Upgraded Electronics

[kenster]

If I were to upgrade ALL of the electronic components found on a trawler for safe navigation / operation , what might I have to spend? I'm not asking for the very best, just equipment that one could consider reliable & serviceable without breaking the bank...Thank you

 

[fgarriso]

$10K to $200K

 

[Helmsman]

Well, it depends, as they say. Can you define what you are looking for? One chart plotter, or two, or three…? Autopilot or not? AIS? Radios? If you can or have done that homework and can post it, I think you will get help that is closer than a guess. Just too many variables otherwise. Hope this helps!

 

[mvweebles]

2 years ago, I bought a Simrad bundle with 4g radar, 9 inch MFD, and a basic transducer. $5k (there are less expensive options that are not as expandable, plus I wanted a knob input on MFD vs touchscreen.

To that I added another 9" MFD for fkybridge and a 12" for lower helm. I also found a small 7 inch to use as a repeater. Total about another $5k.

I've since upgraded my autopilot ($3k) and added a pair of VHF radios, one with AIS B transceiver. $1k. I also added a wind guage and a couple small repeater displays to better fit into my very limited dash but that was purely optional. Depending on how radar and various antennae will be mounted and depending on how complicated the N2k install is, the installation parts can easily edge close to $2k by the time you're through.

So for me, I could have done it for $10k. But I ended up north of $15k. With exception of hauling boat for transducer, I was able to do much of the installation myself.

That said, I've been aboard boats with $200k in electronics. Nice radar but it really pushes into another cost level by the time you're done.

Peter

 

[socalrider]

I'd expand the range downward depending on, as others have asked, what is required. An iPhone with Navionix and iSailor plus the old VHF that came with the boat is all I used for a few years coastal cruising on our sailboat, so that's basically free. Autopilot is, I think, a requirement but an old AP can be fine.

 

[syjos]

Depends on where you boat, type of cruising envisioned, size of boat, boating experience.

And what gear you currently have on the boat.

I usually recommend to clients that they use the current electronics for a couple months and learn what is important to them and features desired. Unless current electronics do not work or unreliable.

It's always a good idea to have some experience when you shop for equipment.

Replacing everything at once is not always necessary.

Too many boaters feel that a full compliment of modern electronics is necessary for safe cruising.

Up until the 80's, a compass, depthsounder (usually a flasher) and VHF was all most boats under 60' was equipped with.

 

[mvweebles]

Depends on where you boat, type of cruising envisioned, size of boat, boating experience.

And what gear you currently have on the boat.

I usually recommend to clients that they use the current electronics for a couple months and learn what is important to them and features desired. Unless current electronics do not work or unreliable.

It's always a good idea to have some experience when you shop for equipment.

Replacing everything at once is not always necessary.

Too many boaters feel that a full compliment of modern electronics is necessary for safe cruising.

Up until the 80's, a compass, depthsounder (usually a flasher) and VHF was all most boats under 60' was equipped with.

I don't disagree. I first started doing longer multi-day coastal runs 30 years ago. My boat had a Loran that would give raw Lat/Long readout that was then manually transcribed to a chart with its attendant possibility for human error so you cross referenced with dead reckoning, and when available, radar, depth sounder, anf ATON (including lighthouse flashes when coastal) . At the time Loran was a quantum leap over RDF.

A good friend has a 21 foot center console with a full Simrad system and 12 inch display. Probably $10k system. He uses the boat as a personal water taxi with near zero use for the Simrad system. Heck, it hasn't even been calibrated properly. Waste of money but sure looks nice.

But I interpreted OP question as a general budgeting question for a base system for a typical trawler or weekend cruising boat, not a minimalist one. I would hasten to add that a lot of fun can be had with a depth sounder and navionics running on a phone, just need to avoid weather, poor visibility periods, and abide by channel markers.

For a weekender, most people will find benefit in an autopilot interfaced to a chart plotter. While I am tempted to advocate for radar and AIS, I'll concede that this is more dependent on location and desire (plus, despite advances in auto-tune, I think many people do not know proper usage and interpretation). But a complete base system can be had for well under $10k depending on desired size of MFD and number of helm stations.

As far as expense, one item I didn't mention is carpentry. Older electronics had much larger footprints. Getting a reasonably attractive end product for an electronics upgrade can sometimes be difficult.

Peter

 

[ranger58sb]

If I were to upgrade ALL of the electronic components found on a trawler for safe navigation / operation , what might I have to spend? I'm not asking for the very best, just equipment that one could consider reliable & serviceable without breaking the bank...Thank you

You'll probably see that folks here might have different definitions of what's needed for "safe" navigation...

I could make an argument for a depth finder, paper charts, and a VHF radio... or I could make an argument for redundant depth finders, chart plotters, and VHFs plus autopilot, radar, and AIS. Each of those arguments would be based on a typical intended float plan: short day sails only in perfect weather versus long trips including night/fog and busy shipping lanes.

