Cruiser instead of Trawler?

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I our case we planned to search for a bigger boat for stay on it and not to extended trips. we made a list of the space we want to have, large master head, big shower or a real bath a spare bed room, a small work room, a storage room, good kitchen, lot of closets good saloon with big windows, a good or large afterdeck if possible wit a fix our canvas sun shading, 2 engine, generator, space for solar panels.

We took the time and look for the a 3G boat
in Dutch Goed = good, Geen werk = no work, Goedkoop = small price
we found different boats but no 3G boats :)

we visit our boat more to look then purchace it. We spoke with the broker and he told is it was on sale due to a broken relation, in Europe the mooring cost was pritty high and the boat had a big couple of engines. we made a proposition for the sale and thy agree

as we have no plans of moving very far the fuel cost is aceptable, out trips are planed for the range of 2 fill ups yearly the boat is from 1990 but maintened from the building firm (it was a company boat) so it was in better shape of recent boats we visit. I have changed the battery set, installed a invertor a good housebank and solar panel i have removed the water maker (water is cheap here) and i placed a good new central heater unit; my advice dont go for a smaler boat then you dream of, take the time

our boat was not so expencif due the big motors and the mooring cost
 
One thing we have noticed, is while the sportfish models have the large cockpit we want, most of them don't have any swim platforms.

Does anyone know if a swim platform could be added? and what the approximate cost would be?

Or if there is a specfic year/model of a sportfish style that has a swim platform already?
 
A swim platform could certainly be added. They are not typical on a sport fish because they would interfere with landing a fish - SF boats often have a transom gate to drag fish aboard.

I'd imagine it would be easy to underestimate the expense of adding a swim platform. They look fairly small when attached to a boat but are quite large and heavy when viewed on the ground. The supporting brackets are substantial.

I've never noticed before, but perhaps a swim platform is more common on boats marketed as "convertibles?"

Peter
 
Sharked said:
Does anyone know if a swim platform could be added? and what the approximate cost would be?

Or if there is a specfic year/model of a sportfish style that has a swim platform already?
Click to expand...

Yes, can be added. A few companies specialize. Even hydraulic lift platforms can be added, as for dinghy lift/deploy/recover, although at much greater expense.

The Silverton Convertibles all had swim platforms. Prob'ly other brands, too. Might have been an option on most sportfisher brands, just few ordered that way.

Note that boats called "sedan bridge" or "sport bridge" or similar are often much like sportfishers/convertibles in many design elements. The biggest difference is that usually that the bridges are larger and extend back further over the cockpit, and the helm station is forward on the bridge instead of aft. Sacrifices some aft visibility, but then that's often solved in some other way.

-Chris
 
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A dive platform is also a safety devise. Fall overboard on most boats and there is no way to get back on without one. One thing to consider when building one is the uplift pressure from rear wave action. It can be considerable and is the reason most are slotted.
 
TBill36 said:
A dive platform is also a safety devise. Fall overboard on most boats and there is no way to get back on without one. One thing to consider when building one is the uplift pressure from rear wave action. It can be considerable and is the reason most are slotted.
Click to expand...


That upward pressure is also why many factory platforms (party boats excluded) are fairly short and often elevated 8 - 12" above the water as well.
 
Sharked said:
Do you think a semi-displacement type boat would be suitable at all for a liveaboard in the Bahamas? (Operating at trawler speeds though, 6-8knots)
Click to expand...

Back to your initial post. The ultimate question is what is a cruiser and what defines a trawler? Just because a boat is slow does not make it a "trawler."

It truly is a lifestyle and marketing question. In reading the posts it seems very few trawler owners opined let alone very few TF members own trawlers (whatever those are).

Spend a week walking the docks in FL,NY, WA or CA and dollars to donuts you'll find a very small %age of the boats are "trawlers."
 
The 500 and 501 Constellations are definitely solid boats. Personally I like the look of the 500 better, but the 501 is a little more updated and has a bit more space inside. They do all have Detroit 6V92TAs for power unfortunately, and I've never seen a repowered one.
 
The listing is rather light on the details of the project.

Are those DDs 550hp each? or in total?
 
Likewise, I have no connection with this boat but it just came up on boat trader. I happened to hear about it because it is a sister ship to mine and also in my neighborhood. It appears to be in excellent condition, ready to go cruising. This floor plan and hull design works very well for us (two people, two dogs) as a part time liveaboard. We cruise for up to three months at a time with a dirt home to store all of our “family stuff.”

https://www.boattrader.com/boat/2002-silverton-42-convertible-9183874/
 
sunchaser said:
It is being marketed as and sold as a project boat. Plus a pair of very big DDs.
Click to expand...

