Weather information Vancouver to Alaska ?

[bowball]

As I prepare my boat to go to Alaska from Vancouver, what’s the best weather information? I’ve looked at various apps, my boat has Furuno’s free weather but these require data connections.

Looking at the Alaskan marine weather chart, I see the radios and dial a buoy phone numbers.

Given the accuracy of 3 day reports, is it sufficient to be able to download that information when access to cell phone data or wifi is available and call in for updates?

Or is XM weather satellite really helpful (though the coverage seems to end closer to SE Alaska). The coastal version is $30 plus per month.

Or is satellite data of some sort needed? (Expensive unless can use sat phone)

Any thoughts here? Best practices or best apps?
I’ve been looking at TZ iBoat as it integrates with Furuno, Buoyweather app, etc. will use Navigator.

Something that seamlessly integrates into my planning software and MfD would be nice.

I tried to search old forum posts but XM is too short!

 

[Steppe]

Since there is limited and spotty cell phone service in upper BC and Southeast Alaska your best, most reliable source for both forecasts and conditions will be VHF weather broadcasts from Environment Canada and the National Weather Service. The Waggoner guide has a good write up on weather. You need to learn which region, area and WX channel to tune to plus which buoys and Lighthouse reports to listen to along your daily route. Both Environment Canada and the NWS marine reports are updated multiple times per day. Phone apps will be pretty much useless beyond Cape Caution until you get to Prince Rupert. Satellite services will be more usable.

 

[Retriever]

SiriusXM weather is not very useful, in my opinion. Sometimes it slowly gets the Environment Canada or NOAA forecasts. Sometimes they're current and for the correct area. Sometimes it'll show some of the important weather reporting stations.

I think Windy and PredictWind offer far more accurate, granular, and informative weather visualization products than either the US or Canadian governments. I generally like Windy better, but PredictWind works over IridiumGo (slow but reliable) when there's no cell service. PredictWind also has more advanced weather routing and departure planning features.

Windy and PredictWind allow you to view a whole bunch of forecast models. I've found the ECMWF model is the most accurate, and looking at gusts gives a more realistic picture of what conditions will be like. I look at all the models and favor the ECMWF, but err on the side of caution and make decisions based on the model that shows the worst weather.

PredictWind + Iridium Go is my choice. Between the unlimited data plan and an upgraded pro account, I probably spend $200 a month with PredictWind. I'm very happy with the value. Much of the time there's cell service and the Iridium sits idle. But accurate, updated weather forecasts when out of cell service--perhaps a third of the time--makes for more relaxing and enjoyable cruising.

An alternative is to use something like an InReach and have a trusted friend or family member forward you information. There's no graphical display of the weather, though.

I also have a weather fax aboard. No service fees, but not that reliable, granular, or confidence inspiring.

 

[ksanders]

if you were looking for another reason for satellite communications you just found one.

yes in places the radio based weather works but not everywhere.

having reliable internet changes the whole dynamic.

 

[koliver]

SiriusXM weather is not very useful, in my opinion. Sometimes it slowly gets the Environment Canada or NOAA forecasts. Sometimes they're current and for the correct area. Sometimes it'll show some of the important weather reporting stations.

I think Windy and PredictWind offer far more accurate, granular, and informative weather visualization products than either the US or Canadian governments. I generally like Windy better, but PredictWind works over IridiumGo (slow but reliable) when there's no cell service. PredictWind also has more advanced weather routing and departure planning features.

Windy and PredictWind allow you to view a whole bunch of forecast models. I've found the ECMWF model is the most accurate, and looking at gusts gives a more realistic picture of what conditions will be like. I look at all the models and favor the ECMWF, but err on the side of caution and make decisions based on the model that shows the worst weather.

PredictWind + Iridium Go is my choice. Between the unlimited data plan and an upgraded pro account, I probably spend $200 a month with PredictWind. I'm very happy with the value. Much of the time there's cell service and the Iridium sits idle. But accurate, updated weather forecasts when out of cell service--perhaps a third of the time--makes for more relaxing and enjoyable cruising.

