Ultra Pumpswitch - high water alarm

[Shoalwaters]

My sump bilge-pump is controlled by an Ultra Pumpswitch Senior. There is no high-water alarm panel with built-in piezo buzzer, although the PumpSwitch has the wires to connect one.

I want to use the high-water alarm circuit to trigger an alarm-bell which will use rather more current than a piezo buzzer. The wires mentioned above are quite thin and, according to Tef-Gel (mfg of PumpSwitch) can only handle 100 milliamps. A 12 volt automotive relay could handle the bell current, but would the relay's operating current exceed 100 milliamps?

 

[caltexflanc]

They make an alarm for that unit as well as a bell interface, or if you want to DIY, can answer your question:

TEF-GEL - Ultra safety systems - Home page

 

[ksanders]

If I might suggest you can wire a new float switch to a bell, buzzer, light, etc...

Yes a interposing relay would work, but a dedicated bilge pump switch mounted a bit higher might be a good solution as well

 

[Shoalwaters]

George, I know that a piezo alarm is available, but I want a nice loud bell. I did email the mfg, and in more detail than my question here. To my surprise, the response was "100 mA max". Just that, not even a greeting. I would have expected better from a company like Tef-Gel. Courtesy gets you happy customers, and the lack of it gets you negative advertizing in forums like this!

FWIW: I recently installed Aqualarm flow and temp alarms in my exhaust systems. I went for their bell option ($69.00!) in addition to the included piezo buzzer. The bell looks pretty enough, but a tiny electric motor moves the hammer instead of the usual electromagnet. It isn't as loud as I had expected and the motor arrangement looks flimsy. I believe this type of bell is used because Aqualarm's skinny wiring can't cope with the load of a conventional bell any more that Pumpswitch's can.

So, it's a conventional bell and a suitable 12v automotive relay. I am still hoping to learn whether such a relay's operating current would exceed 100 milliamps.

 

[caltexflanc]

Just that, not even a greeting. I would have expected better from a company like Tef-Gel. Courtesy gets you happy customers, and the lack of it gets you negative advertizing in forums like this!

I always had good experience calling him; he is a terse guy to be sure but always helpful. Using the phone these days seems to be a lost art.

 

[Shoalwaters]

What!

 

[Capt.Bill11]

I changed all my bilge pump switches over to Ultras, as I do on all the boats I run if they don't already have them, and then I designed and made up a custom high water alarm control panel incorporating a 24v bell, lights and a mute button. So far everything works just fine.

 

[psneeld]

George, I know that a piezo alarm is available, but I want a nice loud bell. I did email the mfg, and in more detail than my question here. To my surprise, the response was "100 mA max". Just that, not even a greeting. I would have expected better from a company like Tef-Gel. Courtesy gets you happy customers, and the lack of it gets you negative advertizing in forums like this!

FWIW: I recently installed Aqualarm flow and temp alarms in my exhaust systems. I went for their bell option ($69.00!) in addition to the included piezo buzzer. The bell looks pretty enough, but a tiny electric motor moves the hammer instead of the usual electromagnet. It isn't as loud as I had expected and the motor arrangement looks flimsy. I believe this type of bell is used because Aqualarm's skinny wiring can't cope with the load of a conventional bell any more that Pumpswitch's can.

So, it's a conventional bell and a suitable 12v automotive relay. I am still hoping to learn whether such a relay's operating current would exceed 100 milliamps.

If doubtful...just wire a second electronic relay that steps up from millivolts to whatever the auto relay needs. pretty common...there is often a remote relay on Lehmans and older Ford trucks that does the same for the relay that is actually on the starter.

 

[HopCar]

Mike, that's a good question. I sell Cole Hersee solenoids so I went to their website to see what I could find out. They don't say how much current is needed to close the connection on most of their solenoids.

They do say the control current for this one is only .02 amps.
Solenoids & Relays | Electronic Solenoid/Relays48785 | Cole Hersee - Littelfuse
Would that be 20 ma?

 

[FF]

Some of the CH solenoids (70A?) are latching style , and only require power to change the solenoid position.

 

[rwidman]

My sump bilge-pump is controlled by an Ultra Pumpswitch Senior. There is no high-water alarm panel with built-in piezo buzzer, although the PumpSwitch has the wires to connect one.

I want to use the high-water alarm circuit to trigger an alarm-bell which will use rather more current than a piezo buzzer. The wires mentioned above are quite thin and, according to Tef-Gel (mfg of PumpSwitch) can only handle 100 milliamps. A 12 volt automotive relay could handle the bell current, but would the relay's operating current exceed 100 milliamps?

Look for a relay that uses less than 100 milliamps. Read the spec sheet.

You might do better with something from an electronics supplier than from the auto parts store.

I think someone may have suggested this, but you could just mount a separate float switch and connect it to your alarm and leave the existing system intact.

 

[Capt.Bill11]

Why don't you just buy the alarm panel Ultra sells and add a bell to it?

The panel is powered by two 9v batteries as I recall. So this bell should work: http://www.starmarinedepot.com/blue...s-alarm.html?gclid=CP3d1NzP4csCFUQ9gQodQ3oDcA

 

[Shoalwaters]

Thanks for your input everyone.


I still like the idea of using the high-water alarm circuit built into the Pumpswitch I already have. I just have to find a 12 volt relay with the right specs.

 

[HopCar]

Mike, if I'm reading the specs right, the Cole Hersee one I posted a link to, only needs 20 milli amps to control an 85 amp current. That should ring a pretty big bell.

 

[Shoalwaters]

Mike, if I'm reading the specs right, the Cole Hersee one I posted a link to, only needs 20 milli amps to control an 85 amp current. That should ring a pretty big bell.

