The E bike storage problem

[PierreR]

I am finalizing the purchase of a Hatteras 42 LRC this week and want to put my e bike on board. I bike roughly 4,000+ miles a year and my e bike is no ordinary E bike. I would like to know how you all handle your e bike problem?

I built the bike for touring the remote desert areas of the US southwest. The bike is an enormous titanium fatbike with tires nearly 31" tall and 5" wide. It's a mid-drive with a 4 parallel battery bank totaling 49-amp hours at 52 volts. The range on the bike exceeds 200 miles between charges and weighs 80 lbs with all four batteries installed. This bike is rugged as it was built for serious off-road touring. I have another set of wheels with narrow 2.5" tires and a fat wheel trailer that can haul 150 lbs.

My issues are two fold. Theft and salt water.
The bike has a hidden GPS tracker but that does not stop some idiot from stealing it.
All four batteries can be removed and stored in waterproof ammunition boxes. These batteries are the highest energy density available on the market and high voltage. I would think they might explode if they went in the salty drink.
The final problem is where and how to store the bike without the batteries. I don't really want it inside the boat but the electrical system on the bike is more complex than a normal e bike. What experience have you all had with corrosion?
I looked at a couple old threads but e bike technology is moving fast and threads are outdated in about 6 months.

 

[Insequent]

You are right to be concerned about salt water effects.

I had a Trek mountain bike on board for a number of years. It was stored on the boat deck of my 50' boat, high above any possible spray, and was covered by a waterproof bag that was only open at the bottom. After a few years some spots rust developed here and there, but the biggest issue was that the callipers for the disc brakes also got enough rust in them to not fully release after brakes were applied. It got to the point that if I need to brake I would do so. Then stop and manually push the cable back to fully release the brakes, and start riding again hoping that I wouldn't need to brake again for a while. That bike was stolen from my house before I had it repaired. The takeaway is that on a boat, stuff stored outside is exposed to salt air even if covered by poly-type tarpaulins and over time there are adverse consequences. Now regular treatment of key parts with a lubricant that inhibits moisture will buy you twice as much time before failure, but failure is inevitable IMO.

I replaced it with an ebike and only store it inside the boat cabin if I travel with it. Mostly I just ride the ebike from home to the dock for day visits for R&M. If leaving the dock and heading into the Bay I seldom take the ebike as firstly I seldom would need it on such trips and secondly its a PITA stored in the salon or forward stateroom..

Your ebike sounds too bulky for storage inside your boat anyway. It likely cost quite a lot and I think if you want to take it on board you should get a custom-made water proof box for it, complete with rubber o-ring type gaskets where it opens.

I'm starting to think that for a boat bike an el-cheapo ebike with old style brakes (rubber friction blocks on the rim) might be the answer. Perhaps also sealed rear hub drive, rubber belt to pedals etc. And basically consider it disposable after a few seasons.

 

[mvweebles]

One of the threads you probably came across was one I started about a year ago asking about what ebike to buy. I ended up getting a fairly normal ebike that was about $1500 USD and weighs 70 lbs. My wife also bought one with similar specs. So far, we've used them with our camper van which has been great. Also, I've been in Ensenada MX for several months wrapping up a refit. We rented an apartment about 1-mile away so ebike has been great transportation.

I have come to the conclusion that a conventional ebike and a boat just don't mix well. Even if you get past the theft issue (which is a huge concern) and the rust/exposure issue, getting the damn thing on/off the boat is a deal killer for me. Now I'm not as spry as I once was, but I'm not bad either (61) and still pretty strong and agile. Getting our ebikes on/off a hitch mounted bike rack isn't a huge chore, but it's not a no-brainer either. I can't imagine getting it over lifelines workout a dinghy crane or some sort of mechanical lift. And then there are the storage issues you cite.

Because I use a fair amount of pedal assist, I can easily get 50 miles on a charge for my 14ah/48v battery. I view it more as transportation than sport - for boat use, i cannot imagine needing to go further than 5-miles, so I do not need such a big and heavy battery. Groceries, pickup up parts, general sightseeing, grabbing a beer or tacos, etc.

