Your Thoughts- Lehman 120s

[Gmarr]

I’m looking at a boat with twin 120s- while she looks very clean (a pilot owner perhaps?) I feel something is outdated in this photo and I can’t put my finger on it. I’d be moving from gassers to diesel- so any comments are valued. I do know to get an engine, including oil survey.

Missing Racors, or are what I also see just an old fashioned version?

Thanks all.

 

[Brisyboy]

I’m looking at a boat with twin 120s- while she looks very clean (a pilot owner perhaps?) I feel something is outdated in this photo and I can’t put my finger on it. I’d be moving from gassers to diesel- so any comments are valued. I do know to get an engine, including oil survey.

Missing Racors, or are what I also see just an old fashioned version?View attachment 73311View attachment 73312

Thanks all.

What you are looking at are two old school, no electronics, no turbo workhorses (perhaps they are the things that seem to be missing - my guess is they are in an Island Gypsy due to the tank valving and the location of the primary fuel filters).

Rather than being alarmed, rejoice in the simplicity of the engines and the fact that they both look to be well loved. (but don`t forget the oil sample etc etc

 

[SoWhat]

Looks like original 100% stock IG installation. Port expansion tank replaced at one point but that's normal. It still has the original fuel filter installation. Nothing wrong with it but Racor's are easier to deal with and the filters are cheaper.

I would pull the zinc out of the heat exchanger located above the transmission and check it's condition. Suspect owner changed it yearly from the looks of the ER.

Probably has 2 velvet drive CR2 transmissions. Pull the end plate off the control valve and make sure it's clean and not full of brown sludge. Sludge would indicate a clutch/seal rebuild and cleaning. Not an indication of a major rebuild.

Fuel tank corrosion can be an expensive issue. make sure there are no signs of rust or external corrosion.

Lehman's are simple reliable engines with parts readily available. Same with CR2's.

 

[BruceK]

Fairly sure that`s an Island Gypsy.
Mine had those filters, with checker plate cutouts to drop the cylinders containing the replaceable elements. There is no way to drain off any water or filtered debris on a regular basis. It`s an outdated impractical system.
I replaced mine with smaller Racors and suggest you factor in doing something similar. Lehman 120s don`t need huge filters, I`ve read on TF that unlike some engines,they don`t filter and return large amounts of fuel over and above the modest quantity they consume.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. G. I'm by no means an engine expert but we DO have 2 of these babies ourselves. From memory, nothing out of the ordinary jumps out as odd. There are no signs of a "paint tune-up" (slop or spray paint over the rust spots) and they appear fairly clean.

Racor filters are normally mounted remotely from the engine so previous owner(s) may have opted not to install them but the original, stock CAV filters are right where they should be (both have WIX filter elements).

The expansion tank on the port engine is unpainted and may be a replacement. Might be able to find out what the story is there. I also notice the expansion tank(s) have the aftermarket coolant recovery tank(s).

What may appear dated is whatever is on the forward bulkhead. Other than what seems to be a fuel management system I have no idea what the stuff above it is. An awful lot of heavy gauge wiring coming from? and going to? Neatly done in any case.

Seems to be an honest presentation.

 

[Airstream345]

I think you're right; original spin-on primaries and the old school outdoor faucet style valves give off a dated appearance. Likely all functional but older tech so you may consider a plan to upgrade some fuel system components if you move forward. Given the manifold setup you might also consider a polisher/transfer pump. Our boat came with a similar setup (and in similar condition...the former owner was an engineer) and an upgrade is on "the list".

I also agree on the 0 AWG wiring. That's a lot of power capacity and well installed.

As SoWhat said already; Lehman 120's are pretty much a low-tech workhorse and well cared have a reputation for reliability that could outlast your ownership.

Good luck and keep us posted!

 

[Airstream345]

It also appears the port engine raw water pump has the newer/upgraded Jabsco pump, which is good. Check the starboard engine for the same pump.

 

[Gmarr]

Here is another photo of the port engine at a slightly different angle. The transmissions were replaced in 2006- I am unsure what they are. I’ve only “met” this boat remotely this far.

There is a generator as well as bow and stern thrusters, autopilot too, might that be what the fancy wiring is for? Not much else in electronics beyond the standard.

