Wintering in the water

[albin43]

So Ive been a liveaboard for 1 year now on the genesee river off lake Ontario. My first winter I built a metal frame using the kover klamps system but had shrinkwrap over it because I wasn't able to get the clear plastic tight enough to withstand the high winds we sometimes get off the lake. I installed a oil fired*boiler, same as a house would have which keeps the boat nice and warm. I never really thought a whole lot about snow load as the snow generally slid off the shrink wrap. My reason for building the tall metal frame and wrapping the boat was to remove the teak decks over the winter which I completed by spring. Now that the decks and windows are watertight and winter is almost here I come with the decision to wrap the boat... my thoughts were that last winter due to the deck job that would be the one and only winter I wrap the boat. that this year I would use clear plastic on the inside of the windows to stop any drafts. I have a few through hulls right above the water line on my boat (about 1" above) for sink drains, bilge pump outlets, sump pump outlets. All of which are froze open. there all bronze. So now im thinking without the shrink wrap the "shed" the snow I will have some snow buildup and possibly put a load on deck which could cause the through hulls above the waterline to go underwater and cause a problem while im at work. Id rather not shrinkwrap because its a cost I don't want. Also I dont like living in a bubble (last winter was white wrap)

rochester ny gets an avg of 95 inches of snowfall throughout the winter.

avg temps are 38 degrees*for the year but with winter temps average around 16 degrees.

obv the boat has no insulation and the walls usually measure about 10 degrees colder then the room temperature. how do I figure the R value of the boat on those numbers?

Im sure wraping the boat helps keep the cost of heating down but is it worth the money? I know I can do it myself but last November I had the local guys do it and they slammed me for $950. ouch I know but its the only boat in the water they did.

Id like to insulate*the boat but it would ruin the interior.. so I guess its just part of living aboard!

as for the though hulls, my plan is to haul the boat next spring, do a bottom job and replace them all when out of the water, I could haul now and replace them but im working with cold temps already and wouldnt be cost productive to haul twice.

any opinions you can share if you have or do liveaboard in a cold climate would be appreciated. My biggest fear obv is the boat sinking from snow load. I really didn't put a whole lot of thought into it last winter and got lucky i guess.

 

[skipperdude]

Here in Alaska Where I live. Last year We received 268" of snow.
It will sink a boat for sure.**Be sure to get one of those all plastic grain or snow shovels.
No metal edges.

I winter in the water every year. Salt water freezes at about 28 Deg.
My opinion is that the water in the boat doesn't seem to freeze below the waterline.

SD*

 

[RT Firefly]

Hiya,
Mr. albin43. I understand your concern but I think shrink wrapping is still your best bet. No concerns about snow load (as you mentioned) and easier to heat. I think the "R" value of your hull is probably close to 0. If you can do the job youself you will indeed save $$ and after wrapping you may be able to cut out "windows" and tape in clear plastic.
Let us know how it goes.

 

[jleonard]

Yes I would also stay with the shrink wrap.
BTW I bought my*40 Albin*on the Genesee River in late 05 and it spent winter 05/06 in a boatyard there. Viking was the name I think. Here's a pic I'm in the background somwhere.

 

[albin43]

yea jlenord, i winter right off the bow of the harbor town belle..
its voyager marina

im really leaning twords not shrink wrapping the boat, i know its not the best idea for heat and the boat but probably the best for my sanity


this is last spring

-- Edited by albin43 on Tuesday 2nd of November 2010 09:32:55 AM

 

[RickB]

I think I would heat shrink it too. It must have been uncomfortable enough sleeping on one of those hard seats but doing it under a layer of fresh snow really is going too far.