For boat/cruising use, I've been eying the GoCycle (https://gocycle.com/#models). It's under 40lbs, foldable, and mostly rust proof composites and alloys. I also track the Carbo which is under 30-lbs and belt-drive (https://ridecarbo.com/pages/usa). Being compact has several benefits, but a non-intuitive one is you can nore easily bring it into a grocery store or restaurant with you thus theft deterrence is not needed. It would be a huge compromise as a bike, but as "5-mile" transportation, ticks a lot of boxes. Price has also come down - I see they have a model that starts at $3200 USD. 40 lbs is by no means svelte, but manageable, especially in a folded form factor. Given the expense, I'd probably have a fiberglass cabinet built for it.

Sorry I didn't answer your specific question about a full sized ebike, but I just don't think it's possible without heroic measures such as a lift or crane.

Good luck and please update with your ideas. Nice boat too....

Peter

 

[GoneDiving]

When you say "put my e bike on board" do you mean permanently or is this just for the odd weekend?

If only occasionally, then just spray liberally before and after and factor in faster wear and tear. Cover and lock to deter thieves

If permanently, either 1/ sell it and buy something more suitable or 2/ realise that within a couple of years it's going to be scrap. The more you store out side, regardless of covers etc, the faster the degradation. Not what you want to hear but likely the case

Good luck

Regards

 

[PierreR]

Discouraging, as I suspected, what I am dealing with is a wicked problem. There is a lot of them around both boats and bicycles. You combine the two and it's a double whammy.
The best strategy for a wicked problem is sticking with "fit for purpose". More simplicity and fewer bells and whistles. Those of us who seem to like to get our arses kicked ignore most of the "fit for purpose" as the obvious purpose is transportation and our own two feet solve that the best when the distances are under 5 miles.
The biggest mode of failure on my bicycle is the spoke nipples. The spoke nipples are brass, the spokes stainless steel and the wheel is aluminum alloy.
In the end, in the back of my mind, changing habits will be part of the solution but I am not ready to accept that right now any more than "I told you so" advice from my wife.

 

[mvweebles]

... our own two feet solve that the best when the distances are under 5 miles.

Really depends on what you want and need. Our plan is to cruise a bit so really looking for ability to roam a bit further than just walking radius, which for us is probably a couple miles. We'd like to visit some fairly remote places. Not that we can't walk further, but when you factor in it may include lugging groceries including beverages, or being in pretty hot weather, walking is a pretty limited circumference.

But if you're doing the Loop and staying primarily in towns where transportation is easily obtainable, then walking becomes much more practical.

Has anyone looked recently at eScooters? They seem to have made some impressive improvements lately.....at a cost.

Peter

 

[2savage]

I solved the problem by getting an e-scooter instead. It does 20 mph, has a range of 18 miles and folds then fits under the salon sofa. Only problem is my wife says its dangerous and doesn't like me using it.

 

[psneeld]

If outside storage is a must, I suggest the flybridge (figure out the heft issue) as corrosion on my last couple boats seemed the least there. Make sure it is in a container as airtight as possible, and I would suggest researching if something like a container of damp rid would be wise ( not more corrosive).

I would also plan on weekly bike washes if cruising/underway that week with a normal preservative spray application after the wash.

Still no assurance on electrical longevity. Batteries are small bombs, treat them as so.

 

[Pete Meisinger]

Sounds like you have a very expensive eBike. Unless there is a specific need for having such an expensive unit on your boat travels I would skip it and get a more economy model without the storage and theft issues an expensive model has. Not to mention the eventual replacement costs involved.

Everything on a boat is a compromise, that includes nearly everything you haul on board. My guess is that you are fairly new to trawlers, you will learn about compromise soon enough.

pete

 

[DDW]

I solved the problem by getting an e-scooter instead. It does 20 mph, has a range of 18 miles and folds then fits under the salon sofa. Only problem is my wife says its dangerous and doesn't like me using it.