And yes- is an IG 36 Quad Cabin that got me intrigued....Bruce it was actually many of your comments on the IG pages that kept my interest in it- while an import- more seem happy with them on the front end versus all the other first comments one hears about the MTs CHBs etc

 

[BruceK]

The heavy cabling goes to the horizontal black box which has the main switches for the 2 main engines and genset. I leave them on. Are the start buttons at the helm keyed, probably not.
It looks like you have an updated battery charger, it`s just above said black box.
You have coolant overflow bottles fitted,the American Diesel kit includes mods to the overflow tank.
The stbd alternator looks like an updated one,?the port one.
Apart from those old style primary fuel filters which I`d replace instantly if I owned it, it looks well maintained. The quality of wiring is representative of the general build quality which was modeled on GB. They are not another "Taiwanese Tub",though the hulls were built in mainland China, as early as 1980,and finished in HK. Acquiring one with Lehmans is a big plus imo.
A serious concern can be hull osmosis. The hulls are thick and solid, 3/4"+. However osmosis is common, check for it. Repairing blisters does not mean it cannot recur. Blisters vary from large and sporadic, to small ones all over.
Good luck with it,I hope I have not led you astray. Do you know the year it was built,and the hull number? Mine is hull #39, built 1981 I think.

 

[Gmarr]

Thanks for the additional info! It’s model year 1982. The broker sent several additional photos to disclose cosmetic issues. One would hope that he would have included any Hull/osmosis issues. He did say that the owner “believes” that the decks are fiberglass beneath the teak- I said probably not based on what all my fellow TFers have said. I’m intrigued still...

 

[BruceK]

There is a fair chance the sandwich below the teak consists of a top and bottom f/g layers with foam in between. Foam core does not rot, teak core does. You may get a look at the core at the aft lazarette surrounding edges. Unless the teak has been renewed I would expect it, the caulking, and plugs, to be tired after 36 years
I suggest expressly asking whether it has osmosis or has had osmosis repairs. Being underwater it`s not easily photographed. Your best view of it, if it exists, is immediately after haulout.
If the rest of the boat is as well kept as the ER looks, it is worth pursuing.

 

[Gmarr]

Hi jacking my own thread- here are some other pics of external cosmetics

Nice thing is that she’s currently on the hard In heated winter storage which she has been for at least 10 years during winters.

 

[BruceK]

The decks look tired.Caulk needs work in places and there are missing screw plugs,probably because the teak is worn and a plug won`t stay in due to insufficient depth of wood. Check for water entry damage inside at deck level.
Check the timber windows,the side ones looked flush, like metal replacements, hard to say.Timber windows rot,they need paint kept up to them.
Looks like there has been work/repaint to the "eyebrow" area over the windscreen,the timber joints can "smile", water gets in,good if it is maintained there. Those windows are well protected.
The varnish on the aft cappings is superficial, from what I can see the teak looks ok.
What is that metal thing at the front of the FB? I`ve got one. For a searchlight? To secure life rings?

 

[Gmarr]

Broker told me that most windows had been replaced and that there was one left that could use it.

Gotcha on the decking- my same question since there were screw heads almost flush with the top. I want to get there to see if they would let me take a couple out and probe....

Not sure on that metal pipe above the windows- an old radar support?

My other curiosity is about the mast, height and how to lower to take it down the Illinois river with it’s one 19foot fixed bridge. Oh, I’m on the lake in Chicago and the boat is in Lake Superior.....

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. G. Intriguing. The exterior teak is in need of attention but appears to be sound and well fastened thus worth refinishing. The teak decking, on the other hand, is another matter. From the depth of the visible screw heads (some appear flush with the surface), the deck is quite worn.

I am unfamiliar with the construction of IG's BUT if they are akin to other Asian builds, there's a pretty good chance you've got wet deck coring. The heated winter storage is a nice touch in that it eliminates a good chunk of a year out in the elements but I doubt any drying of the potentially wet core would occur.

IF there is a next boat, teak decks are fairly high on my "would really like to have" list.

 

[BruceK]

The mast is fixed. According to the Manual boat height is 16ft 6", but I `d be checking. People I know with a GB52 cut and hinged(and hydraulically powered) their mast at half height,for bridge clearance.
If the deck core is foam,it shouldn`t be wet. But if it is wood...I had 2 square sections of wood core just fwd of the step up to the bow,both soft wet and black, replaced with foam as part of an expensive full deck renovation.

 

[Gmarr]

Wow looks taller than that.

It also needs a windlass and the support structure for one I gather. Not sure how many “expensive” projects I want lol. I guess the decks could be done over time....

