What Dinghy engine should I buy?

[SAILKANE]

Looking to replace my Yamaha 8 hp engine. Looking at 9.9 - max 15 hp.
What is your suggestions and why?

 

[Larry M]

Is your Yamaha a 2 stroke? If so, I think you'll be amazed at the added weight difference if you end up with a 4 stroke. What dinghy would the new engine be going on?

 

[Capt.Bill11]

I'm with Larry, more background info please.

 

[SAILKANE]

AB dinghy 11feet. Yamaha 2 stroke 60 lbs. My concern is the increased weight of a 4 stroke making the 9.9 hp not much faster than my 8 hp and a 15 being to heavy to lift?

 

[DavidM]

You probably won't see any significantly better performance with a 4 stroke 10 hp over your two stroke 8 hp. Some 10s and 15s share the same block, so there is no weight difference.

I would look for the lightest 15 hp 4 stroke I can find. Get a flat pitch prop to make it easier to get up on plane.

David

 

[Bay Pelican]

Advice for anyone switching from two stroke to four stroke. If your wife/woman is going to cruise with you make sure she can pull start the four stroke you are planning to buy.

Things have changed recently but a number of friends dumped four strokes after they found their wife couldn't start the engine.

 

[Sealife]

In preparation for our cruise, I recently found out the 4 strokes cannot handle the lesser quality/dirty out of country fuel. Apparently they have smaller jets, etc. Just a thought depending on your cruising itinerary.

Scott

 

[Diesel Duck]

Go to the Bahamas and purchase a new 2 stroke there.

 

[caltexflanc]

Why not call AB and find out what they recommend for your exact model (they've made a number of 11'ish boats). New York

 

[healhustler]

Go to the Bahamas and purchase a new 2 stroke there.

As far as starting, my Admiral is already on the edge with a 9.9 two stroke Merc. Four stroke, no way. Plus, with a 9 ft. Caribe, the four-stroke really squats. One of our Krogen friends traded their new four-stroke 9.9 Merc for a used two-stroke 9.9 Merc for that reason. If I have to go with a four-stroke, for Island cruising it may as well be a 15 cuz it's the same weight and a 15 does help down there with long distance anchorages.

For loop cruising, I'm looking at Lehr propane units.....probably a 2 HP for dinghy jogging and maybe a 9.9 or 15 for a get-home.

 

[BandB]

I saw the words pull start. I have to advise that no one over 50 should be pull starting any engine. It's the worst motion you can do for your heart. I know people do it all the time, but cardiologists warn against it. Oh, I might add that my father's fatal heart attacks came from pull starting a leaf mulcher.

 

[kthoennes]

I saw the words pull start. I have to advise that no one over 50 should be pull starting any engine. It's the worst motion you can do for your heart. I know people do it all the time, but cardiologists warn against it. Oh, I might add that my father's fatal heart attacks came from pull starting a leaf mulcher.

That allegation or warning has come up before on this forum and maybe others, but I still have never seen any documentation or studies that substantiate that pull-starting is a particular cardiac risk. It seems to me that if that were really the case, every company that makes lawn mowers to chain saws to power washers to snowblowers to outboard motors would be getting their pants sued off in this litigious society. Strenuous, sure, even triggers heart attacks, sure, but where does this idea come from that pulling a starting cord poses a cardiac risk greater than any other vigorous exertion? (Somewhere I read that snow shoveling was the most deadly exertion statistically, but now I can't find it.)

 

[BandB]

That allegation or warning has come up before on this forum and maybe others, but I still have never seen any documentation or studies that substantiate that pull-starting is a particular cardiac risk. It seems to me that if that were really the case, every company that makes lawn mowers to chain saws to power washers to snowblowers to outboard motors would be getting their pants sued off in this litigious society. Strenuous, sure, even triggers heart attacks, sure, but where does this idea come from that pulling a starting cord poses a cardiac risk greater than any other vigorous exertion? (Somewhere I read that snow shoveling was the most deadly exertion statistically, but now I can't find it.)