That's probably not perfectly helpful, but you can decide your definition of "safe" and your likely intended use... draw up your own list... and then the various makers will usually have prices on their websites. Maybe knock off 20% for actual costs... and then figure ~20 hours labor at about $100/hour for installation costs (if you don't do it yourself) for a ballpark figure.

FWIW, I've found about the best prices with minimal shopping fuss available from the specialized marine electronics dealers/installers. Some will let you be "helper" and maybe save some labor costs that way. (Usually the help is about fishing wiring.)

You can find various threads here about Garmin, Furuno, Raymarine, and Simrad/B&G equipment, often with some pros/cons for each.

-Chris

 

[ranger58sb]

If I were to upgrade ALL of the electronic components found on a trawler for safe navigation / operation , what might I have to spend? I'm not asking for the very best, just equipment that one could consider reliable & serviceable without breaking the bank...Thank you

You'll probably see that folks here might have different definitions of what's needed for "safe" navigation...

I could make an argument for a depth finder, paper charts, and a VHF radio... or I could make an argument for redundant depth finders, chart plotters, and VHFs... plus autopilot, radar, and AIS. Each of those arguments would be based on a typical intended float plan: short day sails only in perfect weather versus long trips including night/fog and busy shipping lanes.

That's probably not perfectly helpful, but you can decide your definition of "safe" and your likely intended use... draw up your own list... and then the various makers will usually have prices on their websites. Maybe knock off 20% for actual costs... and then add in ~20 hours labor at about $100/hour for installation costs if you don't do it yourself.

FWIW, I've found about the best prices with minimal shopping fuss available from the specialized marine electronics dealers/installers.

The current estimate I have -- for one transducer, one 16" touch plotter, one AIS tranceiver plus antenna, one VHF radio plus antenna, one hailer... plus NMEA2000 connectivity bits and pieces... mostly Furuno with an ICOM radio and Shakespeare antennas... and NOT including labor... is just under $7K. We already have one Garmin plotter, radar, and depth finder... and a Raymarine autopilot... installed.

-Chris

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. k. Welcome aboard if I've missed you. I second all of the above. Keep in mind the "biggest and the best" will be out of date (considered "old" electronics) in a couple of years.


We have an entry level GPS/plotter (Garmin 560S, I think) on board that does everything WE want it to. I don't even use a lot of the features. Just want to see where I am and what the depth is. Older radar and autopilot (both work). VHF, as well.



As mentioned, YOUR needs will depend on what you want.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

I don't disagree. I first started doing longer multi-day coastal runs 30 years ago. My boat had a Loran that would give raw Lat/Long readout that was then manually transcribed to a chart with its attendant possibility for human error so you cross referenced with dead reckoning, and when available, radar, depth sounder, anf ATON (including lighthouse flashes when coastal) . At the time Loran was a quantum leap over RDF.

Keep in mind the "biggest and the best" will be out of date (considered "old" electronics) in a couple of years.

Ain't that the truth! First of all, 30 years does not seem that long ago, but it sure is in terms of electronics. Think hard about where you are going. A lot of people these days are completing the loop with nothing but Navionics on inexpensive tablets.

 

[Solly]

I'll only add.... Good luck getting any 'older' electronics to talk to any newer models... Even from the same manufacture.

 

[ancora]

If I were to upgrade ALL of the electronic components found on a trawler for safe navigation / operation , what might I have to spend? I'm not asking for the very best, just equipment that one could consider reliable & serviceable without breaking the bank...Thank you

DIY or write checks...a big difference.

 

[CharlieO.]

I also am interested in this. My new to us trawler has a small Garmin GPS echo map, and a new in the box depth finder and a vhf. My first year will probably be Hudson River to Lake Champlain. I will probably add a GPS tablet running something just not sure yet.

Would like to do more but this should suffice me for now?

 

[Helmsman]

I also am interested in this. My new to us trawler has a smalpbGarmin GPS echo map, and a new in the box depth finder and a vhf. My first year will probably be Hudson River to Lake Champlain. I will probably add a GPS tablet running something just not sure yet.

Would like to do more but this should suffice me for now?

My opinion is yes, and it will give you time to figure out what else you might want. Tablet GPS is a good idea. Navionics on your tablet or phone for redundancy.

I wouldn’t run at night without radar.

 

[CharlieO.]

My opinion is yes, and it will give you time to figure out what else you might want. Tablet GPS is a good idea. Navionics on your tablet or phone for redundancy.

I wouldn’t run at night without radar.

I'm figuring 6-8 hour days during the daylight.

 

[Helmsman]

I'm figuring 6-8 hour days during the daylight.

