Starlink or Not......that is the question!!!

[mvweebles]

My other half and I were discussing our upcoming escape on Weebles (Baja Ha Ha around Halloween). While she is infinitely more charming, I am more social, thus my 6k posts on TF.

Topic over dinner last night was Starlink. Back of my mind is that it will be a distraction to cruising. My one 'need' is weather, everything else is optional; and I worry it will be a distraction. After I spent a few years delivering boats in the late 90's/early 2000s, I re-entered Corporate America. "On the Radar," a common corporate-speak expression, carried a special meaning for me.

I remember delivering a Nordhavn 57 from Dana Point to Ft Lauderdale. Boat had Sat Phone so basic comms; but also Direct TV that stopped working at the Mexican Border. The owner's brother was aboard and was a TV nut. We'd been underway about 3-weeks and rounded Cuba's west end towards The Keys when I came up from off-watch and the TV was on blaring CNN or something. Quite the culture shock to have the outside world pierce our fiberglass cacoon via Satellite TV. Nothing says 'you've arrived' like TV commercials for Depends undergarments.

Long intro to say I am thinking of just using IridiumGO for weather and leaving the Internet behind. When we're stopped somewhere for a while, fire-up the SL Subscription (maybe).

QUESTION - for those who have had Starlink for a while and are out cruising, has it changed your experience? One of the things I like about our old 36-foot traditional trawler is it's simplicity and austerity. Seems incongruent with with 24/7 communications via Starlink.

How have others adapted?

Thanks in advance -

Peter

 

[SteveK]

Peter, I am on the boat now, with SL internet checking the posts.
I think it is a novelty that will pass and be used as and when needed. So far I was underway and took and made a call. I saw the symbol is why I know it went through SL. That is a win, getting calls where cell service is weak or lacking, getting internet way better thanany marina wifi. When not on the boat I do not have to relie on marina wifi to check monitored stuff. Did I mention I still work and need to be in touch? For me it is a peace of mind I first had when pagers came out. To know you are free doing what you want and not missing what you may regret hours later.

 

[Don L]

QUESTION - for those who have had Starlink for a while and are out cruising, has it changed your experience? One of the things I like about our old 36-foot traditional trawler is it's simplicity and austerity. Seems incongruent with with 24/7 communications via Starlink.

How have others adapted?

Thanks in advance -

Peter

It was definitely a plus as far as weather and general communication this past season in the Bahamas. It of course had speed/connection to do anything anywhere just like at being at home (home for me mean the boats but somewhere that had good cell phone coverage). Since we had SL we didn't even get a Bahamas sim card/plan for our phone last trip so that was a $90+/mo savings

I would say at least half the boats last season nhad SL. But I will say this continues the trend of reduced cruiser beach gathering interaction that started with better cell coverage couple of years ago.

 

[Stabi]

Just like the TV, you can turn it off, it saves power too. So it "Depends" on what you want. IMSMR, you first started on TF with a problem with your Wesmar install, which hopefully got corrected. A useful tool.
As you know, there are probably four different type of posters here on TF.
Some never post at all, just read.
Others only post when they have something to contribute.
Others post quite often and actually know what they are talking about,
and lastly those who post continuously and may or may not have a clue.
It is you who take control of your time, but SL is nice to have if you need it for wifi calling, repair info etc. Just use it for what works for you.
Using SL for this post.

 

[tpbrady]

After using SL for last two months around SE Alaska while still working some, I can now be anywhere at any time and still be available. The company I work for is a SL retailer, so it was also a test item to determine service availability.

The change that is most noticeable is I have access to current weather rather than trying to listen to NOAA weather radio which is poor at best. The other change is think about adding battery capacity and solar. SL uses about 5 amps through the inverter.

Tom

 

[mvweebles]

If I were still working, I would view Starlink as an enabler, too. Long leash. I have an IridiumGO setup, so access to the weather is fine. Oddly, because SL in Mexico is cheaper than US (around $80/mo right now), IridiumGO would actually be more expensive for me. Pay more. Get less. But maybe in a good way?