I can't prove it. I have heard it from enough cardiologists to believe it. Everyone makes their choice and in this case will have to make it based on their personal belief. Still, i issue that warning and readily admit it's all anecdotal, not proven through research or trials. Would the person who has a heart attack cranking something manually or the person shoveling snow have had their heart attack anyway? They might well have. I can't say. As to lawn mowers there are so many other injuries and dangers that keep people going to emergency rooms without having heart attacks.

I personally feel that exerting oneself cranking an engine manually is a risk I wouldn't take over electric. I think the issues do probably come from hard to start and people not knowing when to give up or stop.

 

[Dougcole]

Some good points on here. We switched from a 2 stroke 15hp Johnson (it was stolen) to a 20 hp 4 stroke Suzuki. They were on a 10' Caribe Light.

The 15 hp and 20 HP Zukis weigh the exact same, so I saw no reason to go with the 15.

The 2 stroke was faster out of the hole, easier to start, and faster at tope end than the 20hp. Plus the dinghy squatted with the 4 stroke.

I ended up trading our 10' dinghy for an 11' Caribe Light to compensate for the heavier motor. It's worked pretty well, plus the extra space is nice.

Sure do miss my 2 stroke though.

So at 50 years old, I'm more likely to have a heart attack starting my outboard than sprinting the last 200 meters of a 5K like I did this morning?

 

[Nomad Willy]

Sailkane,
Is your engine going to stay on the dink?
If not weight will be your deciding factor. Air cooled OB engines are very noisy. My 2hp Yamadog is tollerable to half throttle but very noisy at 3/4. Air cooled are even more noise but quite a few people here on TF think they are OK. Try one. Two stroke and you don't need to worry about how you lay them down.
My wife loved our old 6hp Johnson. Took the dink everywhere by herself.
With a four stroke OB one needs a longer boat to support the weight and I do'nt even want to consider carrying a 4S OB over 5hp.
The old two strokes are still the best small OB .......IMO.

 

[Phyrcooler]

That allegation or warning has come up before on this forum and maybe others, but I still have never seen any documentation or studies that substantiate that pull-starting is a particular cardiac risk. It seems to me that if that were really the case, every company that makes lawn mowers to chain saws to power washers to snowblowers to outboard motors would be getting their pants sued off in this litigious society. Strenuous, sure, even triggers heart attacks, sure, but where does this idea come from that pulling a starting cord poses a cardiac risk greater than any other vigorous exertion? (Somewhere I read that snow shoveling was the most deadly exertion statistically, but now I can't find it.)

I can't prove it. I have heard it from enough cardiologists to believe it. Everyone makes their choice and in this case will have to make it based on their personal belief. Still, i issue that warning and readily admit it's all anecdotal, not proven through research or trials. Would the person who has a heart attack cranking something manually or the person shoveling snow have had their heart attack anyway? They might well have. I can't say. As to lawn mowers there are so many other injuries and dangers that keep people going to emergency rooms without having heart attacks.

I personally feel that exerting oneself cranking an engine manually is a risk I wouldn't take over electric. I think the issues do probably come from hard to start and people not knowing when to give up or stop.

Not wanting to promote thread drift... but since this has come up a couple times recently... thought I'd weigh in.

With over 30 years of field experience in emergency services, and having personally treated literally hundreds of "full arrests" in that time, I have seen no correlation to pull starters - be they on OB, mowers, chainsaws or blowers. That said, I have seen some codes that did occur during/after exertion (jogging, golfing, and even... sex) and would make the assumptive leap that the cardiac event could have been triggered by that exertion. Codes during or after physical exertion were definitely in the minority, vs many other activities - or frankly no activity. However, I am sure that Mr. BandB's heartfelt warning after the loss of his father is well intentioned.

My background is much stronger in physiology then kinesiology... and in both cases, would still defer to those much more knowledgeable than I as to whether there is any causative link between pull starters and a cardiac event. Personally, even in my 50's, I'm more worried about further injuring my worn out shoulder than a cardiac event from yanking on that cord. Irregardless, there is some wisdom in both posts - namely that pulling on a start cord for any motor could quickly become both strenuous and stressful, depending on the circumstances. I highlighted a section above from Mr. BandB which pretty much says the same thing. If you need to go big... pony up for electric start and don't risk hurting yourself or worse.

 

[BandB]

Not wanting to promote thread drift... but since this has come up a couple times recently... thought I'd weigh in.

