to all 42' Uniflite Double Cabin Sedan owners w. diesel heat

[Frankenstien]

Hey all ... looking to start a discussion here re: 42' Uni DCS owners' experience with installing forced air diesel heaters (I picked up two 12V 4kW Calaer units for $1,500CAD, brand new, complete with marine installation kits) ... in terms of capacity, and, more importantly, location(s) ... I was just going to install one of them in the master stateroom closet shelf area and direct the heated air flow out through the bottom step face of the salon entry stairs ... now, I'm thinkin', why not install them both? (due capacity concerns of having only 13,650 BTUs for entire interior space) Perhaps one each in the fore and aft heads would be a better option ... whadderyer all think?
FFF

 

[tiltrider1]

On uni42’s we would install the heater in the space behind the forward closet. We then piped heat to the dinette, vberth, head and the master.

 

[Frankenstien]

thanks for weighing in tiltrider1 ... appreciated ... I have the '79 model with the angled stairs from the salon down to the galley, to Port ... then a full-sized fridge and my Fwd full-height closet to Port ... my Fwd stateroom is narrow bunk low to Port and wider bunk high to Stbd. ... under the latter, there is a half-height cupboard/closet to Stbd., then moving aft, the Fwd head (with dual entryways) to Stbd. and then the former dinette area, which now houses a combo washer/dryer and a trash compactor.

I don't want to compromise any of the storage space Fwd but could sacrifice some space in the undersink area of the Fwd head in the dead space adjacent to the toilet.
I like the idea of heated heads and could do the same in the Aft head.
I want to keep things simple so am considering just dumping the heated air flow directly into each head and leave it at that ... without running much, if any, ducting or any additional outlets ... unless there is something fundamentally wrong with that kind of approach, that is ... I could pull the intake air from the Fwd stateroom space Fwd and likewise Aft ... that would require some runs of ducting, which I currently have about 15~' of to work with ... (I can always get more if and as required ... I'll have to come up with as many as 4 grilles / grates that will accomodate the full-size (same I.D. as heater outlet O.D.'s) high heat-resistant ducting tubing I have.
Combustion air intake and exhaust runs should be fairly straight-forward from the heater unit locations I have outlined.
Thoughts?
Thanks, FFF

 

[Okydowky]

I would be careful with heating your head areas. At best it’s tough to stop odor issues in that area, let it be hoses or older heads. If you add heat you probably speed up fermentation of bacteria not only from sewage but also salt water left in bowl.
I know you wouldn’t have it 90 deg in there but it will be a lot hotter than the rest of the boat.
It does not take much heat to dry out pee traps, jockey valves or old gaskets.

 

[Frankenstien]

Okydowky ... good advice ... I hadn't considered those factors ... and that's why I'm soliciting advice here ... I reckon many folks have been there done that with a model just like mine or similar ... and ... by the sounds of it, I'm pretty sure I'm getting professional advice from folks like tiltrider1 and yourself.

Thanks for stepping up and helping out.
Back to the drawing board eh?

FFF

 

[South of Heaven]

Professional advice?? There are some true marine professionals on this forum but it's hard to say you're getting professional advice from a forum.

But I agree that there is a huge amount of insight and real world experience here with folks who love to help.

 

[Frankenstien]

Professional advice?? There are some true marine professionals on this forum but it's hard to say you're getting professional advice from a forum.

But I agree that there is a huge amount of insight and real world experience here with folks who love to help.

Hey Jason ... thanks for posting ... point (was already) taken ... I was being more specific with respect to the folks who've already posted in my thread here ...

Given that I will highly likely do this install myself, and, that I bought my heaters privately (from an individual with no installation expertise whatsoever), asking a local commercial specialist (if I can even find one that has actual, hands-on experience installing [a] diesel heater on a 42' Uni DCS - so far no luck) for install advice could prove to be a little bit awkward (the hyper-competitive mind-set in Greater Vancouver these days means time is money and helpful advice with no firm committment is often just not readily available) ... hence the solicitation of a discussion here for some advice ... so I can hopefully avoid some / most? / all? pitfalls.

