Willard 1963 Vaga 36 Questions Please

[NurseLinda]

Hi forum members!
I'd like to introduce myself, I've been browsing this Amazing Forum for almost a year. I am looking at a 1963 Vega 36 #20, I was reading the early boats had lead versus steel and concrete ballast and input on this will be greatly appreciated I'm assuming my surveyor should know the difference but just wanted to get a little bit more knowledge regarding this factor.

The current owner is not aware if it has fiberglass or steel fuel tanks. He asumed their fuel tanks arr steel, he did not know that fiberglass was an option. He recently installed a new engine P4-236 and have the fuel polish times two and the tanks inspected the inspector told him the tanks appeared to be an excellent condition.

I was wondering if you could give me your expertise and your opinion on the following Boats .com listing: https://www.boattrader.com/boat/1963-willard-vega-36-trawler-8532385/

I was also interested in your idea about getting stabilizers for this Willard, if I do proceed with the purchase.

Any insight and feedback would be greatly appreciated! T

I live in Southern California looking at polishing up my boating skills on this 36 footer by taking classes and hiring captains/ skippers to show me how to navigate her and then who knows where the fair-winds may direct me.

Forum Folks, thank you in advance for your expertise and any feedback you may give me on this 6 decade old boat that appears to be in good condition.

I will definitely have it pulled out and surveyed once I find a surveyor that specializes in Willard's. Any names for a Willard surveyor would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!
Linda

 

[Bob Cofer]

Hi Linda,

Welcome to the forum. Here are some links to a couple of Facebook groups and an online forum that may be better able to answer your questions. She looks like a nice boat in the photos. If you can find out her name you may be able to get some more information from these sites.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/460799682454364/
https://www.facebook.com/willardboats/
https://willardboatowners.groups.io/

Good luck with your search!

 

[mvweebles]

Hi Linda - welcome aboard.

They say half of life is finding the right person. Of the 39 W36's that were built from 1961-1970, I'd guess around 32-35 survive. I have owned #40, last one struck in 1970, for almost 25-years. I am co-moderator of the Willard Owners Group on Groups.IO, There is a wealth of knowledge on TF about Willards, certainly including the W36. You can subscribe by sending an email to main+subscribe@WillardBoatOwners.groups.io. We have a robust file folder including scanned newsletters from the 1960s, arguably the first "Trawler Forum." I found them 25-years ago aboard Rattler, Hull #1 that was berthed a few slips away from Weebles.

Looks like you've linked to the W36 in Newport Beach. Looks like in 2019, the then-owner posted her to WillardBoats.ORG (a sister-site to WBO). HERE is that listing. I've never been aboard the boat but she looks to be in decent condition. A few comments:

1. New Perkins 4.236. In my opinion, this is the best engine installed in these boats, hands-down (well, I believe one was re-powered with a John Deere 4045 which would be great, but absent that, the Perkins is a good engine for this boat).

2. Concrete Ballast. This boat invariably has concrete ballast (actually, I know of one guy in Louisiana who tore-out the concrete and installed lead - twas a hurricane damaged boat). As long as the concrete was not submerged for a long time, ballast should be fine but should be checked. Excessive spawling is an indicator the concrete is deteriorating but is uncommon. My ballast is really solid.

3. Stabilizers. My boat came with original equipment Vosper hydraulic stabilizers (predecessor to Naiads). I replaced my Vospers with Wesmars around 3-years ago. The equipment was around $25k (note this was before inflation kicked-in). Install would be around $10k. Stabilization is a common topic on TF. Most who have owned a stabilized boat will never own one without, but tossing that kind of money into a <$50k boat is tough. Depending on how you would use the boat, I might do paravanes - outriggers- instead of fin stabilizers.

4. Tanks. Majority of W36 Sedans came with fiberglass tanks. Mine is one of the only ones I know that had steel tanks which I recently had replaced with fiberglass. Gaining acccess to the tank walls to test with a magnet can be hard - maybe on the forward end. I've always wondered why my tank is steel - only theory I can come up with is the tank was shortened a bit to fit-in the stabilizers which were installed just forward of the tanks. Who knows.

5. Common issues. These are pretty simple boats - but they are approaching 60-years old. If steel tanks, should definitely be examined very closely. Windows often need to be replaced - the curved corner windows are difficult to source these days. Water tanks are stainless steel and I know of no reported issues. Gelcoat is faded, though the one in Newport Beach looks in decent condition, but could be favorable pictures.

I hope this helps. I'm pretty biased - huge cheerleader for these boats. Attached picture is Taras (Weebles' original name) on launch day, 1970, in Newport Beach CA.

Peter (Weebles)

 

[Cold Duck]

Just a thought, Willard Boats moved from Costa Mesa and was located in Anaheim across from Disneyland a while back. I showed up there about 15 years ago and they still had the original construction file for my1976 30' Vega. Since you are in the LA area, you might want to try and find them if they are still there. I was lucky enough to have the project manager for the Vegas there that day even though he was retired. He was a wealth of information. I don't know if they are still there, but worth a try.

 

[Comodave]

Welcome aboard.