I've considered this for some time and have concluded that an electric unicycle (called an EUC in the biz) would be an alternative. I am serious. they have a bicycle sized wheel so potholes and curbs are less of an issue, and are more maneuverable than either a bike or scooter. They store in far less space, two in a dinghy would be easy. They leave both hands free to carry groceries or whatever. While they can be stolen it is less likely, some have key locks. Models are available that will go 100+ miles and 60+ mph if you are in a hurry.

 

[ScottC]

Unicycle at 60mph?!!! Maybe 6mph for me, if I had any ability to balance...

 

[Marco Flamingo]

Sounds like your present e-bike is too much. I would love to have my Honda Trail 90 onboard, but it's just too much. Too much to get on and off and too big of a toy. Would it be a boat trip or a motorcycle trip? Same with an e-bike with a 200 mile range.

My 89 year-old neighbor (still rides his Trail 90) gave me some sage advice. "Don't ride farther than you would want to limp home."
I remember that when in remote locations.

I have carried an e-bike. Mine is a foldup aluminum with saddle bags. I've carried it in the cockpit of my 16' C-Dory and, because of that boat's shallow draft, I could carry it ashore in remote locations. It weighs 40 some pounds, but with the battery and seat in a day pack, it is only 20 some pounds to get over the side. It has dual purpose Kevlar tires, so it handles gravel logging roads on the west side of Vancouver Island. But mainly it is a grocery/parts/sight seeing bike. I haven't yet used it on my trawler as Covid has kept me from going remote. My trawler has a NovaLift, which would make dropping it onto a dock or side-tied dinghy easy. I made a large canvas bag with lift straps that holds the whole thing when folded. When subject to a week of salt spray, it doesn't get on the bike. The bag then gets tossed in the laundry. Has worked so far.

I let the bike sit too long during Covid and the battery went dead and wouldn't take a charge. A new battery cost 25% of what I paid for the bike. Lesson learned.

 

[psneeld]

Discouraging, as I suspected, what I am dealing with is a wicked problem. There is a lot of them around both boats and bicycles. You combine the two and it's a double whammy.
The best strategy for a wicked problem is sticking with "fit for purpose". More simplicity and fewer bells and whistles. Those of us who seem to like to get our arses kicked ignore most of the "fit for purpose" as the obvious purpose is transportation and our own two feet solve that the best when the distances are under 5 miles.
The biggest mode of failure on my bicycle is the spoke nipples. The spoke nipples are brass, the spokes stainless steel and the wheel is aluminum alloy.
In the end, in the back of my mind, changing habits will be part of the solution but I am not ready to accept that right now any more than "I told you so" advice from my wife.

Discouraging?

Heck after a few years of owning a BOAT in the saltwater environment, that alone is discouraging after a few years.

Until you read where someone with a similar setup has done what you are planning with disastrous results, the recommendations are only that. We are all guessing how it might turn out and they that is dependent on your actions/inactions.

Sure I would hate to have you ruin a valuable, cherished item.... but it's like people who continue boating with bad health. They are willing to chance dying to continue what they love....gambling corrosion damage on a bike doesn't equate to your life so not sure what is really good or accurate advice.

Again, mitigate potential damage and calculate what the rapid deterioration is really costing and then decide whether your pleasure quotient is out of wack keeping it on board.

 

[dannc]

I am not looking for the stories I keep reading but I see reports all of the time about batteries in eBikes and eScooters catching fire. Somehow saw a video in the last few days of security camera video of these batteries catching fire and some of them looked like explosions. Earlier in the year I read a report from the UK on the number of fires these batteries are causing and it was a surprising number.

Years ago I had a cordless tool battery overheat and started to smoke. I had just drilled a few holes with the battery in a drill. Nothing major at all. Put the battery back in the charger and a few minutes later smelled burning electrical. Found the battery smoking like a chimney so I unplugged it, put on some welding gloves and tossed the battery and charger outside onto some gravel. I suspect if I had not noticed the smell, the battery would have caught on fire and burned down the house.

This year I HAD to by a new cordless drill. I only charge the batteries where I can watch them, and where, if they catch fire, it will not burn down the house.