I do completely agree with your 2nd paragraph ...

FFF

 

[Ken E.]

Frank, there's a member of this forum, sbman, who is renovating a Uniflite like yours and has done a lot of work on it. You might contact him and compare notes.

 

[Frankenstien]

Frank, there's a member of this forum, sbman, who is renovating a Uniflite like yours and has done a lot of work on it. You might contact him and compare notes.

Ken E. ... thanks for posting ... yes, I'm well acquainted with sbman ...

He actually sent me a photo yesterday of the space beneath the staircase from the salon down into the master stateroom of his Uni that he had taken when the step tops / faces were removed ... very interesting un-utilized space there ... just aft of the Stbd. vertical exhaust cannister ... I am considering that location for (one of) my heater(s) ... jury's out yet tho' ...

FFF

 

[sbman]

On my Uni, there are three 1000 watt (about 3500 BTUs) electric heaters installed. One in the aft cabin under the bed, on on port wall of the salon and one in a floor mounted cabinet in the v-berth.

Individually none are powerful enough to heat the space they are in, with the v-berth doors closed the forward one comes close, but the others don't keep up. I have not run all three at the same time and the one in the aft cabin has quit working.

 

[tiltrider1]

I used King Pick a Watts. You can set them up to be anything from 250 watts to 1500 watts. I placed one in the aft bathroom at 1250 watts, one in the saloon set in the side wall above the fuel tank set to 1250 watts. One in the dinette settee set to 1250 watts and one in the V berth set to 500 watts. This was plenty of heat for a liveaboard. Note, I had 50 amp service.

 

[Frankenstien]

Yes Scott, I have the original electric heaters ... they're likely (fairly) identical to yours ... and once I cleaned the former owners' dust bunnies out of them they worked great! ... however, electrical heating is far too pricey (even to leave them running F/T on a fairly low thermostatic setting) where I'm at (0.1306¢ CAD per kWh), hence the diesel heaters purchase ... so, to youse guys who've stepped up and posted already, and, to all the other forum members out there, please keep those diesel heater install location ideas comin' ... Thanks, FFF

 

[sbman]

Yes Scott, I have the original electric heaters ... they're likely (fairly) identical to yours ... and once I cleaned the former owners' dust bunnies out of them they worked great! ... however, electrical heating is far too pricey (even to leave them running F/T on a fairly low thermostatic setting) where I'm at (0.1306¢ CAD per kWh), hence the diesel heaters purchase ... so, to youse guys who've stepped up and posted already, and, to all the other forum members out there, please keep those diesel heater install location ideas comin' ... Thanks, FFF

Understood, wasn't aware you already had the same electric ones. Was thinking as far as sizing is concerned that comparing BTU's of the electric vs. the diesel might help with your installation ideas on the diesel as far as how much heat you need in each space.

 

[Shrew]

I would be careful with heating your head areas. At best it’s tough to stop odor issues in that area, let it be hoses or older heads. If you add heat you probably speed up fermentation of bacteria not only from sewage but also salt water left in bowl.

I have heat and AC from the factory in my heads. Either the hoses have exceeded their duty cycle and are weeping, or they have not. Hard to justify a concern with heat when many holding tanks share space in the engine compartment. Boats get closed up while folks are away and heat up to 100 degrees internally in the summers.

I would personally disregard 'heat' as a problem with heads. I will admit I am just a guy on the internet executing logic. I'll be happy to defer to anyone with credentialed experience and facts that trump my empirical observation and assumptions.

