Time to spruce up a 1999 Ocean Alexander 426 Classico

[cdb]

Hi Folks,
I have been reading and enjoying TF for years and have never posted until now. I have a 1999 Ocean Alexander Classico in Sarasota Florida and I am thinking about painting the entire boat. It seems all the good painters are in Fort Lauderdale. Does anyone have any positive experience with painters on the west coast of Florida? If not, any recommendations on the east coast? It would be better if I could find a facility closer to home so I could more easily manage the project, but that may not be possible.

Also does anyone have a clue on how to remove the rear sliding door to the cabin? It needs new rollers which I have from OA. The problem is no one seems to know how to remove the door, including the people at Ocean Alexander.

 

[Rufus]

Welcome to TF. (You might want to post this in the Ocean Alexander section where the very few OA owners on the forum try to help with issues).

That said, have you tried an aggressive buff on the hull? Our 440 came to a beautiful shine after a buff with wool pad and a medium 3m compound.

Our 440 has an inverted "L" shape door between the sundeck and the stairs for the (lower) salon. In that design, the screws in the top track must be removed in order to lift the door up and out of the depression for the lower track rail. (So, the top track and rollers are attached to the door when it is removed).

I have yet to remove the side door, which is simply a flat slab door. But I'm fairly sure it will be the same when I do it in a couple of weeks. I did replace the broken/cracked plastic track rails on both doors a few years ago by simply unscrewing the old track, pulling it out (in pieces), and then pushing the new rails into position (under the rollers without removing the door). The UHMW track was bendy enough to force it into position. Obviously, if you're replacing rollers the door has to come off.

I've attached photos of the 440 rear door track area in the event that yours is similar. The door is obviously removed.

 

[cdb]

Thanks Rufus, The track is a metal "T", on bottom. On top it is a "U". Removing the screws on top releases nothing. I fear they may have used 5200 to install.

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=87902&stc=1&d=1556307880

 

[Comodave]

Welcome aboard. Hopefully they didn’t use 5200...

 

[Rufus]

Thanks for posting the photos. I've searched all over creation for a metal bottom "T" rail/track like yours. (OA didn't have it when I inquired). Finally found something very similar in a UHMW extrusion and will try that on both doors.

I have a hunch the upper guide on our side door (which currently has a cracked/broken plastic lower track) is an inverted U like yours. I suspect the door could be lifted and rotate outward at the bottom (clearing the lip at the edge of the deck) if the lower track is removed. It would take two people as the door is very heavy. If not, I'll be forcing my new UHMW "T" track under the door and forgetting about it ....I think the rollers are OK. If not, the door will still likely slide fairly well on the new slippery UHMW track.

 

[KevinCT]

We have an OA 480 Classico with the same door problem. We can’t figure out how to remove the door without major damage. We’ve taken out top screws, bottom screws, and nothing seems to allow the door to be moved to allow it to lift off the track. Any ideas? Any success?

 

[cdb]

No success, OA suggested jacking the tracks apart. I know that won't work because the door still won't clear the T. They also suggested cutting down the outside of the bottom track down where the door sits when open. That is not going to work either for the same reason. Right now I am simply siliconing the tracks with RV slide silicone. It helps for a few days. Eventually I am going to have to do some major surgery at a good boat yard and build a new door system.

 

[KevinCT]

So—what about a very careful cut across the top of the door to shorten it and then install a new track in the top? Maybe put a piece of stainless across? I can’t believe they don’t have a way to service the doors! It is al ost inconceivable that a well built boat can t have door tracks serviced.

 

[cdb]

Cutting the wood door artfully would be difficult, but I suppose it could be done. A job like that I would want to be done at a boat yard for sure in case it is not successful.

Here is my best guess. I think the top track is two pieces facing each other to form a upside down U. I think the aft most piece is an F track. I think the forward most piece is either another F or an L track. When they are put together, sort of nested, they create the upside down U. If there are two facing F tracks, they are screwed together at the bottom flag on each F. My fear is that they are epoxied together as well as screwed which is why simply removing the screws does nothing. If there is an aft F track and a forward L track, then there is something in between, either wood or fiberglas, that the F track it screwed into. If they used 5200 we have a big problem that only demolition will fix. I would not want to put enough heat to separate 5200. You would do a lot of damage. I might try a heat gun, with a metal heat shield behind the upper track but that would not be enough for 5200. A heat gun would definitely damage the finish but it could be repainted.