With over 30 years of field experience in emergency services, and having personally treated literally hundreds of "full arrests" in that time, I have seen no correlation to pull starters - be they on OB, mowers, chainsaws or blowers. That said, I have seen some codes that did occur during/after exertion (jogging, golfing, and even... sex) and would make the assumptive leap that the cardiac event could have been triggered by that exertion. Codes during or after physical exertion were definitely in the minority, vs many other activities - or frankly no activity. However, I am sure that Mr. BandB's heartfelt warning after the loss of his father is well intentioned.

My background is much stronger in physiology then kinesiology... and in both cases, would still defer to those much more knowledgeable than I as to whether there is any causative link between pull starters and a cardiac event. Personally, even in my 50's, I'm more worried about further injuring my worn out shoulder than a cardiac event from yanking on that cord. Irregardless, there is some wisdom in both posts - namely that pulling on a start cord for any motor could quickly become both strenuous and stressful, depending on the circumstances. I highlighted a section above from Mr. BandB which pretty much says the same thing. If you need to go big... pony up for electric start and don't risk hurting yourself or worse.

All you've said makes a lot of sense. It's one of those "given a choice, which would I choose". Personally if it's going to be exertion, I'd choose sex over the others you mention. Now the open question is does the OP leave it on the boat or remove it. Handling and lifting is the bigger issue if removing it.

 

[windmist]

Back to the original question, you might look at the Tohatsu 9.8. Its weighs around 80 lbs and you can hardly hear it when it is running. You can buy one from:

Outboard Motors |Tohatsu, Suzuki, Mercury & Nissan Outboards for about $1900.

If you go 15 hp or above, I'd get a Suzuki electric start as it is fuel injected - no carburetor. That what I'm looking at for my current 10 ft Avon.

 

[Rip]

The 15 hp Suzuki EFI can be manual start at 96 lbs. First pull engergizes the ECM and the engine starts on 2nd pull after sitting all winter. The admiral uses it most for Shore Dooty (name of dinghy) w/ our Lab so she got to pick electric or not - chose not (easier to lift w/ davits). On year 3 on 9.5 AB Lammina and it moves out with all 3 of us. When we sell this boat she's already told me they won't get her tender...

Rip
M/V Lab Partners

 

[HopCar]

The problem of squating can be corrected with the addition of fixed trim tabs.

The Lehr propane fueled 9.9 and 15 are available with a small battery under the hood to turn the electric starter. The 15 also has an automatic compression release that makes it easier to manually start.

 

[hollywood8118]

I saw the words pull start. I have to advise that no one over 50 should be pull starting any engine. It's the worst motion you can do for your heart. I know people do it all the time, but cardiologists warn against it. Oh, I might add that my father's fatal heart attacks came from pull starting a leaf mulcher.

Finally proof that I can show the admiral that yard work kills..I have been using that line for years!

Hollywood

 

[BandB]

Finally proof that I can show the admiral that yard work kills..I have been using that line for years!

Hollywood

Glad to be of help. I use to wonder who decided grass was a good idea? I'm sure sometime in history one person planted it and it suddenly became the thing to do, then spread.

Now, I had a great way of getting out of mowing grass once I was diagnosed in my late teen years with a severe allergy to cut grass. Sure wish I'd been diagnosed earlier.

 

[Capt.Bill11]

In preparation for our cruise, I recently found out the 4 strokes cannot handle the lesser quality/dirty out of country fuel. Apparently they have smaller jets, etc. Just a thought depending on your cruising itinerary.

Scott

Hmmm... When you travel out of the country you see 4 strokes everywhere. Maybe it just a matter of proper filtration and using a good fuel treatment but I've never had a fuel issue with the 4 strokes I've run out in other countries.

 

[High Wire]

We sold a perfectly good low hour Tohatsu 6 hp 4 stroke because it would not plane off the 8.6 RHIB. The replacement was a 20 year old Evinrude 9.9 2 stroke for $300. Carb kit, 2 spark plugs, and a waterpump kit for about $120. Result is 70 pounds of smooth running and easy to start pleasure. And if it gets stolen, there are many more sitting around in decent shape.

