Who has/uses AIS?

[Old Sea Dog]

Bought a boat whose owner had passed away. Wife had no clue about the systems on the boat even after living on it for 15 years. Adult son was tasked with cleaning the boat and he took EVERY piece of paperwork, manuals, and logs from the boat. I haven't boated since the '80s. Do not know if there is AIS onboard or not. How do you change the name on it? Do I just trash the 2 vhf's on the boat and buy new ones? Sounds like AIS is mandatory if cruising in Canadian waters.
As far as "morally right", that hasn't happened since the '50s. More people getting killed because of texting while driving than boating without AIS.....

 

[Martin610]

Larger vessels like tankers and cargo ships can have a fairly large donut hole in their radar. Hard for them to see a small vessel close in. I am occasionally near the Port of New York for trips I take. AIS is very valuable to me.

 

[Gdavid]

Bought a boat whose owner had passed away. Wife had no clue about the systems on the boat even after living on it for 15 years. Adult son was tasked with cleaning the boat and he took EVERY piece of paperwork, manuals, and logs from the boat. I haven't boated since the '80s. Do not know if there is AIS onboard or not. How do you change the name on it? Do I just trash the 2 vhf's on the boat and buy new ones? Sounds like AIS is mandatory if cruising in Canadian waters.
As far as "morally right", that hasn't happened since the '50s. More people getting killed because of texting while driving than boating without AIS.....

Write down the brand and model number of every piece of electronics and you should be able to find an installation and user manual for every piece. If you cannot find a pdf of the manual, it may be too obsolete to bother with. Trace your wiring to identify modules hidden out of sight, which is typical for autopilots, some depth sounders and various interface modules.

 

[SteveK]

Sounds like AIS is mandatory if cruising in Canadian waters

I don't think that is correct.

 

[Portage_Bay]

....Sounds like AIS is mandatory if cruising in Canadian waters. .....

Transport Canada is expanding AIS carriage requirements.

The expanded requirements will apply to every vessel on a voyage other than a sheltered waters voyage, if she is

certified to carry more than 12 passengers; or

eight metres or more in length and is carrying passengers.

The AIS may be a Class A or Class B type.

source https://tc.canada.ca/en/marine-tran...ins/expanding-ais-requirements-ssb-no-09-2019

 

[Bob328]

While going around Mackinac about 1am, I encountered a few lake freighters. One was off to port and called my boat by name requesting our intended route. We replied that we were staying within a mile of shore and continuing south. He requested port pass and we continued uneventfully. When you're tired after a 190 mile run, it is reassuring to know what's going on.

 

[Marco Flamingo]

I bought a VHF for my small boat which has only AIS recieve. When connected to my MDF, it only took a couple of times out to see the value. Then I bought a trans/recieve for my trawler. I have a few stories where it was very nice to have, but the biggest benefit is simly day to day usage. If I see lights about 12 miles away, I can plot that on the radar and, in a few minutes, have some idea as to the course and speed of the other vessel and maybe a guess as to whether it is a tow, a freighter, etc. If it appears to be approaching I continue to plot. With AIS, I have the information in 10 seconds, including the ability to make a direct VHS call. Saves time, which allows me more time to watch out the window. Watching out the window is allegedly the secret of the non-AIS crowd, yet having AIS provides more time to do so.

 

[RCook]

Transport Canada is expanding AIS carriage requirements.

The expanded requirements will apply to every vessel on a voyage other than a sheltered waters voyage, if she is

certified to carry more than 12 passengers; or

eight metres or more in length and is carrying passengers.

The AIS may be a Class A or Class B type.

source https://tc.canada.ca/en/marine-tran...ins/expanding-ais-requirements-ssb-no-09-2019

We have an AIS transceiver and find it very useful, especially in fog. But curious:

Would the Inside Passage (in Canada, the BC coast) be "sheltered waters"? Seems like not all of it, per this definition:

Transport Canada defines sheltered waters voyages as a voyage in Canada, on a lake or river above tidal waters, where a vessel can never be further than 2.5 nautical miles from shore (measured either from the mainland or from an island the vessel can use as a safe refuge from the weather) as per the Policy outlined in the following Ship Safety Bulletin: https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/marinesafety/bulletins-2017-08-eng.htm.

