there something better? I don't want it to eat through the hose..

Thank you!!

 

[HeadMistress]

I have two identical Jabsco freshwater toilets, one sprays back when flushing. Jabsco thinks there is a blockage in the hose.

You're the third person to report that problem with a Jabsco Quiet Flush toilet in the last couple of weeks. The first two were posted to sailboatowners.com:

A Hunter owner posted: We have a brand new Jabsco Quiet Flush head. It works fine in all respects with one exception. When pumping out the bowl, there's such a strong whirlpool that the water (etc.) splashes up and out of the bowl onto the floor.

"paul" replied: My experience with the "geyser" on a Quiet Flush has been that a tampon, wipe or liner was flushed and is jammed against the opening to the macerator at the bottom of the bowl. Needle nose pliers or bent coat hangar and rubber gloves should allow you to remove it from the bowl, without disassembly of the macerator. Otherwise, you'll need to remove the macerator to remove any remnants.

To which the Hunter owner replied: Paul, You nailed it! Somebody didn't follow the rules. Was able to extract the offending object with rubber gloves and needle nose pliers just like you suggest. Works like a charm now.

Three toilets, all Jabsco Quiet Flush, with the same problem. So I have a feeling that you just might have the same problem as the first two and if so, that the same solution will fix it.

However neither of them reported an odor problem too, so if the odor is confined to the head compartment, I'd try cleaning the shower sump before doing anything else. Sumps are full of bacteria, hair, soap scum, body oils etc that make them smell like a swamp or even a sewer. K[FONT=&quot]eeping 'em clean is one job that doesn't require any manual labor: Raritan only markets their "C.P. Cleans Potties" as a bowl cleaner--and it is an excellent one. But it's also the best sump and drain cleaner on the planet. C.P. is a bio-enzymatic cleaner that not only destroys odor on contact, but the enzymes in it "eat" hair, soap scum, body oils, galley grease and all the stuff that clogs sumps and drains and makes 'em stinky. All you need to do is put 2-3 oz down the shower drain when it can stand at least overnight...the enzymes need time to work. Then flush clean water through the sump. You can even let it remain in the sump for weeks, 'cuz although the enzymes exhaust themselves in 24 hours, there's nothing in C.P. that can harm anything. To clean sink drains, close the seacock, then put about an ounce of C.P down the drain and fill the drain with water--again when it can stand at least overnight. That's it.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot] Bleach is a bad idea because it breaks down hose resistance to odor permeation. [/FONT]If you don't use the macerator pump and have no plans to do so, get rid of it and replace that section of hose. Till proven otherwise, I don't think y[FONT=&quot]ou have a blockage, th[FONT=&quot]ough.

[FONT=&quot]Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein[/FONT]
[/FONT][/FONT] [/FONT]