For me, keeping the eBike battery away from salt water would have to be done. Charging the battery would have to be done under observation, and after seeing the security videos, off the boat. I would hope that if the battery is stored away from salt air or water, it would just not catch fire.....

Later,
Dan

 

[psneeld]

The recent Hurricane IAN in Florida has had news reports of Towing companies and salvage companies refusing to tow all electric vehicles because many of them were flooded with salt water and many are randomly catching fire.

I know there are many battery chemistries and as long as you know and are good with yours....great.... For those not knowledgeable, the suggesting it might be a good idea.

 

[Jmarsh203]

One of the threads you probably came across was one I started about a year ago asking about what ebike to buy. I ended up getting a fairly normal ebike that was about $1500 USD and weighs 70 lbs. My wife also bought one with similar specs. So far, we've used them with our camper van which has been great. Also, I've been in Ensenada MX for several months wrapping up a refit. We rented an apartment about 1-mile away so ebike has been great transportation.

I have come to the conclusion that a conventional ebike and a boat just don't mix well. Even if you get past the theft issue (which is a huge concern) and the rust/exposure issue, getting the damn thing on/off the boat is a deal killer for me. Now I'm not as spry as I once was, but I'm not bad either (61) and still pretty strong and agile. Getting our ebikes on/off a hitch mounted bike rack isn't a huge chore, but it's not a no-brainer either. I can't imagine getting it over lifelines workout a dinghy crane or some sort of mechanical lift. And then there are the storage issues you cite.

Because I use a fair amount of pedal assist, I can easily get 50 miles on a charge for my 14ah/48v battery. I view it more as transportation than sport - for boat use, i cannot imagine needing to go further than 5-miles, so I do not need such a big and heavy battery. Groceries, pickup up parts, general sightseeing, grabbing a beer or tacos, etc.

For boat/cruising use, I've been eying the GoCycle (https://gocycle.com/#models). It's under 40lbs, foldable, and mostly rust proof composites and alloys. I also track the Carbo which is under 30-lbs and belt-drive (https://ridecarbo.com/pages/usa). Being compact has several benefits, but a non-intuitive one is you can nore easily bring it into a grocery store or restaurant with you thus theft deterrence is not needed. It would be a huge compromise as a bike, but as "5-mile" transportation, ticks a lot of boxes. Price has also come down - I see they have a model that starts at $3200 USD. 40 lbs is by no means svelte, but manageable, especially in a folded form factor. Given the expense, I'd probably have a fiberglass cabinet built for it.

Sorry I didn't answer your specific question about a full sized ebike, but I just don't think it's possible without heroic measures such as a lift or crane.

Good luck and please update with your ideas. Nice boat too....

Peter

Try this, it’s less than a third the cost. Marginally more weight (only 6 lbs) and folds down pretty small. And colors lol

https://lectricebikes.com/products/xp-lite-lectric-blue

 

[PierreR]

Try this, it’s less than a third the cost. Marginally more weight (only 6 lbs) and folds down pretty small. And colors lol

https://lectricebikes.com/products/xp-lite-lectric-blue

$800 is cheap enough I would consider it throw away. My saddle and seatpost on the present bike costs almost that much.

 

[GoneDiving]

For me, keeping the eBike battery away from salt water would have to be done. Charging the battery would have to be done under observation, and after seeing the security videos, off the boat. I would hope that if the battery is stored away from salt air or water, it would just not catch fire.....

Later,
Dan

The treatment of Lithium based batteries around salt water involves both extremes. An in use battery should be kept as far away and protected from salt water as possible to prevent corrosion, parasitic stray currents and component failures. A failed battery that is smoking or actually on fire should be submerged into salt water (if safe to do so). This extinguishes the flame, cools the battery and provides a controlled, slow discharge of the cells inside. The average boater certainly isn't going to extinguish a lipo/li ion fire with the generic extinguishers found on most vessels. See the numerous battery fires in YouTube to see the ferocity. It's not an explosion but it's certainly an aggressive deflagration.