 

[albin43]

good one rickB

 

[Phil Fill]

We winter in the water in the Seattle area.* Being I ma cheap I use blue tarts, supported by 2 PBC plastic piper that is ducted tapped together and held down by bundy cores which are fastened to the hull with cup hoods which we have used for Christmas decorations also.* You an buy zippers for the enterance, and I duct tape clear plastic for windows so we can see out.* All of you canvas is 90% clear plastic.* So the whole thing shake rattles and rolls in the wind.* I use Tarp Grabbers which grip the traps very well as not one has failed.* I can get 2 to 3 years out of the traps which cost maybe 100 bucks in total.* This week end I put up the last years front deck tarp that took about 2 hours.* During Christmas and it we want to go out I can take down and up the tarp and frame work in about 1 hour.* The dark blue tarps do hold in the heat quite well especially on cold sunny days.* I also put Plex a glass over the windows to hold in the heat and cuts down the drafts which work quite well also.* ****The boat is about 90% covered with 3 separate tarps, except with the mast is.


When it does snow I get up every couple of hours and bang the snow off the tarps and canvas as some of the snow freezes to the tarp and does not slide off.* Takes*a couple on minutes but I have to get up to go the the bathroom*about 3:00 most morning anyway.* )-;*

 

[RT Firefly]

Hiya,
** Blue TARTS...hahahaha.* Is that instead of the regular pink tarts (working girls)?

 

[Phil Fill]

Hey, if they come in Pink I would probable use them.* Just look for the pink covered boat.* (-;***Would match my pink bunny slippers!**

They make some white ones that are thicker/heavier*and most expensive but the blue tends to absorb the sun light better.* Most cold winter days even when freezing*its warm under the tarps.*They also block/keep the cold wind rain off the boat and cut the drafts.*

I have thought about painting the Eagle a pearl pink/blue hue white that you see on some cars.* Sort of looks like when the water reflect of the boat.*

 

[RickB]

RT Firefly wrote:Blue TARTS...hahahaha.* Is that instead of the regular pink tarts ...?

If you dressed like a tart in Seattle in the Winter you would turn blue too.
*

 

[FF]

Biggest advantage to a frame and shrink wrap job is the many layers of clothes , yours and guests can be left outside .

Does increase space for "stuff" out of the weather.

Downside is the boat would be dead in the water , a marina fire might get your boat .

We used bathroom carpeting inside as insulation (fair ) but doesn't unravel , and can be easily machine washed a couple of times in the winter.

Solid glass hull is a really hard thing to stay warm inside , just grin and bear it and burn an extra gallon or two a day.

 

[RT Firefly]

Hiya,
** Mr. albin43.* Just thought of something else.* While putting plastic on the inside of the widows will stop THOSE drafts, there are probably dozens of other little nooks and crannies where the wind can whistle-in.* While the "tent" won't stop air infusion from said nooks and crannies, it should stop the whistling-in aspect.
* Or you could always hire a blue tart to keep you warm.

 

[RickB]

RT Firefly wrote:Or you could always hire a blue tart to keep you warm.

If she was any good at all she would turn pink. She would also chase the blues away and if the Winter was long enought might even become a sweet tart.

*

 

[albin43]

i dont think theres other areas for wind to whistle in or I would have leaks in those areas. not into the blue tarts or tarps.. as cheesey as this may sound Id like to have*the boat still look nice over the winter, i hate seeing sheds and tents and all sorts of garbage built onto boat for the winter.

-- Edited by albin43 on Tuesday 2nd of November 2010 12:52:27 PM

 

[jleonard]

Just make sure you are available to shovel off the snow load. And have a back up you can call in case something happens physically, like the flu, pulled back muscle, etc.
Those are additional reasons to consider the exterior cover.

 

[Nomad Willy]

The shrink wrap is good as long as the boat has been thoroughly "pickled". A good shrink wrap will have vents that will probably lower the humidity in ones boat. We had Willy shrink wrapped one year (down south) for $500 and it worked well but have kept it in the water since. We shoveled the boat AND the floats to insure they stayed floating about 3 years ago. See pic. The effect of the "warm" water on the hull is surprising even when it's ice. It dosn't take much (heat) to keep my boat from freezing especially when it's covered w snow on top and water underneath.


-- Edited by nomadwilly on Tuesday 2nd of November 2010 04:34:04 PM

 

[FF]

"We shoveled the boat "

Shoveling is a generic term usually a very stiff broom is the tool of choice for the least effort and hassles.