I'd guess "carrying passengers" refers to paying passengers, but not sure.

 

[Porgy]

I'd guess "carrying passengers" refers to paying passengers, but not sure.

From Transport Canada- You aren’t a passenger if:

“…a guest on board the ship, if the ship is used exclusively for pleasure and the guest is carried on it without remuneration or any object of profit…”

 

[koliver]

We have an AIS transceiver and find it very useful, especially in fog. But curious:

Would the Inside Passage (in Canada, the BC coast) be "sheltered waters"? Seems like not all of it, per this definition:

Transport Canada defines sheltered waters voyages as a voyage in Canada, on a lake or river above tidal waters, where a vessel can never be further than 2.5 nautical miles from shore (measured either from the mainland or from an island the vessel can use as a safe refuge from the weather) as per the Policy outlined in the following Ship Safety Bulletin: https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/marinesafety/bulletins-2017-08-eng.htm.

I'd guess "carrying passengers" refers to paying passengers, but not sure.

When you become a commercial carrier of passengers, you are still exempt in sheltered waters, but without paying passengers, exempt everywhere.

 

[koliver]

We had a transceiver on the last boat, and now have added on to this boat.

Especially useful in fog with big ships around, so we can arrange to keep out of their way. Sometimes useful for that in clear weather, too.

Sometimes useful to see the name of a recreational boat so we can hail and discuss passing or crossing or whatever. Not many recreational boats around here have it, though, so AIS is in no way a replacement for radar.




Is that monthly? In any case, seems like it might not take many $37.99s to pay for an AIS transceiver.

-Chris

That is an annual charge, but it also get s updated charts on a reliable charting system, which, though on your phone, is an excellent backup that stays with you even when you go ashore. All it needs to be useful is a clear view of the GPS sky.
To TT's comment, though I often use the SeaNav as a navigation tool, AIS, where I boat, is for identification and navigation only when there is something large that I need to identify as to its CPA. CPA in real time is a very important part of the information that can be obtained on the App. Keeping track in real time of such information can only enhance navigation.
That occurs with BC Ferries most often and with Freighters when I am crossing the Traffic Separation Lanes in Georgia Straight.

 

[Gordon J]

Definately

Thanks everyone!



Good point. It's for a new Helmsman 38. Usage area will be coastal New England, Long Island Sound north to the Maine coast.

I would definately have. On the current boat, located in Croatia, I have a switch to turn on the transmit side. In many ways this is more helpful than radar.

How many times have you seen a boat and hailed it, something like " large red south bound freighter at approx xxxxxlat and yyyyylong, this is motor vessel humpty, over." And get nothing but crickets because the crew did not recognize they were being hailed. Calling a boat by name solves a lot of problem. Also, by transmitting you are letting everyone know where you are. Like most radars, AIS will compute a closest point of approach.

 

[danderer]

Xmit and receive - wouldn't leave home without it.

I find it most useful for monitoring and coordinating with commercial traffic. I prefer to talk to them and they seem to appreciate it.

 

[Hippocampus]

Now for some brain work. You guys probably know this but it caught me by surprise when I first experienced this. On AIS or MARPA the possibility exists for there being two CPAs of the same vessel being just feet apart assuming both vessels don’t change SOG or course. Your instruments will read out the closest and the second one won’t show depending upon your devices. One way around this is to make a course correction and see if the time or position of the intercept jumps dramatically. With ships I not only want to miss them but also don’t want to deal with their wake. So when concerned I don’t check the AIS detail page just once even when I know it’s unlikely for a ship to change course or speed but at least a couple of times. That way I know if a jump to a second CPA occurred and I need to do something to avoid wake. It’s rare but does occur.

 

[Nick F]

An interesting comment about AIS:

I heard (unconfirmed) that a BC Ferries captain complained about the number of small craft in Active Pass (a narrow pass near Vancouver) with AIS - the large number of icons cluttered up his GPS display.


Second (unrelated) comment:

I have crossed the English Channel several times in a sailboat with full AIS. I shudder to think of doing it without AIS, especially at night.

 

[Hippocampus]

Easy enough to put radar and AIS on one screen and the chart on another. We often use a split screen if we don’t have two.

 

[Slainte 1]

Ais? - yes!!