Yessir, it does claim to be mechanically up to date on maintenance on the mains and gen. Being marketed as a project boat is a way of saying as is where is, and it is a liquidation company selling it. The engines wouldn't be my preferred choice but could work with them.
 
sunchaser said:
Back to your initial post. The ultimate question is what is a cruiser and what defines a trawler? Just because a boat is slow does not make it a "trawler."

It truly is a lifestyle and marketing question. In reading the posts it seems very few trawler owners opined let alone very few TF members own trawlers (whatever those are).

Spend a week walking the docks in FL,NY, WA or CA and dollars to donuts you'll find a very small %age of the boats are "trawlers."
Click to expand...

Yeah, I wish I could spend a week dock walking, but not something I can do right now, so trying to do as much research as I can via Internet in order to short list a few brands/models.

There is no doubt in my mind that the trawlers like: Nordhavn, Fleming, Selene, Marlow, KaddyKrogen, TollyCraft, Defever, GrandBanks, are all very seaworthy & suitable for liveabaord. Problem is with their prices, It seems to be a seller's market now and prices are much higher then even just a few years ago, while the same boats keep getting older.

So that lead me to research other options, such as cruisers & sportfish, from what I can see there doesn't seem to be many people living on a sportfish, or at least not making youtube videos about. While I can find a 45ft Meridian for under $200K for example, is it suitable as a home on the ocean for 6 months? or is it designed more for weekends away?

I am sure there are lots of people in California or Florida living on their boats such as Meridian, Searay, Cruisers Yachts, etc in marina's I am not sure it would be suitable for living on anchor in the Bahamas.

Lately I have been looking on here, at what boats people have in their profile descriptions to try and make a list.
 
PPandE said:
Likewise, I have no connection with this boat but it just came up on boat trader. I happened to hear about it because it is a sister ship to mine and also in my neighborhood. It appears to be in excellent condition, ready to go cruising. This floor plan and hull design works very well for us (two people, two dogs) as a part time liveaboard. We cruise for up to three months at a time with a dirt home to store all of our “family stuff.”

https://www.boattrader.com/boat/2002-silverton-42-convertible-9183874/
Click to expand...

This boat looks very nice, looks to have been updated, and newer electronics as well. I am not familiar with Silvertons though & never seen one in person, how do they handle on the ocean?
 
That Silverton looks immaculate, to me. One of the best engine rooms I've seen in a while.

The only thing that would concern me (in our area) is the exposed props and rudders. As well, no keel, so you'd be on the wheel crossing a bar in a following sea, but you've got the power if needed. The interior is very live-aboardable, in my view. You'd have to satisfy yourself as to whether the refrigeration was sufficient for your needs. If it were me, I'd be having a look ASAP.

Re adding a swim platform (not talking about the Silverton), consider getting one that hinges, and folds up. That way you can design it closer to the water, and save money in a marina. We have a line attached to a pull-down ladder on our fixed platform, and I have had to use it—works perfectly and a great safety addition.
 
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Sharked said:
This boat looks very nice, looks to have been updated, and newer electronics as well. I am not familiar with Silvertons though & never seen one in person, how do they handle on the ocean?
Click to expand...

I’ve had mine for almost three years now and can say that I’d feel safe in more seas than I’d want to endure. That’s the thing about sport fishers, they are built for people who will go fishing when they shouldn’t. They don’t have nearly the range of a trawler because they assume that after a day of fishing it will be docked next to a fuel dock. Mine carries 500 gal of fuel which will take it about 200nm until empty at 20kts. About 1500nm at 7kts. In the Bahamas you can’t get more than 100 miles from a fuel dock.

Having said that it ain’t no Hatteras and for sure isn’t a Nordhaven. But in 20+years of plying south Florida and the Bahamas I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve taxed the people on board. And I’ve never challenged the boats. Weather doesn’t sneak up on us anymore, just don’t plan to leave at the last minute to catch that flight.
 
A word about cruising the Bahamas with a 4’ draft.

First, I try very hard to never travel at night unless I’m going someplace I know well. Nothing over there is reliably marked and the sands shift like the Sahara in a scirocco. Fortunately, it’s as if the bottom is color coded. In good light you can look at the water and tell exactly how deep it is.