 

[Nomad Willy]

FF,
I feel I should do a Rick B on you Fred. You CAN"T move this wet snow*** ....with a broom!* No way no how.* All the snow in the aft cockpit must come out of (what amounts to)*** ..* a hole. Could'nt even do that w dry powdery snow. You've been in Florida too long.

 

[skipperdude]

I was going to say the same thing.

Try sweeping a couple of feet of snow. Se how far you get.

I think that it's Just me and you Eric.
Few places get snow like costal Alaska.
I've seen 4 ft fall overnight. It took an hour's shoveling just to get on the boat.
let alone getting the wet heavy stuff off the boat.

SD

-- Edited by skipperdude on Wednesday 3rd of November 2010 02:37:17 PM

 

[Gulf Comanche]

I vow to never bellyache about South Louisiana weather again. Even when its 104 in the shade.

 

[C lectric]

I'm not in SE Alaska, rather B.C. We don't often get much snow but when we do it's sticky and heavy. Shovel time, no brooms. And a plastic shovel so the darn stuff leaves when you toss it. I had it stick too many times to metal shovels including the tfe coated ones as the coating doesn't last all that long..


Albin 43
There is a fellow in our marina who shrink wraps his boat, lives aboard, but installed a standard exterior door and frame for entry and egress. He and several others reuse the snrink wrap each year for 5-6 yrs. Just that each year it gets taped up more.
He too has been redoing decks each year. (CHB 34)

We don't get as cold or as much snow but it might be worth considering the door and frame.

 

[skipperdude]

C lectric wrote:

*a plastic shovel so the darn stuff leaves when you toss it

Also plastic so you don't*chip the heck out of your gell coat.

SD

*

 

[FF]

snow in the aft cockpit must come out of (what amounts to) .. a hole

Different strokes I guess , A few NYC winters aboard a 45 x 24 Wide Tri the snow was happily left on deck. Snow is a really good insulator .

It was interesting the first year aboard* the snow would melt off the deck and the 2x roof beams would show their pattern.

After a winter the overhead was insulated only with 3/4 in sound quieting 2ft by 4 ft insulation trimmed and** placed in between the beams and held in by varnished battens.

Then the beam pattern showed as melted , the rest of the cabin top stayed snow.

On our 90/90 sail ,there is a deck cockpit , between built in deck boxes , but it is at deck level.

No lifting , just a broom did the deed.

Fwd the snow was not touched as it is insulation .

When it melted it ran off.

-- Edited by FF on Thursday 4th of November 2010 01:28:44 PM

 

[skipperdude]

Gulf Comanche wrote:

I vow to never bellyache about South Louisiana weather again. Even when its 104 in the shade.

When it is cold and you have to go out you just put on more clothes*or *stay indoors.
*
When it is hot you can't take off enough clothes to stay cool.

What do you do. Stay indoors?

I had to crawl into my commercial oven once at about 100 deg.
Thought I was going to die.
How do you boy's in the south survive?

SD*

*


-- Edited by skipperdude on Friday 5th of November 2010 08:02:46 AM

 

[FF]

How do you boy's in the south survive?

Breeding

#2 Choice , Snowbird

 

[Gulf Comanche]

Swimming pool and Crown & water in the afternoon helps.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Breeding

That why you've got so many people down there?

All the animals do it.

Who wants to have sex when it's 100 drgrees?

Count me out.

 

[FF]

"That why you've got so many people down there?"

You have to be kidding , when we look off our East porch there are no lights visible.

Sure there is a town 14 miles away , but its too tiny to create a loom.

"Who wants to have sex when it's 100 drgrees?"

Up north folks respond to "whats your sign" with zodiac responses.

"Slippery when WET " is the southern response .

-- Edited by FF on Saturday 6th of November 2010 04:26:25 AM

 

[skipperdude]

FF wrote:


Up north folks respond to "whats your sign" with zodiac responses.

"Slippery when WET " is the southern response .

-- Edited by FF on Saturday 6th of November 2010 04:26:25 AM

FF, My*man that is a good one. really cracked me up.

May I use it?

SD

*