 

[NurseLinda]

Hi Peter, I try to reach out to you personally, but I have not post enough on the forum for me to have that ability to contact you. Thank You for your fast response, for the last two days... I probably literally spent 20 hours reading through all of the sites, posted within this thread. Read vast majority of your post on the beauty who has your soul and pocketbook -Weebles. Prior to locating this Willard, I was looking at a Grand Banks or an Island Gypsy at double the cost if not more, and then ran across a trawler with an unfamiliar name- Willard. Down the rabbit hole... I went.

These are my questions for the Willard experts!
Back History:
Here are my questions from what I could tell number Hull # (20, owner thinks possible # 25)? went missing in action. It appears she originated from Florida spent some time in Columbia and found her way to Long Beach. Was a live aboard until this current owner picked her up in 2014 at an auction and got her cheap because the Ford Lehman 120 was not functioning. He repaired the FL120 and operated her until she was no longer running and went with the most recent re-power- P 4-236. He said he is a purist and try to keep it to manufacturer specs. He has invested in $$$$ in electronics, told me his friend which is a fantastic electrician, rewired and re-plumbed the 63 Vega 36’. He has the radar but it has not been installed due to the bridge at Newport Dunes. He recently purchased a 55 foot Grand Banks, that is up North because his wife did not like the boat roll on Little Willy -she gets seasick too easily. Otherwise he would've never commissioned her.

1. I was reading from several of the post that the earlier models concrete cores were filled with lead versus steel. If that is the case, would this OK if the hull is cleared by the surveyor and how can "I" tell the difference between metal and lead? Test kit?

2. He said he had three things left to do on Little Willy, replace the windows: He spoke to Mark the window guy out in Corona, and the windows cost about $500 each. I’m not sure if this price includes a reinstall or just price for the window? What is cracked on the starboard side. and he says they do not leak.

3. That is great information about the fuel tanks if they are fiberglass, he had no clue that Willers came with fiberglass fuel tanks, but if they're Not should I walk away? Even if the surveyor okays them?

4. On that Perkins 4-236 engine photo, the elongated triangular back... I assume is the transmission- I'm assuming it was rebuilt too?

5. How well does this vessel navigate close docking quarters? She's a single screw.

6. I'm meeting the owner on Sunday, any pointers? I used to be a home inspector I'm pretty knowledgeable on what to look for, but would love your point of view and input

Thank you, for your expertise, you truly educated me on looking further into this boat.
With deep respect,
Linda

 

[mvweebles]

Hi Peter, I try to reach out to you personally, but I have not post enough on the forum for me to have that ability to contact you. Thank You for your fast response, for the last two days... I probably literally spent 20 hours reading through all of the sites, posted within this thread. Read vast majority of your post on the beauty who has your soul and pocketbook -Weebles. Prior to locating this Willard, I was looking at a Grand Banks or an Island Gypsy at double the cost if not more, and then ran across a trawler with an unfamiliar name- Willard. Down the rabbit hole... I went.

These are my questions for the Willard experts!
Back History:
Here are my questions from what I could tell number Hull # (20, owner thinks possible # 25)? went missing in action. It appears she originated from Florida spent some time in Columbia and found her way to Long Beach. Was a live aboard until this current owner picked her up in 2014 at an auction and got her cheap because the Ford Lehman 120 was not functioning. He repaired the FL120 and operated her until she was no longer running and went with the most recent re-power- P 4-236. He said he is a purist and try to keep it to manufacturer specs. He has invested in $$$$ in electronics, told me his friend which is a fantastic electrician, rewired and re-plumbed the 63 Vega 36’. He has the radar but it has not been installed due to the bridge at Newport Dunes. He recently purchased a 55 foot Grand Banks, that is up North because his wife did not like the boat roll on Little Willy -she gets seasick too easily. Otherwise he would've never commissioned her.

1. I was reading from several of the post that the earlier models concrete cores were filled with lead versus steel. If that is the case, would this OK if the hull is cleared by the surveyor and how can "I" tell the difference between metal and lead? Test kit?

2. He said he had three things left to do on Little Willy, replace the windows: He spoke to Mark the window guy out in Corona, and the windows cost about $500 each. I’m not sure if this price includes a reinstall or just price for the window? What is cracked on the starboard side. and he says they do not leak.

3. That is great information about the fuel tanks if they are fiberglass, he had no clue that Willers came with fiberglass fuel tanks, but if they're Not should I walk away? Even if the surveyor okays them?

4. On that Perkins 4-236 engine photo, the elongated triangular back... I assume is the transmission- I'm assuming it was rebuilt too? Would I correct in that is the transmission on the Perkins?

5. How well does this vessel navigate close docking quarters? She's a single screw.

6. I'm meeting the owner on Sunday, any pointers? I used to be a home inspector I'm pretty knowledgeable on what to look for, but would love your point of view and input

Thank you, for your expertise, you truly educated me on looking further into this boat.
With deep respect,
Linda

Hi Linda - I sent a PM to you. Hopefully it goes through. Has my contact information.