The problem is OA's were built so many different ways, often for the same model. All the people who were around when my boat was built are gone. Apparently there are no plans detailed enough to show door construction. Last week I was aboard an 2006 OA 48 Classico. The door and window frames were were bright stainless steel, so it used an entirely different door system than you or I have.

Let me know if you come up with a solution. I used to boat in your neck of the woods.

 

[Codger2]

What about trying to contact N.A. Ed Monk Jr. on Bainbridge Island? He's not involved with OA anymore but he may have the plans for your model boat! (No, I don't have an address or phone number for him.)

 

[cdb]

It's worth a shot. Thanks!

 

[KevinCT]

Still looking at our problem -- the door is impossible to use easily. We're looking at possibly sliding the door most of the way open, cutting the forward portion of the track to allow the door to come forward/out. Our thinking is to reinstall with a white or stainless plate (strap) all the way across the top track to keep the door in place. Has anyone else done anything like this with success?

 

[cdb]

Are your tracks similar to mine? I think you are talking about cutting the top track in order to open the U. Even then I think you may end up having to cut the top portion of the U so the door can be lifted enough to clear the bottom T track. It is possible cutting out the aft most portion of the U track, may allow you to pull the top of the door out enough to lift the door and clear the bottom T. How do you plan to reattach the stainless strap? It might be better to use stainless angle. Do you plan do do this yourself?

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr cdb. Post #3, top picture: Looks like that channel with the screw hole is your upper track and the lip on the stippled side has to come out. Is the lip integral with the stippled surface or is it connected to the track?
Might you be able to flush cut the lip out using an oscillating tool?

 

[Rufus]

I contacted Ed Monk about two years ago. He said he doesn't have drawings of any of these boats, and is officially retired. Nice man, but he's not interested in details like this.

I'm finally back on the boat and looked at the side door on our 440. The top edge of the door rides in an inverted "U". The U is simply a guide to keep it upright. It looks a little different than the photos above, but the function is the same. No way to remove any aspect of the upper guide/U without chopping up the boat. That leaves the bottom edge and track. As I said previously, the tracks on both doors on our boat can be unscrewed and pulled from under the door with a bit of effort. A new track can also be pushed under the door/rollers with a bit more effort. Also, I'm quite sure our side door can be lifted a fraction and rotated outward over the structural lip along the bottom...if the track is extracted.

Looking at the photos of cbd's track it looks like it might be an inverted UHMW "T" with a stainless cap on top. The white plastic sits in a stainless "U". If so, I suspect the metal cap can be removed (maybe with some difficulty), and then the track can be pulled out from under the rollers (after the track screws are removed). I suspect the screws for the track are under the cap. With the lower track removed the the door might (should) have enough clearance to be lifted a smidgeon and then rotated outward at the bottom. Again, the side door on our boat has just a whisker of clearance if lifted upward and would come out if the lower track is removed. There is no way that OA made that door a permanent built-in fixture. The solution is at the bottom, not the top.

 

[cdb]

The first three pictures I posted are all of the top track. The inside of the track that forms the top of the U is not attached to the back portion of the U. However the top of the U is part of the front of the U (aft most portion). This front portion of the the U continues up to a horizontal piece that forms a right angle. This top piece seems to sit on top of the whole assembly and is above the bottom portion of the U. There are no fasteners visable on this top piece. I am going to try to make drawing of what I think this is and post it.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. cdb. Yup. A drawing will help immensely. Perhaps a wider angle picture of the top track from a low angle will also help? I'm getting a bit lost trying to twist my head around the actual construction.


Also, cutting the door in any fashion would be my LAST option and from the pristine appearance of the bottom track and deck, I wouldn't touch that at all.

 

[cdb]

OA 423 door track

View attachment OA 426 Door Tracks.pdf

Let me know if you can open the attachment and if you can read it.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. cbd. Yup. I can see it but where is the bulkhead/ceiling/wall/deck in relation to these tracks? Again, I would NOT do anything with the bottom track.

