Considering Moving "Slow Hand" to the Great Lakes

[O C Diver]

So things will be changing in 2024. The Wife will be retiring in August. My cruising will have to be modified (Happy wife = Happy life). This summer I can again leave in April and return in November. But in 2024 if I still want to spend summers in the Great Lakes, I'll need to make some changes.

So what I'm considering is wintering the boat in a familiar location in NY and then cruising the boat in the Great Lakes during the summer. This would shave 3 to 4 months a year off my cruising season (taking the boat back and forth from Fort Myers to the Great Lakes). This would also significantly reduce maintenance as the boat would spend 7 to 8 months per year in a heated building and cruise in fresh water exclusively.

If I choose to do this, it will likely start this coming fall, so I'll need to make a decision soon. I have a few locations under consideration, talked to my insurance provider and discussed it with the better half. What am I missing?

Ted

 

[rslifkin]

There's certainly plenty of great cruising up north. On the lower lakes, you generally have good cruising from mid to late April through mid to late October, so even if you took a few weeks off mid summer you'd get plenty of opportunity to use the boat. And it's generally a fairly inexpensive place to cruise.

There are also plenty of good places to keep a boat around the great lakes. And many options for indoor storage with a somewhat smaller number of heated options. Depending on exactly where, some of the indoor unheated options are surprisingly inexpensive too. I haven't done heated storage, but we've been doing indoor storage at the yard where our normal summer slip is. Not having to cover the boat, etc. is a big benefit even though we still have to winterize.

 

[SteveK]

What am I missing?

What do you do with the boat in Florida, will you miss that?

 

[O C Diver]

What do you do with the boat in Florida, will you miss that?

I usually do a trip to Fort Pierce for the TF rendezvous and a trip to Tarpon Springs. Will probably miss the trips up and down the the AICW more.

Ted

 

[SteveK]

I usually do a trip to Fort Pierce for the TF rendezvous and a trip to Tarpon Springs. Will probably miss the trips up and down the the AICW more.

Ted

You will be OK staying up north. The plan is reversible as soon as 2025.

 

[IRENE]

…and you could always add a smaller boat to the inventory to run around FL or ICW trips.

 

[Shrew]

This is what we do 5-6 months in New England on the boat for the summer. Then 6-7 months in Florida in the house for the winter. This is our second winter with a 13 foot Boston Whaler that we tow between New England and FLorida. In New England it's the dinghy. In Florida it's the day on on the ICW.

We're seriously considering a 21 ft center console for the Florida day boat.

The big boat lives in New England all year. We haul and shrink wrap it for the winter.

 

[twistedtree]

Have you winterized or generally laid up the boat before? That’s the only issues I see. Even with inside storage you might want to protect against freezing. And even without freeze protection there will be a bunch of stuff you will need to. But you may already have this down pat.

 

[Pete Meisinger]

Heated storage for a 45 foot boat will be very hard to find and very expensive.

Just for example on my 36 footer: Outside storage is around $1,500, Inside storage is around double that ($2,500), Inside heated storage will be double again, around $5,000.

pete

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. OC. To the best of my very poor memory, I think Brewerton Marina just off Oneida Lake offers heated indoor storage. Not RIGHT on the great lakes but close. No idea of $$...

 

[rslifkin]

Greetings,
Mr. OC. To the best of my very poor memory, I think Brewerton Marina just off Oneida Lake offers heated indoor storage. Not RIGHT on the great lakes but close. No idea of $$...

Winter Harbor in Brewerton is generally my first thought when heated storage is mentioned. It's about a 7-8 hour run from there to Oswego and Lake Ontario, so plenty close to the Great Lakes.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

If you are diligent and plan ahead, there is enough heated indoor storage in western Lake Erie to get what you want.

 

[O C Diver]

Winter Harbor in Brewerton is generally my first thought when heated storage is mentioned. It's about a 7-8 hour run from there to Oswego and Lake Ontario, so plenty close to the Great Lakes.