As a former SAR Coxswain in the US Coast Guard, stationed on the foggy coast of Maine, I think it should be mandatory for all vessels over 30'. It's about enjoying time on the water, but mostly, it's about safety!! More than one time we'd go out after someone in trouble off the coast and more than once, they had NO idea where they were!! Ignorance of navigation aside, if AIS T/R units were required we would have been able to find them in the fog very easily. In one memorable case, the distressed vessel was EiGHT MILES from where they thought they were!! Solid fog and rough! Inexperience, age, and lack of any real navigational skills, not to mention seamanship skills, almost got two elderly parents, their son, and his brand new wife killed!! Too rough to get them aboard the 44, we towed them in (sailboat). When we finally got them back to the station and tied up, I don't think I've been kissed so many times since my wedding night!!!

So.......IMHO, I'd say install a good unit and sleep better knowing your seen!
Get your AIS!!

 

[Northern Spy]

I primarily use it to determine how full anchorages are in Desolation Sound in the summer and go elsewhere.

Also to get some details on the boats when I look out my kitchen window.

I live and boat in a low density area, so I see no need for it. A class B+ would be a nicety, but not a necessity.

If I lived and boated in the Eastern US, I would definitely have one.

 

[Nick14]

More than one time we'd go out after someone in trouble off the coast and more than once, they had NO idea where they were!!

One time we were heading up the Delaware River in a 34 ft American Tug, chugging along at about 13 knots. A 50-ish ft mega sportfisherman came roaring up alongside us, did a loop around us (on full plane, throwing a massive wake), and then came to a stop about 50 ft away.

The helmsman yelled down from the flybridge, 'Which way is the C&D canal?' I was stunned, incredulous (we were on a RIVER), and with my mouth hanging open, pointed north. He yelled back 'thanks!', slammed the throttles wide open, and roared off, leaving us tossing in his monstrous wake.

 

[ranger58sb]

Now for some brain work. You guys probably know this but it caught me by surprise when I first experienced this. On AIS or MARPA the possibility exists for there being two CPAs of the same vessel being just feet apart assuming both vessels don’t change SOG or course. Your instruments will read out the closest and the second one won’t show depending upon your devices. One way around this is to make a course correction and see if the time or position of the intercept jumps dramatically. With ships I not only want to miss them but also don’t want to deal with their wake. So when concerned I don’t check the AIS detail page just once even when I know it’s unlikely for a ship to change course or speed but at least a couple of times. That way I know if a jump to a second CPA occurred and I need to do something to avoid wake. It’s rare but does occur.

That might be an artifact of that AIS transmission time (lag) thing. Wouldn't expect it too much with a Class A AIS emitters, I've seen more of it with what I assume are Class B AIS emitters, not sure what to expect from Class B+.

Took me a but to get used to it, but finally got comfortable with paying more attention to the radar return when I have both radar and AIS on the same screen or screen segment. (Which is usually.)

Seems like our radar knows where the target is, whereas our AIS receiver knows where the target WAS... ooops.... IS... nope, WAS... er...



-Chris

 

[tiltrider1]

This was a conversation I had with a Puget Sound Pilot about ten years ago. I asked him if it would help if I transmit AIS. He said no. They turn off B model AIS because it clutters up their screens. Radar was what they relied on even on sunny days.

 

[rslifkin]

I'm not convinced that ships are actually hiding class B AIS. There are plenty of smaller commercial vessels transmitting class B (as they're not required to have class A). And unless it's only an option on big ship nav gear, I've never seen a system that can hide based on AIS class.



Realistically, hiding class B targets is stupid, and if they ended up in a collision, I'd expect the ship to be found in violation of Rule 5, as they're intentionally not using information that could help them keep watch accurately. It would be much more practical to hide targets based on CPA and other factors so only targets of potential maneuvering concern are shown and the rest of the clutter isn't.

 

[O C Diver]

Interesting side note, not all AIS software packages display vessels (targets) the same way. Was heading down the Cape Fear river in October at around 5am (tidal currents can reach 3 knots) to take advantage of the out going tide. The USNS Watkins was up bound in the channel as I was down bound.

https://www.navysite.de/akr/akr315.htm

On my Garmin MFD all targets are the same size. On Coastal Explorer, the target size appears to be based on ship's length. At around 1,000' long, the Watkins appeared huge on my PC plotter screen. At a quarter mile, and closing fast, you had to look up to see the navigation lights.