An alternative is to use something like an InReach and have a trusted friend or family member forward you information. There's no graphical display of the weather, though.

I also have a weather fax aboard. No service fees, but not that reliable, granular, or confidence inspiring.

Retriever has done a good synopsis.

Forecasting by Environment Canada is done region wide and is not specific to any of the channels or smaller areas within any of the regions. For that region the EC weather forecasts give a "worst weather" snapshot for any given area. For a drilling down to the details approach I prefer Windy/gusts. It has proven to be accurate most of the summer, where I have been, but occasionally is late reporting if you are there in changeable conditions.
When you are out of range of all but your WX channels on your VHF you will be stuck trying to generalize from the EC forecasts and ocean bouy reports so you need a good familiarity with the locations of those stations.

 

[bowball]

This has been extremely valuable information to me. Thank you so much.

I’m starting to like satellite data even more now! I was hoping to wait another two years before deciding on that though…but should now of nothing will change.

 

[ktdtx]

Just another validation...Retriever knows what he is talking about.

 

[AKDoug]

I have found that just using my iPhone as a mobile hotspot and the Marine Weather on the VHF will give you the weather windows for 3-5 days at a time that you need for your jumps very reliably. There are only a couple of places you need to know the weather for a couple of days ahead to plan a jump, otherwise you are in protected waters for the most part anyway.

If you are crossing the Gulf to reach the "real" Alaska (Prince William Sound or Kodiak) then you will need a longer forecast but 4-5 days will still suffice. Of course you will still be out of reach of weather forecasts using this method, but the periods of time you are in reach of Internet and Marine Weather won't affect your plans.

 

[sunchaser]

Getting good weather for these areas comes down to how much detail and expense you are comfortable with. For over half a century we've done fine with Marine weather over the VHF. Timely stops in Port McNeil allow you to accurately get Cape Caution forecasts from a multitude of WiFi sources such as Windy and Predict Wind. Good Wi-Fi at both Klemtu and Bella Bella assist in Central BC planning and when approaching Cape Caution from the North .

There is good WiFi coverage around Prince Rupert which allows one again to pull up the weather apps. We use In Reach too thus we're never out of contact with weather sources and text with those friends who are loaded with weather data if need be. Dixon Entrance, more so than Cape Caution, has been a grab bag of enroute changes to keep us moving as sea conditions conflate with the best of predictions.

Once into AK, the vastness and layup areas to wait things are the fun and challenges of being there. In many locales of BC and AK we find tides and currents to be important, with benign winds against current posing some uncomfortable conditions let alone affecting VMG.

Last summer we did about 3,000 NM in BC, AK and WA. We were able to avoid bad weather with a few lay days and keeping a weather eye open. Again, how much money you choose to spend and equipment utilized is a personal rather than a must have decision. Of course, traveling in our DeFever does tend to flatten out the seas a bit.

 

[Lepke]

IMO the biggest consideration is unpleasant sea conditions caused by high winds. For me the best source for winds has been windy.com.

I've found the marine broadcast forecast to be a report on current conditions. Sometimes even past conditions.They are bureaucrats after all.

 

[Ken E.]

Sunchaser summed up, that you can spend progressively more money to upgrade forecast information but good, basic information is available from Environment Canada via VHF or their website. Same for SE Alaska. I like to see what Windy has to say too, but my go-to for many trips north has been the government VHF broadcasts.

 

[Ventana]

Another vote for VHF weather unless you want to spend a bunch of money.

Sunchaser, have you really been doing the Inside Passage for 50 years?
I thought I had a lot of miles in the area but not like that.