They're at the top of the list. 6 to $7K for next winter with likely space available. Good access to Lake Erie (Erie Canal West), Lake Ontario (Oswego Canal), and Lake Champlain (Erie Canal East). Have stopped there for fuel a couple of times.

Ted

 

[O C Diver]

Have you winterized or generally laid up the boat before? That’s the only issues I see. Even with inside storage you might want to protect against freezing. And even without freeze protection there will be a bunch of stuff you will need to. But you may already have this down pat.

The places I'm considering have heated buildings with redundant heating systems and standby generators.

Yes, lots of planning for winter storage. Will have to decide what goes back to Florida or how extensive spring cleaning will need to be.

Ted

 

[rslifkin]

They're at the top of the list. 6 to $7K for next winter with likely space available. Good access to Lake Erie (Erie Canal West), Lake Ontario (Oswego Canal), and Lake Champlain (Erie Canal East). Have stopped there for fuel a couple of times.

Ted

For comparison, indoor unheated storage where we are in Rochester would be about $3700 at this year's prices for a 45 footer (plus a few hundred dollars worth of winterizing supplies). And some other places are a bit cheaper.

As far as unloading for winter, we generally remove anything that can be damaged by freezing and anything that we'll want to wash before the next season (could also stay aboard and be washed in the spring). Then winterize, a few bags of damprid, and prep the boat to be unplugged from power for a while.

 

[O C Diver]

Have been doing some research on boat registration. NY state documents are not crystal clear. What I know is:

If I have to get a registration sticker in NY, the use tax is capped at a value of $230,000. In addition, they credit me for the percentage paid (not the amount) in FL. So, if I need to pay the use tax, it would be $4,600 (NY 8% - FL 6%).

Where the questionable part comes in is "Use". The NY state document says the tax is triggered (for an out of state resident on an out of state registered vessel) after "90 days of consecutive use". Now I would expect that to mean "if you had the ability to use it (sitting in a boat slip)". I'm wondering if things like in a winter storage building don't count. As a reference, when my boat spent 20 months in Maryland during the refit, that was considered an acceptable exemption and I didn't have to pay use tax. Will call NY state after they finish shoveling out from the blizzard to see what "Use" means.

Ted

 

[rslifkin]

My understanding is that NY wants the boat registered there if it's in state waters for 90 days. I expect winter storage doesn't count. That said, if you do end up registering in NY, other than the initial sales tax, it's cheap. Something like $94 for registration and it's good for 3 years before renewal.

 

[O C Diver]

For comparison, indoor unheated storage where we are in Rochester would be about $3700 at this year's prices for a 45 footer (plus a few hundred dollars worth of winterizing supplies). And some other places are a bit cheaper.

As far as unloading for winter, we generally remove anything that can be damaged by freezing and anything that we'll want to wash before the next season (could also stay aboard and be washed in the spring). Then winterize, a few bags of damprid, and prep the boat to be unplugged from power for a while.

Think I'll go for heated storage. My boat is 50' LOA. When I get up there in May, I don't want any surprises that could take weeks + to fix.

My understanding is that NY wants the boat registered there if it's in state waters for 90 days. I expect winter storage doesn't count. That said, if you do end up registering in NY, other than the initial sales tax, it's cheap. Something like $94 for registration and it's good for 3 years before renewal.

It will be interesting to see what the state says. There seem to be a fair number of Great Lakes cruisers who winter in NY and other states but haven't changed their registration. Once back in the water, a few days to a month gets you out of NY.

Ted

 

[Bacchus]

Ted
Look up and check out NY DMV Form DTF-803
If you were an out of (NY) state resident at time of purchase I believe you are exempt from paying taxes in NY.
Also Winter Hbr is well regarded by folks I've talked to. No idea what the economics are but folks are pleased.

 

[Jeff F]

You could ask the yard. I suspect that lots of the boats they store have out of state registration. They'd know if their customers are being chased for state tax/registration. I doubt that they are.