Very nice feature on Coastal Explorer.

Ted

 

[psneeld]

This was a conversation I had with a Puget Sound Pilot about ten years ago. I asked him if it would help if I transmit AIS. He said no. They turn off B model AIS because it clutters up their screens. Radar was what they relied on even on sunny days.

Maybe an experienced taught procedure within a group set of highly experienced mariners to NOT use a system that NOT everyone uses or might have an unexpected outage. Relying too heavily on it can make pros complacent.

Maybe better to leave it out of the equation and focus on all small targets by aggressive radar use.

The philosophy of not using great tech that isn't air tight I don't believe has ever been settled in accident investigations....thus what the Pilots there do based on their experience.

 

[Jeff F]

Maybe an experienced taught procedure within a group set of highly experienced mariners to NOT use a system that NOT everyone uses or might have an unexpected outage. Relying too heavily on it can make pros complacent.

Maybe better to leave it out of the equation and focus on all small targets by aggressive radar use.

The philosophy of not using great tech that isn't air tight I don't believe has ever been settled in accident investigations....thus what the Pilots there do based on their experience.

Yeah, hopefully you're not going to do a close cross without calling the ship. You can see him. Him seeing you really shouldn't be necessary, and should never be assumed.

 

[psneeld]

Yeah, hopefully you're not going to do a close cross without calling the ship. You can see him. Him seeing you really shouldn't be necessary, and should never be assumed.

That is a great fallacy about how the system works.... at some point seeing/talking/transmitting isn't even enough.... it depends on what exactly the little guy does. Think train crossing.....to me, understanding how vehicles/pedestrians get hit by trains at gated crossings is mind boggling. Doesn't matter if the train engineer can see what's going on or even if he's radioed/signaled that the crossing is red....at some point, little he can do about it.

If you do cross in front of a huge ship in some situations....expect to get run over with the ship's crew not blinking an eye or attempting to miss you.

Even if they could stop or turn in time (probably not) they probably won't as the possible results of their actions could be much worse.

I have been in similar collision situations while towing barges and have heard the same from other maritime pros.... they do their best, but even their best is a waste of time in some situations.

So blocking smaller vessels with class B AIS might have reasons most of us little guys can't fathom.

 

[Jeff F]

So blocking smaller vessels with class B AIS might have reasons most of us little guys can't fathom.

I can fathom. It's a feature I might use rarely. New York Harbor on a clear day.

 

[psneeld]

I can fathom. It's a feature I might use rarely. New York Harbor on a clear day.

I read that as turning off Class B in NYC on a clear day....if so....

Me... as a small guy (not a big guy)... might want the opposite.... the big guys aren't moving that fast in NY Harbor and are fairly predictable...it would be the small fast moving commercial guys like high speed ferries, LE boats, faster yachts with no manners or sense and hard to keep your head on a swivel to get CPA alerts.

Once in one of the rivers or almost to Sandy Hook, things open up enough either I don't even need AIS (unless foggy) or it resumes normal operation and it dribbles down my attention list.

 

[Jeff F]

I'm assuming the high speed ferries are class A.

I've only passed through there a couple of times. I guess my point was that decluttering can be useful, and I can imagine that having this as a capability might be useful.

This filtering would be done at an individual screen level. I can choose whether to overlay AIS on my radar screen. Maybe I should be able to show class A only. Or Class B only. Whatever. Why not?

 

[psneeld]

I'm assuming the high speed ferries are class A.

I've only passed through there a couple of times. I guess my point was that decluttering can be useful, and I can imagine that having this as a capability might be useful.

This filtering would be done at an individual screen level. I can choose whether to overlay AIS on my radar screen. Maybe I should be able to show class A only. Or Class B only. Whatever. Why not?

Good points.

Like any piece of gear or technique I adopt...it is usually after a lot of trial and error with most things that come along.

I learned a long time ago that there are many ways/equipment to do things and that some are more suitable for some people, vessels, situations, etc and not others.

So the discussion of AIS and how it's used by boaters for safety and others for other reasons will go on and on with no one opinion being correct.