Don L's post touched on a common refrain from the long-term cruiser community: it has affected the social aspect of cruising.

As a management consultant, I spent 2008-2009 in Midtown Manhattan for Morgan Stanley. I returned about a year later for another couple of years with Bank of America. During the interim, cell phones became app-enabled smartphones. Pedestrian traffic was markedly affected as people stumbled with their heads down. People stopped talking to one another on airplanes and at counters where I would frequently dine alone. Bars stopped having a stack of newspapers for casual reading.

Personally, I don't think I'd have the discipline to just turn Starlink off. I should, but I think for me, would be better to put more distance between me and technology. I no longer need it, but I enjoy it ---- perhaps to the point of distraction. Anyone else feel similarly?

Peter

 

[ksanders]

unless there is a financial concern I see zero issues with staying connected.

We have left Puerto Los Cabos and are heading for Magdelina bay.
This is something close to 24 hours.

Staying connected makes it more fun.

 

[tiltrider1]

What did we do before the internet or the telephone or indoor plumbing?

No doubt adding SL will change your behavior. Whether it’s a good change or a bad change is up to each individual.

I used to have a big collection of VHS tapes for travel up north. Then it switched to dvd’s then whe had a Satellite Dish. Now we have SL.

You won’t find CNN blasting on my boat while away from the dock. You will find us enjoying the Tour de France each night while on anchor.

 

[mvweebles]

unless there is a financial concern I see zero issues with staying connected.

As mentioned, IridiumGO for weather would be around $150/mo. Starlink in Mexico is around $80/mo, so would actually be more expensive to NOT have Starlink in my situation.

In the late 1980s, I was living in Atlanta, my brother was in Chicago. We were both into motorcycles at the time and met-up in Nashville and spent about 10-days going through the Mississsippi Delta to New Orleans where we spent a very memorable couple days that included playing slide guitar on a curb in NOLA with a brown paper bag 'hiding' cheap bourbon. We've talked a few times and generally agree that had GPS and Google Maps existed, it would have ruined the trip - too predictable. Around the same time, I got hopelessly lost in Mexico driving my old VW pop-top "Julius" (Orange).

I guess it's not much of a surprise that on an Internet forum, there is near universal support for having full-time Internet. I guess I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. I just wonder if technology is sometimes a barrier to discovery.....

Peter

 

[Simi 60]

For us Starlink has:-

1) Allowed us to get weather , visually track cyclones and stay out where VHF weather and mobile does not work
2) Allows us to do satellite overlays on the fly for charts that are seriously lacking in detail and accuracy - opens up adventure land
3) Allows us to keep track of our rental properties - and more recently, sell them and sign contracts without going ashore.
4) Allows us to contact people when out of VHF and phone range (we used to be able to make phonecalls via VHF in the past using OTC Auto Seaphone)
5) Allows us to make repairs or workarounds in remote areas - internet, manuals, youtube
6) And buy stuff online , parts, groceries, wine etc and have it ready for us when we arrive - fast turnaround - in and back out.

We dont watch TV - to many crap shows, pointless ads and inane news stories
But we do download, store and watch ad free content that we choose to watch when we want to watch it.

 

[guy with a boat]

For us Starlink has:-

1) Allowed us to get weather , visually track cyclones and stay out where VHF weather and mobile does not work
2) Allows us to do satellite overlays on the fly for charts that are seriously lacking in detail and accuracy - opens up adventure land
3) Allows us to keep track of our rental properties - and more recently, sell them and sign contracts without going ashore.
4) Allows us to contact people when out of VHF and phone range (we used to be able to make phonecalls via VHF in the past using OTC Auto Seaphone)
5) Allows us to make repairs or workarounds in remote areas - internet, manuals, youtube
6) And buy stuff online , parts, groceries, wine etc and have it ready for us when we arrive - fast turnaround - in and back out.