Yea. I would just leave a bit of a margin for getting back to home port, and a convenient bail out anchorage spot. Things look different at night.

 

[kenster]

In response to a few responses...Thank you

My plans are to cruise the Pacific Coast, So. California to Alaska's Aleutian Islands, home port Washington.

Electronics onboard the 48' trawler I am purchasing:

Radar: Raymarine C120
Depth Sounder: Unknown mfg.
Autopilot: Simrad AP11
GPS: Raymarine C70
VHF: Icom M602
Compas: Uknown mfg.

With simplicity in mind...I'm open to suggestions...New chart plotter, AIS, advanced radar, VHF and depth sounders are in my bucket list...I need help with the rest...

Some items will need to be duplicated on the flybridge...Yes?

Anything not necessary I would like to eliminate...Also, I would rather spend extra money less often for quality electronics than less money more often....

Thanks for the help

 

[DDW]

Small chart plotter (12") - $2000
Transducers for same (speed, depth) - $300
VHF with AIS and antennas - $600
Radardome - $1200
Autopilot - $2000
installation - $0 - $10,000 depending on ability and area

So completely modern full featured system for $6100 in equipment, new. Same stuff 4 years old from eBay about 1/2 that price. Easily self installable with only modest knowledge/skills.

Cheapest way:
Laptop or iPad with free charts - $500
Handheld VHF - $100
I'd still want a depthsounder - $150
= $750

 

[mvweebles]

Small chart plotter (12") - $2000
Transducers for same (speed, depth) - $300
VHF with AIS and antennas - $600
Radardome - $1200
Autopilot - $2000
installation - $0 - $10,000 depending on ability and area

So completely modern full featured system for $6100 in equipment, new. Same stuff 4 years old from eBay about 1/2 that price. Easily self installable with only modest knowledge/skills.

Cheapest way:
Laptop or iPad with free charts - $500
Handheld VHF - $100
I'd still want a depthsounder - $150
= $750

Not a single manufacturer cited? And it's all easily installed and integrated via N2K?

 

[mvweebles]

In response to a few responses...Thank you



My plans are to cruise the Pacific Coast, So. California to Alaska's Aleutian Islands, home port Washington.



Electronics onboard the 48' trawler I am purchasing:



Radar: Raymarine C120

Depth Sounder: Unknown mfg.

Autopilot: Simrad AP11

GPS: Raymarine C70

VHF: Icom M602

Compas: Uknown mfg.



With simplicity in mind...I'm open to suggestions...New chart plotter, AIS, advanced radar, VHF and depth sounders are in my bucket list...I need help with the rest...



Some items will need to be duplicated on the flybridge...Yes?



Anything not necessary I would like to eliminate...Also, I would rather spend extra money less often for quality electronics than less money more often....



Thanks for the help

You have everything you need. You can add chart plotter functionality via navionics on a tablet or you can add something marine grade such as a Garmin for a couple grand. Guessing you could interface an AIS VHF.

Your decision is twofold. Budget, and how desirable it is to have everything integrated. I don't know your equipment but it is likely at least 0183 compatible.

At this point, need some more input from you

Peter

 

[Hippocampus]

Have come to believe for coastal you need more bells and whistles. Once off the continental shelf depth is irrelevant. Once away from the coast there’s nothing to hit and being 50nm off course is irrelevant. If you’re not traveling shipping lanes there’s no commercial fishing and no ships so knowing what’s around you is irrelevant because there’s no one around you. With a decent wristwatch and a sextant you’d do just fine. Easily can get by with apparent noon, lower limb of the moon and maybe one or two first order stars. No need for any electronics.

The issue is coastal and inland waters. Here more skill and information is required. You do need to know who’s around you. AIS and radar. You need to know depth. You need to know your exact location and have all the information about your surroundings. MFD.

Yes, you can definitely get by with a IPad with navionics on it (we carry two as backups and to see what’s going on when in the berth). Have several blue water sailing friends who have given up on MFDs and do fine. But a MFD is easier when running the boat and being set up for a interactive autopilot makes life so much easier. Some of the most pleasant and beautiful times on a boat are traveling at night. Think folks miss out by not doing that when the occasion arises. Then the electronics truly lower your stress and allow you to enjoy the night.

 

[sledge]

To the OP; I agree with some here that a full upgrade is $10 to 15k and I'd say its worth it... by that I mean either do it right, or wait until you can spend that bundle to do it right. People that do "partial updates" and mixed systems and networks... from what i've seen end up with what I call a jury-rigged looking setup, the kind many buyers walk away from in a boat sale.
As for an iPad backup, I can't say i've used Navionics but I'll throw in a vote for an iPad running Aquamaps, especially with the US Army Corps of Engineers latest data; this is very handy on the intracoastal waterways.

 

[Iggy]

Not a single manufacturer cited? And it's all easily installed and integrated via N2K?