Second, there are very good private charts available like the Explorer Charts with very accurate routes and approaches marked. Back in the day Stephen pavlidis developed his own charts of all the anchorages and published them in his “Beaten Path” series of cruising guides. Point being that the area is so popular for cruisers that there are very detailed charts available.

Lastly, there are any number of other cruisers and locals alike that are more than happy to pilot you in if you get caught out at night or in poor visibility.

I’ve touched bottom more in the new river of ft lauderdale and the gulf coast intracoastal waterway than in the Bahamas. That color coding over there is pretty reliable.
 
Having lived in the Caribbean for a long time I know that the wind can be your friend and your foe.
As is normal with boats they tend to put the bow into the wind and thus the cockpit can be very nice and pleasant to sit in if it is not too hot, but it doesn't have a lot of wind.
The Caribbean is always hot, temperatures are between 90 and 100 degrees, so the wind is your friend. Too much wind and it is uncomfortable, not enough wind and you are sweating like a pig.
A big cockpit is nice, but if that cockpit has no wind flow it will become very unpleasant. We are now in the Med with our boat and also there it can become very hot. During day time it is impossible to sit out on the sun deck (we will change that), you will burn alive. Sitting in the cockpit or stern deck is also no option since there is no wind and you will be sweating.
So we have a sun shade on the bow area and use the wind to cool us down. Later, when the sun goes down we move to the sundeck and for dinner we go to the stern deck. In other words, committing yourself to having only one place to sit may sound nice, but is not always practical.
If I were OP I would look for more options to sit outside on the boat, in hot climates you will need them. Otherwise there is only one other solution and that is to go inside, switch the airco on and wait until the sun sets. That is no idea of fun to me.

As for adding an hydraulic platform to the boat, I looked into that this summer. Got a quote for 35.000 euro and upon checking with the yard in Taiwan I was told not to do it for exactly the reason that waves could slam into that platform and destroy it. So I let that idea for what it was. Would have been nice, but I am not going to install anything only to find out it gets destroyed first time we encounter some bad weather.
 
Sharked said:
There is no doubt in my mind that the trawlers like: Nordhavn, Fleming, Selene, Marlow, KaddyKrogen, TollyCraft, Defever, GrandBanks, are all very seaworthy & suitable for liveabaord. Problem is with their prices, It seems to be a seller's market now and prices are much higher then even just a few years ago, while the same boats keep getting older.
Click to expand...

In the beginning I also thought that older boats would be problematic, but then I was explained that in the 70's GRP was in its infancy. The builders had no idea of how strong GRP was going to be, so as a result they had one solution......just add more GRP.
And thus, the boats from the 70's tend to have a much thicker and thus stronger hull than necessary. After about 10 years the manufacturers figured out how strong GRP was and they started reducing hull thickness in order to lower the weight and the cost.
So while a 70's boat is indeed old, the fact that the hull is basically over engineered makes it a boat of which the basics will still be good, even in about 30 years. Of course there is a lot to watch out for, such as soggy deck spots, old electrical wiring, outdated electrical gear, but the base of the boat will stay in good condition. And that gives you an opportunity to get the price down and make the necessary changes and repairs, so that you have a strong boat for a good price.

It is just something to think of.

In the topic 'interesting boats' I posted a link of an extended Defever 44. It is now 68 or 69' and it has enormous outdoor space. It was used for diving as well and for some reason nobody is interested in it. Price has been reduced several times now and I guess it can go lower. Right now it is almost in your price range, it is in Canada, so will need to bring it down to Florida, but it looks like a solid boat to me.
https://www.oceanyachtsales.com/boa...eption-bay-newfoundland-and-labrador-7638482/

Here are some more
https://www.oceanyachtsales.com/boats-for-sale/used-powerboats/

and
https://www.facebook.com/GreatLoopYachtSales
 
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Mambo42 said:
Having lived in the Caribbean for a long time I know that the wind can be your friend and your foe.
As is normal with boats they tend to put the bow into the wind and thus the cockpit can be very nice and pleasant to sit in if it is not too hot, but it doesn't have a lot of wind.
The Caribbean is always hot, temperatures are between 90 and 100 degrees, so the wind is your friend. Too much wind and it is uncomfortable, not enough wind and you are sweating like a pig.
A big cockpit is nice, but if that cockpit has no wind flow it will become very unpleasant. We are now in the Med with our boat and also there it can become very hot. During day time it is impossible to sit out on the sun deck (we will change that), you will burn alive. Sitting in the cockpit or stern deck is also no option since there is no wind and you will be sweating.
So we have a sun shade on the bow area and use the wind to cool us down. Later, when the sun goes down we move to the sundeck and for dinner we go to the stern deck. In other words, committing yourself to having only one place to sit may sound nice, but is not always practical.
If I were OP I would look for more options to sit outside on the boat, in hot climates you will need them. Otherwise there is only one other solution and that is to go inside, switch the airco on and wait until the sun sets. That is no idea of fun to me.