These Willards all had concrete ballast with steel punchings and scrap mixed in. Lousy picture attached, but is the broken-up ballast out of my forward section that was removed when the thruster was installed. If you zoom in you'll see nuts and scrap metal. It was pretty hard to remove.

These boats have large rudders and handle decently in close quarters. That said, any single screw has a favored side due to prop walk.

Windows. Mark Plastics in Corona has made them since the early 1970s for Willard, and is SoCal's top replacement windows for all the California boats built in the 1970s and 1980s. Last I talked to Mark a couple months ago, he was trying to sell his business so while I paid $850/each (not installed, but they are pretty easy to install) for the four side windows, no gaurantee the price has not gone up. Center windshield is probably $400. The curved corner ones are the hard part. Mark had stopped offering to make them - he's a really nice guy and they took a very long time to fabricate and he just didn't want to charge what he had to charge for them. There are some DIY efforts on the Willard Boat Owner site, but best solution would be to spend some time in Ensenada and have the guys who did mine do the curved ones.

Should be a Borg Warner transmission. Model is likely listed in a recent survey. The seller would have purchased them together.

I'd say it's 75% likely this boat has Fiberglass tanks. If it has steel tanks? I don't know - 60-years is pretty old on a tank with deck-fills (water seeps down and rots the tank). If the owner has a survey he will share, it may list it. Surveyors will not do invasive inspections and the tanks may be clad in insulation. Personally, I would want to know. Fiberglass is good. Steel is acceptable, but more vulnerable. Tank replacement would be in the $15k range, and a deal killer.

Since you're a home inspector, you are likely pretty comfortable with recognizing concrete spawling. There will be a bit, but should just be surface. If you find yourself in the engine room, try turning the prop shaft. It will tight but should be moveable with some minor effort. If its not, likely engine needs alignment but needs to be tracked down during the formal survey.

I've attached a PDF with a Sea Trial checklist. Given your profession, you might find it helpful. My best thinking for your initial viewing though is to go aboard and get a feel for the boat. How does it smell? Does the layout work for you? What is the general condition? Has it been honestly represented? I wouldn't go too far down the purchase road on Day 1, rather return with a list (like the one attached here) and spend some time going through everything. If you're still excited, make an offer and start the train moving....

Best of luck - feel free to contact me with any questions.

Peter


View attachment SeaSkills Sea Trial Template.pdf

 

[Cold Duck]

Yeah, Peter has pretty much described it. Any single prop big boat without a thruster has prop walk in reverse. You have to plan on that when coming into a dock. The Willards are just cool. Hated to get rid of ours but had old people issues getting on/off the boat etc. Couldn't go anywhere with the Vega without comments. Now we just got another white plastic boat LOL. Willard does only military/commercial work now, but they may still have the documents from the trawler days. Worth checking out.

 

[Cold Duck]

Just looked at the pictures, the tranny is a Borg Warner Velvet Drive. I've had literally dozens of them, have one in my 26ft day cruiser with a 454, had the same in my Willard Vega, 400hp Jimmie diesels and my 41ft ketch we took to Panama and back. Hours and hours on them and only one failure in the ketch after 2 years and 5000 miles,many motoring/motorsailing. I lost reverse on it. I have had 2 damper plate failures but they easy to fix and replace without pulling engine or tranny. I went to rebuild the one in my 1976 daycruiser and they asked me why. I said it had lots of hours on it so while rebuilding the 454 thought I would do the tranny. They said if it's not leaking and fluid not burnt leave it alone. You would develop more problems fixing something that doesn't need fixing.

 

[Cold Duck]

Our Vega had steel tanks. When I bought her one tank had been replaced with SS. They either cut out the old tank or removed the engine to get it out and designed the SS tank smaller so it could be removed with engine in the boat. The other developed a leak but had a large inspection plate on top. There are some sealant systems for steel that coat the inside of the tank, multi component chemicals. I dud that and not had any issues while I had her. Since I have had an aluminum tank leak (see the thread on tank leak current). I found some stuff I swear by to repair diesel tanks, cheap $6.95 a tube Seal All at Ace hardware. I would not be hesitant with the steel tanks if they not leaking now. They can be fixed.

 

[mvweebles]

Our Vega had steel tanks. When I bought her one tank had been replaced with SS. They either cut out the old tank or removed the engine to get it out and designed the SS tank smaller so it could be removed with engine in the boat. The other developed a leak but had a large inspection plate on top. There are some sealant systems for steel that coat the inside of the tank, multi component chemicals. I dud that and not had any issues while I had her. Since I have had an aluminum tank leak (see the thread on tank leak current). I found some stuff I swear by to repair diesel tanks, cheap $6.95 a tube Seal All at Ace hardware. I would not be hesitant with the steel tanks if they not leaking now. They can be fixed.

Did you have a W36 or W30 with steel tanks? My 1972 W30 Searcher (Hull#5) had steel tanks. I think all the W30s had steel fuel and plastic water tanks.

Peter

 

[Cold Duck]

Sorry, I should have said it was the W30 with the steel tanks. It's a 1976

 

[Cold Duck]

And yes all the W30s I have come in contact with (4) have plastic water tanks.