 

[Frankenstien]

sbman ... yes, I do indeed have the original 'MARKEL ELECTRIC PRODUCTS, INC.' 'HZ 60', 'VOLTS 120' electric heaters ... Fwd. Stateroom: 'MODEL E 3123 T', 'WATTS 1000', Salon: 'MODEL E 3125 T', WATTS 1500', Aft Stateroom: 'MODEL NO. E3123T', 'WATTS 1000' ... so ... that's a current total of 3,500 watts in the boat, or, 11,942.495716 BTU/hr ... if I use both of my new Calaer 4kW diesel heaters (13,648.566532 BTU/hr), I'll have 27,297.133064 BTU/hr ... yipee!


Shrew ... interesting perspective and your points are well taken ... I myself still like the idea of putting my heaters, one each, in my heads, in the under-sink, toilet adjacent locations as outlined in my 2nd post (post #3) of this thread ...



I have yet to find a professional, licensed, local installer to bounce all of this off of, so, am kind of biding my time 'til I talk to one of those kinds of guys ... FFF

 

[FF]

"I have yet to find a professional, licensed, local installer to bounce all of this off of, so, am kind of biding my time 'til I talk to one of those kinds of guys ..."

Few boatyards would comply and there are usually too few boats wanting a heating system for a specialist outfit to exist.

Best you might hope for is someone that actually installed the heating system you prefer.

 

[Boatingbill]

I have a 74. It has the original electric heat. The heater in the master warms the salon nicely if I leave the stateroom door open. Likewise with the foreword heater. I never even turn the salon heat on. I know you’re putting the diesel on, but I would use this info as a baseline for placement. With warm air rising it works well. If we were up north I would definitely put some wabasto heaters on.

 

[Uni42]

I have an Espar D7 in my 1973 42' Wasagaming. It is installed in the engine room forward on the stbd side ahead of the engine and beside the fuel tank. It is an older model Espar so I expect bigger than new one of same BTU. Hosing goes to both heads, galley area, saloon and aft cabin. Leave forward head door to forward cabin open and it heads forward cabin. Provides loads of heat to whole boat. Take electric heater up to fly bridge when travelling.

 

[Frankenstien]

Boatingbill ... thanks for posting ... Lisbon? ... OH? I'd've thought it could get pretty damn cold there on Lake Erie ... no way I can duplicate your results with my built-in electric heaters ... and ... I would shudder to think of the hydro (kWh's) consumption if I tried ... I have found that I can get Kathy Ann reasonably warm (warm enough for me) using all three built-in's but anyone else tends to find the boat on the cool side (especially Fwd.) and the complaints follow.
I agree that placement of my two new diesel heaters should be a fore and aft arrangement ... I think I'll go with: under the 2nd step from bottom of Salon to M. Strm. stairs (essentially sharing the engine room space) looks like a likely location for one of them ... the other may have to go under the bottom step of the Salon to Galley stairs (I have the angled stairs down to a Port-side Galley - again the d. heater would essentially be located in the e. r. space) ... the e. r. space is fed fresh outside air, is segregated from the living spaces (provides for a potential CO leakage safety factor ... and ... to meet insurance survey requirements down the road) and heaters located within should prove less noisy (I've been cautioned by friends with their own diesel-heated boats about how noisy these d. heaters can be when running ... not sure if they mean air flow noise or burner / mechanical noise) ... I hope.
FFF

 

[Frankenstien]

Uni42 ... thanks for posting ... good info ... thank you ... do you happen to know the kW and / or BTU output range(s) of your Espar D7?
I'll go search and try to see if I can find specs on the D7 ... with one 4kW Calaer unit (output range 2 to 4kW, or 6,824 to 13,649 BTU/hr), I figured I was going to come up short on heating capacity ... thus the 2nd heater and the fore and aft locations rationale.
FFF

 

[Uni42]

I'm not sure of all the specs and the brochures are on the boat. Roton Industries on Granville Island were the distributors and service people for Espar. They were recently purchased by Pacific Seacraft on I think Powell St or thereabouts. I'll be down at boat in the next week or so if you want more info.