We dont watch TV - to many crap shows, pointless ads and inane news stories
But we do download, store and watch ad free content that we choose to watch when we want to watch it.

Our use has been similar. We are currently underway in SE Alaska as I type this. The nearest chance at a cell connection must be 50 miles away.

Peter, I can’t imagine paying more for less capability. Full internet will improve your travels in many ways. My wife or I are looking up info on next/future stops as we travel, since we are traveling enough that we can’t plan everything in advance. If anything, it improves the opportunity to improvise and ad lib in your travels since you can manage info on the fly.

A big one that Simi mentioned is the ability to find equipment and repair info and manuals online as needed. You can also contact whatever expert help you need with email, text or voice to fix whatever broke. That alone is great trip enhancer and safety improvement.

The equipment is small and amazingly inexpensive. Get one and you will be happy you did. We at TF can’t afford to have you offline for most of your trip.

 

[guy with a boat]

Ha! Just passed Alaska Sea Duction in Frederick Sound. AIS and SL!

TFers on the move. Small world indeed.

 

[mvweebles]

....


A big one that Simi mentioned is the ability to find equipment and repair info and manuals online as needed. You can also contact whatever expert help you need with email, text or voice to fix whatever broke. That alone is great trip enhancer and safety improvement.....

Very good point. Persuasive.

Thanks

Peter

 

[O C Diver]

As mentioned, I've been able to download some diagnostic manuals for my current hiccup when there wasn't cell service.

Can view numerous forecasts with a few clicks. Old joke: if you have one forecast, you know what the weather is going to be. With multiple forecasts, you haven't a clue.

It's kind of nice in a marina not to need the bathhouse code, the laundromat code, and the WIFI code. To that thought, why would you want to settle for marina WIFI that's slower than dial-up 30 years ago?

A simple word of caution: if you're unsure, don't try it, you'll never be able to cut the cable.

Ted

 

[ksanders]

I'm fishing and reading TF while traveling up the Baja Coast.

Do you need another reason???

https://maps.findmespot.com/s/218P#history/assets

 

[SeaDogAK]

I'm fishing and reading TF while traveling up the Baja Coast.

Do you need another reason???

https://maps.findmespot.com/s/218P#history/assets

You must be high. Spot says your altitude is 56 meters.

 

[mvweebles]

I'm fishing and reading TF while traveling up the Baja Coast.

Do you need another reason???

https://maps.findmespot.com/s/218P#history/assets

With all due respect, that's my worry - temptation would be too great. One of the last deliveries I did was from Dana Point to Florida as I wrote earlier. Was quite the shock to hear CNN come on as we rounded Cuba. There's sense of detachment that I want out of cruising. So maybe I just need to manage internet a bit more closely - avoid throwing baby-out-with-bathwater. Simi and Guy-with-Boat made good points about access to assistance. I'm far from a great mechanic. Good, but not great.

Thanks for all the feedback - very helpful.

Peter

 

[Simi 60]

. One of the last deliveries I did was from Dana Point to Florida as I wrote earlier. Was quite the shock to hear CNN come on as we rounded Cuba. There's sense of detachment that I want out of cruising.

Yep, there is that.

When cruising back in the dark ages we didn't know about Sept 11 twin towers for a full 3 months after it happened and only then because we saw the cover of a Time magazine on a "fancy boat" we were invited on in a remote anchorage.

 

[tpbrady]

Diagnosed a problem with my generator, looked at a parts breakdown on line, put my parts list together, confirmed by telephone they were the correct parts, and placed the order on line in under an hour while bouncing around in Sumner St in 4-6 foot swells. Now that I can get current weather observations, I now wish we had a few more weather buoys to let me know about swells.