Parks, I appreciate the research and the suggestion. That is one fine relay and 85 amps could really make a lot of noise. Unfortunately is exceeds my budget by about $180.

 

[HopCar]

Wow they are proud of that. I hadn't looked at the price. It should retail for around $130 but that's pretty steep for what you're trying to do.

How many amps would a bell like you want draw?

 

[rwidman]

Here you go:
http://www.amazon.com/uxcell%C2%AE-Photoelectric-Switch-Sensor-50mmx25mm/dp/B00BLZ93T2/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&qid=1459117630&sr=8-15&keywords=12+volt+dc+relay


It's operated by light, not current so all you have to do is couple the relay sensor to an LED connected to your existing system. A piece of heat shrink tubing should couple them.


Seriously though, I think an electronic supplier could set you up with a relay that would couple your device to a bell or other loud warning device.

 

[rwidman]

https://www.radioshack.com/products/spdt-12v-1-amp-rly?variant=5717508037

 

[rwidman]

Signal Relays, Up to 2 Amps | Relays | DigiKey

 

[Shoalwaters]

Wes: Thanks, looks like the little relay from Radio Shack would be ideal. Just have to get it here. BTW: I thought Radio Shack had gone bust, no?


Parks: I'm not sure, but 2-3 amps should make enough noise. Lots available on eBay, but many are 120 volt and many more are the same flimsy little toy bells that Aqualarm sells. Hard to sort the wheat from the chaff.


FWIW: I had two ordinary automotive 4-blade relays in my box of bits. Tested both with a digital multimeter. Current consumption is 0.18 and 0.2 amps respectively. Should have done this first!

 

[caltexflanc]

As I have tried to make clear, Ultra does make a bell interface for exactly this purpose. Pricey, yes. But exactly what the OP needs. And he doesn't have to talk to another human being if so averse.

TEF-GEL - Ultra safety systems - Home page

 

[psneeld]

Check out door bell stuff at a big box store...something may work....

 

[Ted]

20100 STANDARD BELL ALARM
* Standard Bell Alarm Indoor/Outdoor Available in 12v, 24v, 32v The boat alarm bell makes a loud clanging noise that can be heard over the loudest boat diesel and ship's noise. It is enamel coated and has stainless hardware which makes it ideal for Marine alarm use. The bell has an efficient motor driven mechanism that draws an amazingly low current of 0.029 Amps. Dimension: 6 inch diameter that mounts on a 4-1/2 inch base. Add Waterproof...

this is off the Aqualarm page
Using a converter from the internet I get 29 milliamps

Ted

 

[Shoalwaters]

George, thanks for the link. At $135.00 it's an expensive solution though. I wonder why Mr. Tef-Gel didn't mention it in his 3 word email.

PSN: Thanks, I'll take a look at big-box stores.

Ted: I have the $69.00 Aqualarm bell and really cannot recommend it. Their description is highly misleading. As mentioned in post #4, the bell is not nearly as loud, robust or well made as they claim. It uses very low amps because a tiny electric motor moves the hammer instead of the usual electromagnet. YMMV.

 

[Ted]

I guess they have changed since I had one.
It was an 8 or 10 inch bell, I think, chrome and would near deafen you.
Sorry, I tried anyway

Ted

 

[Capt.Bill11]

Here you go:

http://www.amazon.com/Fire-Alarm-Bell-12-Vdc/dp/B00B7QMUJ0

And it only draws 0.085 amps. So you don't need a relay. As I stated, I used a 24v version with no relay and it works fine.

 

[kchace]

My sump bilge-pump is controlled by an Ultra Pumpswitch Senior. There is no high-water alarm panel with built-in piezo buzzer, although the PumpSwitch has the wires to connect one.

I want to use the high-water alarm circuit to trigger an alarm-bell which will use rather more current than a piezo buzzer. The wires mentioned above are quite thin and, according to Tef-Gel (mfg of PumpSwitch) can only handle 100 milliamps. A 12 volt automotive relay could handle the bell current, but would the relay's operating current exceed 100 milliamps?

Aqualarm makes an alarm bell that uses only 29 milliamps which is well below the max of the Pumpswitch. If you use something like this it should just work without all the complication of other relays.

Aqualarm Standard Boat Bell Alarm

Ken

 

[Shoalwaters]

Aqualarm makes an alarm bell that uses only 29 milliamps which is well below the max of the Pumpswitch. If you use something like this it should just work without all the complication of other relays.

Aqualarm Standard Boat Bell Alarm

Ken

Ken, take a look at my posts above. I have the Aqualarm bell and find it to be unsatisfactory for the reasons stated.

 

[rwidman]

..... It uses very low amps because a tiny electric motor moves the hammer instead of the usual electromagnet. YMMV.

And that would be because a conventional electromagnet would have points that would quickly corrode in a salt water atmosphere. A solid state device will be the most reliable on a boat.

 

[kchace]

Ken, take a look at my posts above. I have the Aqualarm bell and find it to be unsatisfactory for the reasons stated.

Ah, that stinks. I have the Ulira Pump switches with high water contacts and the ULtra Alarm that uses the double 9v batteries. Its a nice enough alarm and its really loud. However another panel is expensive and I'm not totally happy with the double 9v batteries for power. Sure you can test them but if they go dead you have no alarm.

I was going to make my own "buzzer" for my upper station, but then I found this Sea Dog panel which looks a lot better than anything I could make, has leds that indicate "power ok" and "alarm" and its pretty loud. I think it will live ok in my semi protected upper station.

Sea-Dog : Quality Marine, Industrial and Rigging Hardware

Ken