 

[Boatingbill]

On my 74 the steps to the galley lift up for engine room access. The galley is starboard on the older ones not that that matters lol. Mine has a nice little storage area in the floor just foreword of the steps. I might go there under the floor with an adjustable vent. Yes it gets cold here on Lake Erie, but my boat has been in storage for 1 1/2 months already. I love my boat being the older pre blister version. However I like the layout of the newer ones. I am considering getting rid of the v berth up front, and doing the centerline bed like I assume you have.

 

[Uni42]

We are also pre blister. Actually like our layout more than the new eith good engine room acces through steps and great dry storage forward of the steps and under the floorboards. Our V berth has full side to side bed which although a little tougher to make up and get into has enough room for a really large couple and a dog and room to spare. Galley is starboard and area where dinette was to port was converted to stateroom with bunks by PO. Great for grandkids and one of the reason for purchasing boat eight years ago. Aft has full king size and still able to walk around. Original 903s in good condition. Do 110 - 120 days per yr.

 

[Ruffryder]

I still have all 3 Markel original electric heater on our Uniflite...
34 this morning in the PNW, all 3 of them performing well efficiently.

AFT state room closet floor also serves as STB side shaft log hose access, so I'm not sure how that is going to play, also even if you shelf install up high, that's gonna be a long run for your exhaust.
I'll be mounting my 5KW diesel heater in the engine room just behind the FWD bulkhead Port side next to my water heater.
Fuel line can be plumed in to the STB side Onan gen set, exhaust thru hull routing would be short also.

 

[EngNate]

I was curious because I have a Uniflite with diesel heat, but it's a 31 and hydronic. I've installed and serviced a number of these things, up to a 130K Btu/Hr Kabola - two of those, one integrated into a Cruisair tempered water system. My 4.3Kw Espar has the capacity to keep this boat, including the V berth, at comfort level down to -8 or 10C, but I have installed a lot of insulation. I have clear shrink film over all windows. Maybe the larger models are insulated, nonetheless I think OP will want all of those two units, and 10Kw wouldn't be overkill for all weather comfort around here.

 

[Ruffryder]

On my Uni, there are three 1000 watt (about 3500 BTUs) electric heaters installed. One in the aft cabin under the bed, on on port wall of the salon and one in a floor mounted cabinet in the v-berth.

Individually none are powerful enough to heat the space they are in, with the v-berth doors closed the forward one comes close, but the others don't keep up. I have not run all three at the same time and the one in the aft cabin has quit working.

I haven't received your old stuffing box yet?

 

[Frankenstien]

Ruffryder ... thanks for posting ... yeah, M. Strm. closet shelf install up high is out I think (I'm pretty sure I'll go with the under 2nd from bottom step location aft [Salon to M. Strm. stairs], and, under the bottom step location fwd. [Salon to Galley angled stairs], putting both d. heaters in the e. r. air space, as described earlier ... with that fwd. d. heater exhaust to Port) ... my 20 gal. Atlantic Marine Stainless water heater is a big rectangular unit that takes up all of the space ahead of the Port engine ... that you're going to use for your 5 kW d. heater.



Say ... did you ever see my PM from 19OCT about the stern windows moldings??


Your help / experience with those two-part rubber moldings would be most appreciated.


FFF

 

[Ruffryder]

Better decision IMO...I'm not familiar with your Calaer unit, but
most of these diesel heaters would come with a metal to metal plunging fuel pump that can be loud & annoying... I can't imagine having 2 of those in my master state RM Knocking all night LOL.
No I have not checked my PM lately, I will soon.

 

[Ruffryder]

Is this what you're talking about?
I'll respond PM back or we can discuss here...

BTW, STBD side dinette under storage would be my second choice.

 

[Uni42]

Reply to Engate. The big single pane widows certainly do not hold heat in. Our heat is forced air and not hydronic. Don't know if that makes a big difference. But in coastal southern BC outside temp is usually not below zero for more than a few days at a time. Once we have boat warmed up not a problem. In fact on coldest nights we still have window in aft cabin open.