 

[tpbrady]

The only thing I can add is that the NWS does a poor job of maintaining weather transmitters in SE Alaska. Here is the current status of transmitters there: https://www.weather.gov/nwr/outages. Cape Fanshaw has been out of service for more than a year but one of the sites you can get to without a helicopter. This means there has been no weather radio coverage of most of Stephens passage. The other outage affects the southern part of Chatham St. In both of these areas there is no cell coverage. For travels in SE I recommend you bookmark the text only NWS marine forecast link. With one bar of 4G you can probably get the data. Since it really only changes once every 12 hours you only need to look at it at after 4am and 4PM. For weather observations in SE, does an equally poor job of organizing the observations into an easily received text format. The Marine Exchange of Alaska has their own observation sites that sometimes duplicate NWS observations sites. In addition the NWS treats buoys operated by NOAA as separate from their land observations so you can’t look at a single location to get a geographical distribution of observations in a specific area. The best solution to this I have found is to bookmark all the sources of observations in folders organized geographically. This minimizes the data requirement.

Tom

 

[sunchaser]

Another vote for VHF weather unless you want to spend a bunch of money.

Sunchaser, have you really been doing the Inside Passage for 50 years?
I thought I had a lot of miles in the area but not like that.

In May of 1971 I purchased a Hourston Glascraft in Vancouver. Pretty well covered areas south of Campbell River and inland BC lakes. With larger craft over the years and charters we pretty well covered BC but not AK until I retired and bought a mission capable boat.

Our current vessel was based upon cruising PNW after considering other global options.

 

[Alaskaflyer]

SiriusXM weather is not very useful, in my opinion. Sometimes it slowly gets the Environment Canada or NOAA forecasts. Sometimes they're current and for the correct area. Sometimes it'll show some of the important weather reporting stations.

I think Windy and PredictWind offer far more accurate, granular, and informative weather visualization products than either the US or Canadian governments. I generally like Windy better, but PredictWind works over IridiumGo (slow but reliable) when there's no cell service. PredictWind also has more advanced weather routing and departure planning features.

Windy and PredictWind allow you to view a whole bunch of forecast models. I've found the ECMWF model is the most accurate, and looking at gusts gives a more realistic picture of what conditions will be like. I look at all the models and favor the ECMWF, but err on the side of caution and make decisions based on the model that shows the worst weather.

PredictWind + Iridium Go is my choice. Between the unlimited data plan and an upgraded pro account, I probably spend $200 a month with PredictWind. I'm very happy with the value. Much of the time there's cell service and the Iridium sits idle. But accurate, updated weather forecasts when out of cell service--perhaps a third of the time--makes for more relaxing and enjoyable cruising.

An alternative is to use something like an InReach and have a trusted friend or family member forward you information. There's no graphical display of the weather, though.

I also have a weather fax aboard. No service fees, but not that reliable, granular, or confidence inspiring.

Just a little more detail on this.

The aforementioned PredictWind + Iridium Go partnership. You can check out the details here: https://www.predictwind.com/iridium-go/
It’s a remote Internet hotspot solution that provides slow data for email and other less-data-intensive applications, weather from PredictWind, and voice calling and texting from your own smartphone via wifi. The unit is about the size and weight of an old digital camera and comes with an integrated antenna or you can buy mounting solutions including external mounted antenna for the boat. Pricey compared to Sirious XM weather or some of the other solutions below.

The Garmin InReach/InReach Mini also provides weather on your smartphone or tablet via the proprietary Garmin application, or on the LCD screen on the device itself. Garmin advertises a marine weather product, basic is included or a premium ($1 per instance) provides more detail and a wider prediction area. However, graphics such as wind mapping, radar, etc are not available.

Most of the other modern satellite communicators such as Zoleo, ACR Bivy Stick etc also provide included or premium weather products at various levels, though Garmin is the only one I’m aware of (subject to correction of course) that has marine specific weather and forecasts.