It's very common for dive charter boats to refuse charging of large lithium based batteries inside and have a separate area for this. This would be a wise addition to a private vessel that was regularly handling larger Lithium batteries that are at risk of being damaged while used.

 

[GoneDiving]

I should have added that battery storage and charging cases are available and are designed to prevent a fire uncontrollably spreading. However, they are sized for small RC car type batteries not 2.5kwh units.

 

[Jmarsh203]

That’s what I was thinking. With proper care it should last at least a couple years. It pays for itself from the taxis you will save for just blasting around town. Need more range buy a spare battery they are cheap enough. It gets stolen no big deal order a new one from a high production company, it gets stolen I’d be mad but more on the principle of it than the loss of money. A $3000+ carbon electric e bike hurts when it gets stolen and with limited production of a bike like that will be more complicated to get a replacement . I’m torn between a pair of those ebikes and a honda trail 125 sitting on the stern deck over my generator. My crane would make it easy enough for lifting a 125 on and off of a dock.

 

[PierreR]

The frequency of lithium-Ion fires is vastly overblown. They are spectacular, slow enough to get a camera on them and rare enough to make the news. In almost all cases the battery was previously damaged. Dropping the whole bike in salt water and retrieving it before the batteries have discharged constitutes previous damage.
The chemistry of the lithium pack also has a lot to do with fire risk. Generally, the higher the energy density the higher the risk of fire. If you are really risk adverse and you have exaggerated the fire risk in your mind, then go with LiPO4 technology. Its low density, heavy, very long-life cycle and pretty darn safe. If you don't want to go very far then the weight is acceptable on a bike. I have bult over two dozen e bikes for various people over the last five years.
The present bike that I love was purpose built for long-distance off-road touring and use from a boat was the furthest thing from my mind at the time of build. The bike is upwards of $10k in parts.
I have options. I have a $10k nonelectric mountain bike that has very few susceptible parts, but the theft issue is still there. I have an old Bike Friday that I can use or an old Montague Bi-Frame that I can convert to electric using mostly parts from Grin Technologies that would be acceptable as a good boat bike. The Bi-Frame will fold and has its own bag. I can convert it for perhaps $1.5K. The last bike option is to buy a cheap throwaway e bike of unknown build. The final and last option is to develop a very real boater's Geriatric limp. I am gregarious enough to get rides.
I don't think scooters are in the picture yet but maybe.

 

[mvweebles]

Try this, it’s less than a third the cost. Marginally more weight (only 6 lbs) and folds down pretty small. And colors lol

https://lectricebikes.com/products/xp-lite-lectric-blue

Good option - as someone else said, probably get a few years out of it. Challenge with all eBikes these days is it's a leap of faith. Maybe with a folding bike you could actually return it if desired. I purchased the Ride1Up 700 (HERE) which is not suitable to a boat due to size and weight. Like many builders, they offer a 30-day return policy, but getting it re-packed is akin to getting toothpaste back in the tube.

Peter

BTW - nice bike. I've enjoyed it. Solid +50-mile range in PAS 2-3.

Peter

 

[Pete Meisinger]

Hmmm, let me think a minute before I add my opinion. I don't want to get scolded by the moderators again.

When a poster advises us that his seat post and saddle cost more than most electric bikes methinks he may be more interested in talking about, or showing others his expensive bike than actually using it.

I suggested leaving the expensive bike at home and traveling with a less expensive model. Apparently this is not really on option for the OP.

pete

 

[Seevee]

I carry a tandem electric bike. Just hoist it up using a small crane over the aft cabin and secure it to the rail. No cover works best. A cover just keeps moisture in.



Just hose it down and spray some Boeshield over it occasionally. Looks perfect after 3 years.


I do remove the seats and battery, and secure the front wheel so it doesn't turn.

 

[psneeld]

Hmmm, let me think a minute before I add my opinion. I don't want to get scolded by the moderators again.

When a poster advises us that his seat post and saddle cost more than most electric bikes methinks he may be more interested in talking about, or showing others his expensive bike than actually using it.