In general I think a valid Florida registration supports a transient claim anywhere on the great lakes, and on a boat like yours indicates that you're not a tax avoider. Nobody is going to put any effort into collecting their slice of the excess on FL tax paid.

Brewerton seems like a great spot for the first winter. I'm not sure I'd want to stay there forever, but you can scope out other options during this year's cruise.

 

[O C Diver]

Ted
Look up and check out NY DMV Form DTF-803
If you were an out of (NY) state resident at time of purchase I believe you are exempt from paying taxes in NY.

Ok, so I looked at the form and did some searching. I may be exempt, but need to get answers before filling out the form. Don't want to be on their radar until I have the answers.

Thanks!

Ted

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. OC. Keep your AIS off in case there are any whales about.

 

[O C Diver]

You could ask the yard. I suspect that lots of the boats they store have out of state registration. They'd know if their customers are being chased for state tax/registration. I doubt that they are.

I did ask the yard and other boaters. Nobody worries about it. I don't work that way. Many people don't worry about driving after a few drinks, until there are red lights flashing behind them. Need to know the penalty before breaking the law.

Ted

 

[O C Diver]

Greetings,
Mr. OC. Keep your AIS off in case there are any whales about.

IMO, boats displaying AIS are less suspect than those trying to fly below the radar.

Ted

 

[Bacchus]

Ted
Agree need to confirm ahead of time. Just wanted to point out my impression that seems to be consistent with the form that previous ownership & registration of those living out of state precludes the need to pay sales tax... that is meant for residents purchasing out of state and bringing a boat into NY.

 

[Kurplunk]

Greetings,
Mr. OC. To the best of my very poor memory, I think Brewerton Marina just off Oneida Lake offers heated indoor storage. Not RIGHT on the great lakes but close. No idea of $$...

Choose wisely, Brewerton is a great place with good services and inexpensive fuel. BUT, your boating season is controlled not only by Nature's seasons, but also the whims of the NY Throughway Athuority who now oversee the NY canal system.

 

[timb7734]

We have cruised the Great Lakes for 50 years, still keep a boat on northern Lake Huron. Stored in heated space during winter, but still drain all lines that may freeze, still, have had no trouble since I stopped doing the work myself and got a busted toilet for a prize. The season is short, but the cruising fabulous between the anchorages and little villages of the norther Great Lakes. Join the Great Lakes Cruising Club for the princely sum of about $120 per year, and learn all there is to know!

 

[rslifkin]

Choose wisely, Brewerton is a great place with good services and inexpensive fuel. BUT, your boating season is controlled not only by Nature's seasons, but also the whims of the NY Throughway Athuority who now oversee the NY canal system.

Good point, being on the canals does force a somewhat later start to the season than being elsewhere on the lower lakes would allow. The NY Canal Corp was transferred to the NY Power Authority a few years ago, but I don't think it's made much difference operationally compared to when the Thruway Authority was in charge.

 

[mickand]

Ted, +1 for Winter Harbor. They painted my hull back in 2015 for an amazing price and
I've been back every year since bar one. I've observed them close up over probably a few weeks total and I haven't seen a more professional outfit. You will be at the mercy of the canal opening times, but it's cold up there before and beyond the dates they open/close.

 

[Jeff F]

Good point, being on the canals does force a somewhat later start to the season than being elsewhere on the lower lakes would allow. The NY Canal Corp was transferred to the NY Power Authority a few years ago, but I don't think it's made much difference operationally compared to when the Thruway Authority was in charge.

It also forces an early departure from the prime northern cruising areas. For me that would be motivation to find a yard in MI or WI. Maybe only stay in one area for a season or two

I've stored my boats far from home a few times. There are always other considerations like ease of travel back and forth, maybe vehicle storage, the ability for DIY, sleeping aboard etc. I hauled Mazurka for a season in Kingston NY in part because there was good train service to and from my dirt home and the yard. Maybe proximity to a major airport matters. Or cost. There are always tradeoffs and individual considerations.