Tom

 

[hollywood8118]

With all due respect, that's my worry - temptation would be too great. One of the last deliveries I did was from Dana Point to Florida as I wrote earlier. Was quite the shock to hear CNN come on as we rounded Cuba. There's sense of detachment that I want out of cruising. So maybe I just need to manage internet a bit more closely - avoid throwing baby-out-with-bathwater. Simi and Guy-with-Boat made good points about access to assistance. I'm far from a great mechanic. Good, but not great.

Thanks for all the feedback - very helpful.

Peter

Easy solution, turn it off unless you need it.


I agree with being able to disconnect.. I love to find places with no cell coverage to hide from the world. Due to business I make/receive 50+ calls a day.. drives the Admiral totally nuts when we spend a "workday" together.

But it's just too valuable of a tool to dismiss.
Hollywood

 

[Mambo42]

I have SL now for the last 3 months on the boat. During the passages I have the SL off, no need to be on the internet while underway, but.......as soon as we get into an anchorage we switch it on to get the latest weather, to read the messages etc.

Be aware however that, when the wind shifts, the SL will lose connectivity, will take a while before you have a signal again. If you work with a land line you won't have that problem of course.
And when we are in the anchorage ?
SL is on, but we only use it when we need it. Just busy with other things (sanding, painting, cleaning etc), but it is comforting to know you can connect when you need to.

 

[SteveK]

Easy solution, turn it off unless you need it.


I agree with being able to disconnect.. I love to find places with no cell coverage to hide from the world. Due to business I make/receive 50+ calls a day.. drives the Admiral totally nuts when we spend a "workday" together.

But it's just too valuable of a tool to dismiss.
Hollywood

Mostly emails and text messages here. Knowing you are in touch allows you to relax, me at least.
The alternative is less away time and scheduled holidays.
Some clients know I have a boat and say when are you going to use your boat you are always working (as in available), they don't know where I am when we communicate.

 

[Simi 60]

.

Be aware however that, when the wind shifts, the SL will lose connectivity, will take a while before you have a signal again

This has not been our experience, but not saying it hasn't happened to you.
For us it may not be as fast but we do not lose connectivity
Heavy cloud and rain can have us lose connectivity.

 

[ofer]

I think a better title would have been, How do I convince my wife to keep starlink

 

[slowgoesit]

We have had Starlink for 15 months now. We wouldn't be without . . . . some fast internet service . . . . . but not sure it will be Starlink in the future if their policies and pricing keep changing at random and for the worse.

Looking forward to some competition that will hold prices down and service up.

 

[Tator]

Tortuga-Anchored near you in Cannery Cove a few days ago. Thought you had come back the following day only to discover it was another identical NH.

Tator

 

[guy with a boat]

Tortuga-Anchored near you in Cannery Cove a few days ago. Thought you had come back the following day only to discover it was another identical NH.

Tator

You should have come by and said hello. Those guide boats from the lodge kept driving through the cove in the evening so I tried to give the other anchored boats space when we took our dinghy tour of the area.

We are in Juneau now for guests that arrived at the boat last night, and heading south again this afternoon.

Not sure which Nordhavn it was after us but there are a few of us wandering around SE AK.

Finishing a few work emails this morning courtesy of Starlink.

 

[guy with a boat]

We have had Starlink for 15 months now. We wouldn't be without . . . . some fast internet service . . . . . but not sure it will be Starlink in the future if their policies and pricing keep changing at random and for the worse.

Looking forward to some competition that will hold prices down and service up.

Starlink is so technologically superior to everything else that I wouldn’t hold my breath for someone else to be cheaper anytime soon. I shopped and used the sat communication alternatives before SL and they are hugely more expensive for service that is barely usable.

I celebrate every day that I use lighting-fast internet service out in the middle of nowhere and only pay less than two hundred dollars per month. If it were $5K-$10K per month it would still be the cheapest and best service available in the large parts of world that are without cell service. I would do without at that price point, but it would still be best and cheapest.

 

[twistedtree]

I think there is a big difference between being retired and still working.

I’m retired, so I use the internet rather than the internet using me. There is nothing to escape from, and having access makes cruising all the more enjoyable.