I suggested leaving the expensive bike at home and traveling with a less expensive model. Apparently this is not really on option for the OP.

pete

I didn't take the OPs first post that way at all.

He asked how to better protect it on a boat and prevent theft and he got a bunch of explanations to take other less expensive items for all kinds of reasons. There may have been a little pride in his work and costs he extolled more so later on, but it also gave the reader a better idea with what he was dealing with.

Didn't really answer his question as some like to point out and like usual the thread starts to go all over the place.

 

[koliver]

Can your new boat support flybridge hoisting and storage? I have seen rooftop storage succeed for a 100# scooter, for at least a decade. You wouldn't want to do this if going offshore, but here in the Salish Sea area it works.

 

[Hippocampus]

My father in law would put his wing in the dinghy and take from Quincy to MV. Admittedly the old 4 cylinder version put still heavy. So taking a motorcycle can be done.
Wife and I bought German ebikes. They’re amazing and have kept us riding but try as we might can’t figure out a way to ensure their safety from theft or salt air. Have given up and they stay home. Thinking of waiting for after Xmas sales and getting some folding bikes. Then can get them and the two of us in the dinghy. Beyond storage given weight and length don’t see a practical way to bring two ebikes, myself and wife to shore in the dinghy. So use would be limited to when we’re in a slip. I don’t like being in a slip.

 

[PierreR]

I didn't take the OPs first post that way at all.

He asked how to better protect it on a boat and prevent theft and he got a bunch of explanations to take other less expensive items for all kinds of reasons. There may have been a little pride in his work and costs he extolled more so later on, but it also gave the reader a better idea with what he was dealing with.

Didn't really answer his question as some like to point out and like usual the thread starts to go all over the place.

You actually read things about right. I am a bit different than most people and a person of modest means. I can have $30k worth of toys in the back of a $2,500 truck with sleeping bag and tent.
Paid cash for the boat I have but it's rough and a fixer upper that will require a lot of my time and additional money.
Given the temporary money crunch, I don't want to tackle a marine build for an e bike right now that has different requirements from the Fatbike I currently have.
Touring on a bike is not really a option for a while Bicycle touring takes dollars and time. Right now the boat is 2.200 miles by water from where I want it next summer. I want to ride the bike to loosen up after spending a day in the engine room putting things back into shape. At the moment the boat will remain where it is at in fresh water.

 

[psneeld]

You actually read things about right. I am a bit different than most people and a person of modest means. I can have $30k worth of toys in the back of a $2,500 truck with sleeping bag and tent.
Paid cash for the boat I have but it's rough and a fixer upper that will require a lot of my time and additional money.
Given the temporary money crunch, I don't want to tackle a marine build for an e bike right now that has different requirements from the Fatbike I currently have.
Touring on a bike is not really a option for a while Bicycle touring takes dollars and time. Right now the boat is 2.200 miles by water from where I want it next summer. I want to ride the bike to loosen up after spending a day in the engine room putting things back into shape. At the moment the boat will remain where it is at in fresh water.

I think the 2 segments of advice that discuss frequent washings and plenty of corrosion preventative is the best there is...water/airtight containers with further moisture/salt reducers inside could only help if you can make that happen.

Dissimilar metals on the bike can be isolated from each other a bit by using appropriate goos recommended for that purpose. Worth a try.

Past that....like many things on a boat....corrosion happens and you attack it after the fact but it stems the amount of damage your gear endures.

 

[PierreR]

I think the 2 segments of advice that discuss frequent washings and plenty of corrosion preventative is the best there is...water/airtight containers with further moisture/salt reducers inside could only help if you can make that happen.

Dissimilar metals on the bike can be isolated from each other a bit by using appropriate goos recommended for that purpose. Worth a try.

Past that....like many things on a boat....corrosion happens and you attack it after the fact but it stems the amount of damage your gear endures.

I think you are probably right on this. I am used to dealing with dust and dirt and clean the bike regularly to prevent wear. For now, I will probably leave the bike locked in my vehicle. I have a while before I really need to solve the issue for salt water.