 

[cdb]

For some reason TF interface rotates my pictures of the upper track. Can you rotate the first 3 pictures?

In my drawing, aft is labeled, so the bulkhead is forward. The tracks are not attached in any way to the ceiling in the cockpit, in fact there is about 3/8 inch space above tracks.

I agree, bottom track is not to be touched. It is captive because of the cabin sides extension, and is too rigid to bend and slide out. It is not attached to floor. Only attached to bulkhead in back of door opening.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. cdb. Thanks. A little clearer now...Hmmmm. It was assembled somehow so it must be able to be disassembled, one would think or at least hope.

 

[cdb]

Like I said my fear is that the track assembly was it somehow epoxied together. I am also concerned that the piece of track attached to the cabin may be bolted and or epoxied before the cabin interior was assembled.

 

[Rufus]

The photo of your bottom track shows white plastic/nylon either side of the center "rail". That is not depicted in your drawing. Also, your drawing shows a tiny radius on the center rail, and the photo shows a larger radius. What's up with that plastic/nylon either side of the center metal "rail?

By the way, that rail arrangement looks like what's used in light weight shower and patio doors. If a nylon roller rides on that center rail radius, the force on the nylon roller has got to be extremely high with a heavy OA door. Bad design.

I attached photos of our side door and my latest track solution (I've been messing with broken track rails for 12 years. I'm going with this UHMW solution because it's flexible and tough enough to jam it under the doors in situ. That said, I can get both my doors off with the center lower track removed.

If that 3/8" space at the top is enough to lift and rotate the door outward with the lower track removed, I'd unscrew, cut, chop it out. There are better solutions for the lower track. (Are you sure that the semi-circlular stainless rail on the center track isn't a snap/glue on to something under it? (I once tried a stainless cap over the rectangular UHMW on our boat....would have worked well if I'd widened the slot at the bottom of the door a scinch.)

 

[cdb]

My drawings are accurate at least where I can see.There are absolutely no plastics or fiberglass in either of my door tracks, top or bottom. There are no secondary pieces screwed into or onto of the tracks There are no plastics touching the door or inside the tracks at all. These are heavy metal extrusions, either aluminum or stainless steel, that were powder coated. A while back I purchased from OA the wheels that run on top of the T in the lower track. They are heavy stainless steel with some sort of plastic wheel. I won't really know if they are correct until I get the door off.

OA's , even in the same model and model year can have certain details that are very different from each other.

 

[Rufus]

The white on either side of the raised rail must be powder coating. Good luck (it's gonna come out at the bottom).

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. cdb. Now that you mention the track may be through bolted to the cabin I strongly suspect that's the same way our vessel is made although all our tracks are wood with a SS track insert (bottom of door frame). I'm out of ideas...sorry.

 

[packboat]

How did you end up removing the door? I'm having the same problem with the salon door on my 1995 426. Thanks

 

[cdb]

Removed door on 1999 OA426 Classico Sedan

To remove the door I figured out how to remove the top aluminum track. From what I can tell only the top track is removable. First remove all the small screws that are inside the track that are vertical. They are screwed into a hidden piece of 1 X 3 teak that is permanently attached to the bulkhead wall that the upper track wraps around. The aluminum track is slipped over the teak. After the screws in the teak are removed, pull the far end of the track STRAIGHT BACK, (not attached to any other track at this end). On my boat is was the port end of the track, because my door is to starboard. I had to gently heat the track to loosen it and soften the caulking and slowly pull back the track. Once I got enough loose, the track became a big lever and I was able to easily pull it off the teak hidden behind it. Be careful because the other end of the top track has a small flange that goes under the vertical track, so you will have to pull the top track out from under the vertical track. Once the top track is removed, the back door easily lifts out. I got replacement wheels from OA but I had to do some minor woodworking with a strap wood chisel to get them to fit.

Hope this helps.

 

[packboat]

Thanks cbd

This is great information. Thanks for replying so quickly. With your description it sounds straight forward. Thanks again.

 

[JohnEasley]

For painting on the west coast, you only need to look a little north of your location. Check out Yacht Solutions in Cortez, just outside of Bradenton. Highly respected and skilled. One of my buddies is having his entire 56' Hatteras painted and all new stainless rails put on right now.