If I were serious I would give a hard look at the Iridium Go and PredictWind package for use when I’m not in cell range since it can also be used for voice, email and other data too. But since we already have Garmin InReach Minis, I’ll use that marine weather application for now and suffer without the graphical rendering

 

[GoldenDawn]

There are even a few gaps in VHF weather coverage (Kitkatla for example). One work around that we used was with the Garmin InReach satellite messenger. We texted a friend to send the Env Canada forecast along with the local buoy and light station reports; we used this for our Hecate Strait crossing and it worked perfectly.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Is the OP talking about South East Alaska or crossing the gulf?

I look at all the weather that I can to make my "Go-No Go" decision. All weather sites mentioned above I have used and relied on to make my decision. SEAK can be a challenge.

Another source for marine weather is the Canadian Lighthouse and reporting buoys for real time weather. You can get this from Environmental Canada along with the codes from the lighthouse forecast.

If you are going further up the coast to South Central Alaska, may I suggest a marine weather service. I have used these folks (I have no association):

https://www.oceanmarinenav.com/

Most important on ASD: Admiral has "veto" power on "Go-No Go" decision due to weather. If we don't agree we don't go.

Good Luck

 

[eheffa]

We cruise the BC mid coast quite regularly and have been to Haida Gwaii & SE Alaska once.

We find access to VHF marine reports & forecasts to be spotty in many of the more remote parts of the coast.

Our InReach unit gives us good texting contact with people back home who can feed us marine weather synopses by Sat Text. (The InReach Earthmate App’s marine weather is totally useless in providing anything useful. Most of the time it will return a message that we are ‘not on a recognized body of water’.)

Occasionally, we will resort to hailing passing boats for their information. (We once did that while holed up in Foggy Bay, AK when Sunchaser V passed by. They were able to affirm that it was reasonable to make a run for Prince Rupert when our VHF reception was spotty and we had limited information… thank you Sunchaser ;-)

Maybe a more expensive Satellite data link would be indicated (Iridium go?) but you can usually get enough information to answer the go / not go questions without that.

-Evan
Nordic Tug 37
TUGAWAY

 

[rpackard]

I have spent the past 29 summers on that route. It is so protected that I rarely access weather. Queen Charlotte Strait and Dixon Entrance are the only open ocean sections and both of those are described by noaa weather and Environmental Canada, broadcast on VHF. In all other sections if it is too rough, there is almost always a sheltered anchorage nearby. Obviously you have to avoid traveling with tidal current against a strong wind.

I do have an Iridium Go with Predict Wind on board. These are very useful in Mexico because that regions offers little shelter. I never used it in the Inside Passage.

 

[DavidJofAK]

A vote for PredictWind and Iridium GO

Having lived in Southeast Alaska (Ketchikan and now Sitka) since 1974 and done a lot of boating all over Southeast, and having made the trip from Puget Sound to Ketchikan most recently in each of the past two Septembers, I would recommend PredictWind with or without Iridium GO as a most reliable source for weather. VHF and government broadcasts are useful but not as reliable, in my opinion. And be flexible and sensible about when to cross Queen Charlotte and Milbank and Dixon Entrance. And be careful with tidal currents in places like Seymour Narrows and the long, narrow channels. The best cellphone coverage for the trip and SE Alaska is ATT, in my opinion, and there are plans that do not charge extra for using your phone in USA and Canada.
And remember: the most dangerous accessory on a cruising pleasure boat is a schedule.

 

[DDW]

Those of you using IridiumGo and PredictWind: How many data minutes are used to retrieve a forecast? Using WiFi or cellular it appears to be fairly data intensive, Iridium being as slow as it is it seems like you might use up a 150 minute/mo plan in a lot less than a month. Is it only practical to use on an unlimited data plan?

 

[Portage_Bay]

Alaskaflyer, I'm curious how you get the InReach weather to work. I've got the professional account and have tried without success using the device or the Earthmate phone app. All I get is what eheffa gets telling me I need to be on a body of water. Even when 25 miles off the coast in the Pacific Ocean. I have complained multiple times to Garmin with no resolution.