As for adding an hydraulic platform to the boat, I looked into that this summer. Got a quote for 35.000 euro and upon checking with the yard in Taiwan I was told not to do it for exactly the reason that waves could slam into that platform and destroy it. So I let that idea for what it was. Would have been nice, but I am not going to install anything only to find out it gets destroyed first time we encounter some bad weather.
Click to expand...

Agreed, having different seating options is important, we are looking for a large cockpit and flybridge, even if the cockpit doesn't get any wind the flybridge should. And we can also put some chairs or cushions on the bow as well.

I like the idea of a large bare cockpit, that would be my backyard so to speak, I can put table & chairs, or it can become a workshop if I am doing repairs/upgrades.

Additionally since we are both scuba divers, it would be good for getting our gear on. However I would need a swim platform in addition to a large cockpit, having no swim platform is a deal breaker.
 
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Mambo42 said:
In the beginning I also thought that older boats would be problematic, but then I was explained that in the 70's GRP was in its infancy. The builders had no idea of how strong GRP was going to be, so as a result they had one solution......just add more GRP.
And thus, the boats from the 70's tend to have a much thicker and thus stronger hull than necessary. After about 10 years the manufacturers figured out how strong GRP was and they started reducing hull thickness in order to lower the weight and the cost.
So while a 70's boat is indeed old, the fact that the hull is basically over engineered makes it a boat of which the basics will still be good, even in about 30 years. Of course there is a lot to watch out for, such as soggy deck spots, old electrical wiring, outdated electrical gear, but the base of the boat will stay in good condition. And that gives you an opportunity to get the price down and make the necessary changes and repairs, so that you have a strong boat for a good price.

It is just something to think of.

In the topic 'interesting boats' I posted a link of an extended Defever 44. It is now 68 or 69' and it has enormous outdoor space. It was used for diving as well and for some reason nobody is interested in it. Price has been reduced several times now and I guess it can go lower. Right now it is almost in your price range, it is in Canada, so will need to bring it down to Florida, but it looks like a solid boat to me.
https://www.oceanyachtsales.com/boa...eption-bay-newfoundland-and-labrador-7638482/

Here are some more
https://www.oceanyachtsales.com/boats-for-sale/used-powerboats/
Click to expand...

Is that a general rule? Most 70s would have thicker fiberglass? What about 80's boats?
 
Beautiful boat. I’d be happy there.
 
Sharked said:
Is that a general rule? Most 70s would have thicker fiberglass? What about 80's boats?
Click to expand...

Generally speaking yes. Some early hulls also experienced some delamination as the builders learned to work with fiberglass. A good survey is a must regardless of age.

With older boats I would worry more about the system components than the hull itself. A 50 year old pump or valve is an old pump or valve. They can of course be replaced but I don’t want to be the one to do it.

The flip side to that is that oftentimes older boats came out of the factory with higher quality components to begin with. My ‘86 Hatteras still had the original fresh water pump in it when I sold it in 2020. I’ve replaced the one in my 2006 Silverton twice already.
 
Sharked said:
Is that a general rule? Most 70s would have thicker fiberglass? What about 80's boats?
Click to expand...
That is about 15 years out of date. Fiberglass came out in boats in 1952 and many pushed the limits and by 1960, boats were made much more heavy as a result of some spectacular failures in the 50's. By the late 60's boats were starting to become thinner and during the 1973 oil embargo thin hulls and coring was the rage. Prices were all over the place on fiberglass through the 70's and hull thicknesses were all over the place.
It's still all about making strong boats with cheaper materials and ways of manufacturing.
A fiberglass hull is no guarantee of a good hull. Many are built with wooden stringers, floors and engine beds and barely covered with a single layer of woven roving/matt. Rot of stringers and floors is common and often difficult to see without looking specifically for it.
 
Found this one on Youtube, no idea if it is still for sale 199,000 USD

 
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