For those working, I can see if falling into one or two categories.

There are those who would not be able to get away at all, or for a lot less time if they were not able to stay connected. In this case I think SL is a huge benefit allowing you to continue to work while still getting in some cruising.

Then there are others where a big part of cruising is escaping the constant interactions of work, and SL just allows work to follow you home, follow you on you cruising vacation, etc, all while you are trying to get away from it.

So the question for Peter is which group do you think you fall into? I think you are retired, and unless people are hounding you who you want to get away from, I’d install SL and let it work for you.

 

[mvweebles]

I think there is a big difference between being retired and still working.

I’m retired, so I use the internet rather than the internet using me. There is nothing to escape from, and having access makes cruising all the more enjoyable.

For those working, I can see if falling into one or two categories.

There are those who would not be able to get away at all, or for a lot less time if they were not able to stay connected. In this case I think SL is a huge benefit allowing you to continue to work while still getting in some cruising.

Then there are others where a big part of cruising is escaping the constant interactions of work, and SL just allows work to follow you home, follow you on you cruising vacation, etc, all while you are trying to get away from it.

So the question for Peter is which group do you think you fall into? I think you are retired, and unless people are hounding you who you want to get away from, I’d install SL and let it work for you.

I'm retired, though I hate that word. I loved my work and could have done it for many more years. I found it challenging and interesting and stimulating. I have been a working nomad since the late 1990's, had bonded PRI circuits as a home office. Starlink is indeed an enabler. I retired because when I looked at visible septegenarian/octogenerian public figures, especially politicians, I had to say to myself "Geez, they've made their mark......nothing better to do now? This is how they die?" So I said it was time to fall in love with something else. Be known as something else.

So like TT, internet is now optional. But like anything there is a tradeoff. The old saying "Necessity is the mother of invention" comes to my mind. I find that while the Internet floods the senses, it does so with dullness. Gone are the voyages of discovery with prolonged moments of stark and bright contrast. There are no distant horizons unknown. In a way, with so much access to information, there is so much less to see.

Things we no longer do due to Internet related technologies:

• Navigate with a map vs GPS (heck, navigate by ATON vs MFD)
• Ask for directions - when was the last time you heard "Where am I?" from a mentally sound person?
• Walk into a new restaurant without checking reviews.
• Get lost, as in you really took a wrong turn and don't know where you are?
• Use a barometer, a watch, a thermometer?
• Lose track of time
• Knock on the side of the hull of another boat at anchor
• Share a newspaper with a seat mate on a plane or restaurant counter

And that's just for starters. There's a piece of me that wonders if this creates a dull, boring humanoid that won't budge until they've been spoon-fed information. A technological teet that has displaced the synapses of brain cells.

I recently traded notes with a guy on CruisersForum. He and his wife bought their first sailboat in 1972 and headed off sailing. They've been mostly doing it ever since; with many side trips enroute to their circumnavigation. With all that knowledge and experience, he has four (4) posts on CF: one to sell his boat, one to sell his Sailrite Sewing Machine.

Sure, one can simply turn-off Starlink. Of course. But I wonder if anyone really does? Is it safe for an alcoholic to keep booze in the cabinet for friends and family?

Long way of saying, Starlink may enable cruising (however one defines it for themself), but does it enhance the experience? Does having access to TripAdvisor-like reviews (a la ActiveCaptain) enhance the experience? Does reading the news each morning matter? Is it important for friends and family be able to pinpoint your location? 20-years ago, a cruising boat would not be overdue for several days. Now it could be hours, perhaps seconds if their AIS blip goes dark. Good for SAR, but what about the mindset of cruising?

And then there is the "I was able to diagnose a debilitating fault via an internet search...." factor. But asking an Internet forum for thoughts on.....Internet......seems to be a silly supposition in hindsight. Tantamount to asking Packers' fans if football is a good thing.

So much to balance.

Peter