The Garmin InReach/InReach Mini also provides weather on your smartphone or tablet via the proprietary Garmin application, or on the LCD screen on the device itself. Garmin advertises a marine weather product, basic is included or a premium ($1 per instance) provides more detail and a wider prediction area. However, graphics such as wind mapping, radar, etc are not available.

(The InReach Earthmate App’s marine weather is totally useless in providing anything useful. Most of the time it will return a message that we are ‘not on a recognized body of water’.)

 

[DDW]

^^ FWIW I get the same thing on my inReach. I have gotten it to work occasionally, but more often, not.

 

[Seevee]

I could argue that CURRENT weather is most important and would argue that XM is WAY better than internet software algorithms like windy and predict wind can do.



One really needs current weather and forecasts that are very short range, wherever you get them from.

 

[Alaskaflyer]

Alaskaflyer, I'm curious how you get the InReach weather to work. I've got the professional account and have tried without success using the device or the Earthmate phone app. All I get is what eheffa gets telling me I need to be on a body of water. Even when 25 miles off the coast in the Pacific Ocean. I have complained multiple times to Garmin with no resolution.

The only place I’ve used their marine weather - so far - is the San Juan Islands with no issue though it was mostly as an experiment since we typically have cell data in all but one or two anchorages. I use their basic weather more but that’s on land around the eastern Sierra.

 

[sunchaser]

With our In Reach we find texting friends who have land based or large yacht all inclusive weather data is very worthwhile. We've found Clarence Strait in AK to be the most difficult to assess no matter how much data is coming in. Large open areas, nearly 60 miles of fetch and serious conflicting tides/currents create interesting conditions. Then there is Lynn Canal

TP Brady and Eric have some first hand Clarence Strait experience I've paid attention to over the years. Local knowledge is a real plus when cruising AK.

 

[DDW]

I could argue that CURRENT weather is most important and would argue that XM is WAY better than internet software algorithms like windy and predict wind can do.



One really needs current weather and forecasts that are very short range, wherever you get them from.

I'd agree that the most useful things on XM weather are the doppler radar pictures and the buoy reports. Also back east the real time lightening was useful. The wind predictions on XM seem to be simply gribs from the NOAA GFS model.
For predictions PredictWind is far better, as it models terrain, at a much smaller grid scale, and you can compare several models to see the uncertainty. But if all you have is 3 day old PredictWind and current XM GFS gribs, you are probably better off with the latter.

 

[tpbrady]

My experience with XM weather in SE Alaska was not good. I used on both Garmin and Lowrance MFDs, and its output product was poor at best. It didn't update reliably or include all the observation data that was available from its data source which at the time was WSI. The problem appeared to be in the way Garmin and Lowrance parsed the data. While WSI sent data from observation sites on land that were reported by NOAA, neither Garmin nor Lowrance would show them. They limited observations to those reported by buoys only. Garmin has since replaced their XM weather module, but I haven't wanted to roll the dice on a $600 sensor with no assurance it would work. The only thing that seemed to have worked well on the Garmin was real time lightning reports from Florida.

If somebody has had a different experience with XM weather in SE Alaska please let me know.

Tom

 

[Alaskaflyer]

Windy shows current weather: local station reports including buoys, satellite imagery, isolines and Doppler radar where available in addition to their wind and wave modeling. I have to think PredictWind does the same - at least for the paid version. What am I missing other than the need for internet access?

 

[eheffa]

Windy shows current weather: local station reports including buoys, satellite imagery, isolines and Doppler radar where available in addition to their wind and wave modeling. I have to think PredictWind does the same - at least for the paid version. What am I missing other than the need for internet access?

That's the rub..without a robust satellite connection, internet access is simply not there for the vast majority of the coast. (Cell service is only clustered around the population areas like Port McNeill, Shearwater, Prince Rupert etc.)

The InReach can give you texting contact with those who can access the internet on your behalf but short of Iridium Go or similar connectivity, you are not going to be able to directly access the graphics of Windy or other internet based tools.


-evan