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. G. "Not sure how many “expensive” projects I want". That's thought crosses my mind every time I see boat pictures...
Depending on price and what a good survey finds, the boat appears to be relatively usable as is, with minimal "band-aids" necessary, in the short term, to get you on the water.
By minimal "band-aids" I mean rather than strip and refinish your exterior teak right away, for example, sand off the really loose coating and slap some sort of Cetol/varnish finish over the bare spots to halt any more degradation until such time you have the time and WANT to refinish same.
For the decks, re-caulk the really loose stuff and defer the rest. If you've already got teak gumbo under there, a year or two won't make it much worse. (JUST my opinion).
That's what I can see from the pictures. Without a personal visit AND a survey, it's all moot BUT, again, depending on price, she DOES look interesting...

 

[SoWhat]

It also needs a windlass and the support structure for one I gather. Not sure how many “expensive” projects I want lol. I guess the decks could be done over time

Anchor can be raised by hand. Or pay for a slip when traveling.
Boat will probably need a complete electronics upgrade. VHF, GPS, etc. Robertson autopilot is worth keeping.

Nice looking boat but decks and fuel tanks need closer inspection.
Add up the estimates and then discount the offer price accordingly.

 

[Comodave]

Old boats usually need quite a bit of work, but personally I love working on my boat. The Lehmans are probably the last thing you will have trouble with if they have been maintained at all. They just run and run. They are low tech. Get them started, feed them clean fuel and change the oil and they are good to go.

 

[FF]

"He did say that the owner “believes” that the decks are fiberglass beneath the teak- I said probably not based on what all my fellow TFers have said."

Many TT were glass decked with a thin layer of glass over house plywood.

The dealer would "up sell" to a teak covering option if he could.

"By minimal "band-aids" I mean rather than strip and refinish your exterior teak right away, for example, sand off the really loose coating and slap some sort of Cetol/varnish finish over the bare spots to halt any more degradation until such time you have the time and WANT to refinish same."


The problem is shmeering on something may not make the many screws in the deck water tight.

Water running down screws will eventually cause dry rot , requiring lots of rebuilding.

IF the deck structure still seems sound , scraping off the teak overlay , filling the screw holes , and reglassing with epoxy would be a good start.

Lots of work , but low skill level , and low cost, not like rebuilding a soggy deck.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. FF. Perhaps you misunderstood. I suppose I wasn't clear enough. The "schmeering" would be on the hand and cap rails ONLY, to seal the bare wood there. NOT on the deck at all. The deck is another matter.

 

[Gmarr]

The deck is worrisome for sure. I’d need to really ascertain its issues, “hope” it’s foam core vs wood as some have found and come up with a plan.
What are thoughts about leaving the fly ridge and top of the aft cabin intact...are they often as bad as the main decks seem to get?

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. G. Whoa! How bad IS this boat? As I suggested in post#18, before you can do much else you have to see this boat in person and somewhere down the line, have a good survey done. Any advice you get, including my own, is worth pretty much what you're paying for it.

Do NOT rely on pictures, the word of the broker, your TF family, your OWN family or someone you know who's brother who had exactly that model 10 years ago. AND!!! (the BIG one) DO NOT BECOME EMOTIONALLY INVOLVED!!! Apologies for yelling.

 

[Gmarr]

Oh no worries! More talking out loud than me pulling triggers remotely! Actually this forum has made me more able to be less emotional as I know I have a cadre of people here that really really know their stuff in order to better filter what one hears from the broker.

 

[jjorgenson3]

Fixing the Fordeck as we speak

 

[jjorgenson3]

Looking good

 

[BruceK]

..What are thoughts about leaving the fly bridge and top of the aft cabin intact...are they often as bad as the main decks seem to get?

Simple answer, yes. When I bought my boat the back half of the FB had been "deteaked"and redone in painted nonslip, so I guess it was worse than the lower decks, earlier.The fwd half has the bimini plus a "tonneau" type cover(one for the sports car enthusiasts). My side decks and cockpit are largely covered,yours are likely not,so more exposed. My worst area was the bow.
If water gets through the decks via the screws etc, it can affect the tops of the tanks,and travel across the deck affecting the house and inside.
We don`t want to be scaring you too much, if it`s not too far, go and look. They are nice boats, well built,comfortable,good electrics, and in this case (and mine) good twin engines. Some later ones had Volvos,200-250hp each. You could ask the broker to look at the deck sandwich and supply a pic, point him to the aft lazarette. He seems upfront enough with pics.

 

[KEVMAR]

Have a engine and yacht survey done

 

[Gmarr]

Someone else bought it