N2k is all well and good, but you will would need to run some ethernet. Using ethernet you can share radar, sonar and charts between screens just to name the basic stuff.

I am installing some Victron equipment using ethernet to display setting and info on my screens.

 

[mvweebles]

N2k is all well and good, but you will would need to run some ethernet. Using ethernet you can share radar, sonar and charts between screens just to name the basic stuff.



I am installing some Victron equipment using ethernet to display setting and info on my screens.

Understood. The MFDs have ethernet cables with water tight connections and are fairly expensive.

These days, decent electronics are relatively affordable. They are fairly simple to hook-up but install can be challenging due to difficulty of running cables and adapting/reconfiguring available dash space.

To give some idea of higher end alternatives, Furnuo has a nice lineup of Black Box electronics that run off a backend PC-like appliance that you hookup monitors. A 72-mile open array radar will set you back a tidy sum. They are nice but the basic systems these days are the classic 80/20 rule: 80% of the benefit for 20% of the cost.

A lot of this is personal choice. Hippocampus noted that many sailors go with Navionics or OpenCPN. I personally feel that for a coastal cruising that will be covering miles, there should be a "system of record" that all aboard can operate and understand without undue risk of screwing something up and waking me up in the middle of my off-watch. Consumer-grade PC hardware doesn't cut it for me. Fine for personal use, but not for the ships system. I also like autopilot to have NAV interface - its just easier for me to track and verify. Again, so I don't get summoned from sleep.

A couple weeks ago, I shared on TF a day trip from San Diego to Ensenada, a ride of about 80 nms. My friend didn't have Mexico CMAP charts. I told him we didn't need them - we could use my expired subscription for Navionics for such a short trip. Besides, there's no place to stop along the way. No need for current charts. But for cruising from Alaska to Mexico as the OP states, highly desirable to have a decent integrated system.

Good luck

Peter

 

[Bugaboo]

When I bought my boat had a fairly decent RayMarine radar chart plotter two VHF radio‘s two depth finders a Ray Marine auto pilot 100 series i forget the number exactly all 10+ years old except for the auto pilot fairly recent . Oh hydraulic steering , hydraulic helm .Removed everything except for auto pilot reinstalled auto pilot properly removed hydraulic helm and installed duel function jog lever .What I have now Raymarine auto pilot With dual function jog lever not necessary but I consider it necessary ,very tiring steering a boat ,Depth finder, handheld VHF and NAV app on iPad all you’ll ever need in my opinion !!! Everything new for less than 4000 the auto pilot being 3000 of that once again my opinion many hours Traveling up and down the West Coast never had a need for anything else. My opinion!!!

 

[syjos]

I'd keep some of the installed electronics for redundancy even with a complete upgrade since ofshore cruising is planned. Backup old electronics would be a godsend in case of primary electronics failure while offshore.

Plus your other systems like propulsion and steering will need attention before heading offshore.

 

[grahamdouglass]

I started sailing in the early 80's with a sailboat. It had a Heathkit depth sounder, a knot log and wind direction and I carried charts and a hand bearing compass. Sailed all around the gulf islands and desolation sound. Sold the boat in the mid 80's.

Fast forward 10 years and I started renting trawlers with another family and still used charts and my trusty hand bearing compass.

Finally in 2007 when I bought my trawler I went a little crazy and put in a full electronics suite with radar and an MDF.

So if I was to do it again, I wouldn't have put in an electronic suite in right away, I would have sailed the first season with charts and compass and asked around fellow boaters in the club and then installed it myself. Autopilot is nice and chartplotters make things incredibly easy but as a sailor it makes one very lazy, but this is just my opinion.

As for having it professionally installed or doing it yourself? Choose an installer that will let you help. Ask him if he will include a diagram of the job after he installs it. If it breaks down there usually is no one to help you so you really have to know your equipment. Thats why its best to get equipment you can understand .

 

[fgarriso]

Up graded electronics

If I were to upgrade ALL of the electronic components found on a trawler for safe navigation / operation , what might I have to spend? I'm not asking for the very best, just equipment that one could consider reliable & serviceable without breaking the bank...Thank you

We will be able to help you when we get more information

* About you
* About your boat
* About your Experience.
* What are your expectations, do you want hold a lantern over a wet wind blowen chart with a hand compass, or dead reckoning.
Or would you like to step on and just say where you are going.
Or something in between!


NEED INFORMATION !!!!!

 

[Iggy]

Yep! More info...........

As to ethernet, I see it replacing N2k over time. Its bandwidth and speed is far greater. But N2k being a bus type network that has its advantages too. Great for smaller boats! Once you get into the 40+ footers, you are running ethernet between wheelhouse, flybridge and radar at a minimum. Just waiting to see what's coming down the pipe. Look at CZone for example?