 

[Rip]

I also should have noted the EFI Suzukis are reportedly immune to ethenol issues and once the ECM is energized they start first pull (seems to stay energized when used daily). We are late 50s and the Admiral is 5' tall.

Rip
M/V Lab Partners
Monk 36 #247

 

[ranger58sb]

We switched to a Suzuki DF15A at the beginning of the 2014 season. Lightest electric-start I could find (106-lbs), and the only "portable" (9.9/15/20-hp) models available with fuel injection. (15 is because of the max HP rating for our dink.)


BUT... I couldn't have done that before we acquired a dinghy trailer.... so we can leave the motor mounted all the time.


Used to be 10- and 15-hp 2-stroke models shared the same platform so weighed the same. Not so with 4-strokes; now the 8- and 9.9-hp models are usually the same base weight, and 15- and 20-hp models are a heavier (common) weight. Suzuki, for some reason, has apparently chosen to make a 9.9-hp model based on the same platform as their 15/20s... which seems little odd, but it does include the fuel injection.


So far, no issues with ethanol.


Electric start so we can both start the thing equally well; wifey needs the assist, and my shoulders are so hosed that pull-starting isn't fun for me anymore.


Can't compare (other than on-paper specs) to other 4-stroke models; don't have hands-on experience with others.


-Chris

 

[BandB]

Evinrude 9.8: 81-104 lbs
Yamaha 9.9: 87-93 lbs
Suzuki 9.9: 87-120 lbs
Mercury 9.9: 84-108 lbs.
Tohatsu 9.8: 82-? lbs.
Honda 9.9: 92-107 lbs.
Lehr 9.9: 88 lbs.


Mercury 9.8 (1974 model): 65 lbs.
Evinrude 9.9 (1974 model): 65-73 lbs.
Tohatsu 9.8 (1981 model): 68 lbs.
Chrysler 9.9 (1980 model): 58-79 lbs.
Honda 9.9 (1978 model): 75 lbs.
Force 9.9 (1984 model): 58 lbs.

I think for most people lifting 70 lbs is tolerable but lifting 100 lbs just becomes too much. In industry, 60 lbs is the maximum lifting supposed to be done without equipment.

 

[Forkliftt]

We sold a perfectly good low hour Tohatsu 6 hp 4 stroke because it would not plane off the 8.6 RHIB. The replacement was a 20 year old Evinrude 9.9 2 stroke for $300. Carb kit, 2 spark plugs, and a waterpump kit for about $120. Result is 70 pounds of smooth running and easy to start pleasure. And if it gets stolen, there are many more sitting around in decent shape.

The Admiral wisely insisted that I purchase an engine for the last dink (rib 340) that I could remove from the dink at the swim platform- tote up the ladder and stow on a mount I fabricated on the aft deck railings. The Merc 3.5 4 stroke (Tohatsu) got the nod. Mostly a good choice since the dink spent its life generally sitting in the water snapped to the Weavers (mostly a bad choice ;()
Fast forward. New Rib 350, I fit it to a trailer and now drop the girl in the water when at the boat- and remove it for a thorough wash/ rinse and then covered. I've got the nod to start shopping for a replacement engine- and probably will order a 15 hp/ short shaft/ battery start/ with a long tiller to allow me to balance the dink better when on plane. Second choice would be a seasoned 2 stroke- would probably take care of the maintenance issues mentioned above/ purchase a new tank/ then ship it to Hopkins Carter for Bill to needle scale/ prime/ paint OEM colors and then apply decals....As my saltwater fishing skills evolve (currently seem to be non existent) the ability to reach those honey holes in a timely manner will be greatly enhanced...



Forky
1983 Present 42 Sundeck
Twin Lehman 135's

 

[twistedtree]

We had an 11' Avon - pretty much identical to the AB - and had a 15HP honda with electric start. The electric start solved the problem of who can pull start the motor and who can't. And 15HP was plenty of power. Our davit and general use of the dinghy did not require taking the engine on and off, so the weight of the engine and extra connections of the battery was not an issue for us. If you have to constantly install and remove the engine then weight and the number of connections would really matter.

 

[HopCar]

I've decided that I don't want to wrestle any engine over fifty pounds. That limits me to about five HP with four cycle engines. Little Possum can't carry much of a dinghy anyway so I just go slow.