Day / overnight cruiser - what should I be looking at?

[Blissboat]

Since selling my last boat in 2022, I've been watching the market for Downeast-style cruisers in the 28' to 40' range. My use is local day / evening cruises on the river and ICW, with occasional overnights and weekends at anchor or at marinas. I'm happy at trawler speeds, e.g. 8 knots or so, but want a turn of speed in reserve when necessary. By that I mean the ability to run at 14+ knots. I prefer a single engine for ease of access as well as to have protected running gear, therefore something like 250 hp or more is necessary. The Mainship Pilot series, 30' or 34', are good examples of what I like, since I don't care about a flybridge. I work full time, so project boats are non-starters. I’m looking for a boat whose P.O. has kept up with everything and has records to pass along. My price range is up to $120K or so.

What seems to have become a show-stopper is that a side door at the helm station is important to me. Without that, for a singlehanded or shorthanded skipper to reach the side deck or the bow requires moving aft first, then climbing onto a narrow side deck and going forward again. This is the issue with the Mainship Pilot series, and with the very handsome little Cape Dory 28, or the beautiful Legacy 28 Express. The 25' Rosboroughs do have a door next to the helm, but those boats are a bit small for what I need, especially when built with a true inboard engine.

The Zimmerman 36' has all that I'm looking for, as do some Legacys in the 32’+ range, but those listings hover well beyond the upper-end of my budget. I'm wandering around in no-boat land, and so turning now to the hive-mind of the TF. What should I be looking at?

I should probably fish-around over on the Downeast Forum as well.

 

[DavidM]

I have owned and cruised both single handed and with a crew member two of the boats that you mentioned: the CD 28 and the MS Pilot 34.

Frankly I didn’t find a lack of a side door a big problem for docking. And yes both are nice boats for your purposes.

The Westerbeke version of the CD 28 won’t meet your speed criteria. Do consider the gas version though. It is quieter than the Volvo diesel and for weekend use will last plenty long. And don’t consider the twin version of the Pilot 34. Not enough room for twins.

David

 

[Cigatoo]

I would want a true Down East cruiser. Especially in your part of the world. A single screw with a keel is nice to have in shallow water. Have you looked at Gray and Gray. Annie Gray will fix you up with something.
https://www.grayandgrayyachts.com/

 

[Blissboat]

I would want a true Down East cruiser. Especially in your part of the world. A single screw with a keel is nice to have in shallow water. Have you looked at Gray and Gray. Annie Gray will fix you up with something.
https://www.grayandgrayyachts.com/

Thanks, Carl. Yes, I have been on Gray & Gray's website often. She presently has the listing on a handsome Zimmerman 36 that checks nearly all my boxes, although at a price about $100K above my budget. It's always something . . .

 

[Blissboat]

I have owned and cruised both single handed and with a crew member two of the boats that you mentioned: the CD 28 and the MS Pilot 34.

Frankly I didn’t find a lack of a side door a big problem for docking. And yes both are nice boats for your purposes.

The Westerbeke version of the CD 28 won’t meet your speed criteria. Do consider the gas version though. It is quieter than the Volvo diesel and for weekend use will last plenty long. And don’t consider the twin version of the Pilot 34. Not enough room for twins.

David

Thanks, David. Interesting that you mentioned a gas-powered CD 28. I have been re-evaluating my lifelong aversion to gasoline inboards, since a couple of gas Cape Dorys came and went from the market within the past six months or so. Agree about twins in the Mainship Pilots. Even a single Yanmar looks hard enough to access in those engine compartments, IMO. Twins, forget about.

 

[DavidM]

With the single engine Pilot 34 I could squeeze my body around the port and starboard sides to work on the fuel filter, r/w pump, etc. It wasn’t easy with my then 70 yo, 220 lb body but I could do it. At 77 now and a few pounds heavier, I don’t think so.

Take a hard look at any CD 28 gassers that come up. If you only cruise a few hundred hours a year, a gasser makes a lot of sense with that size boat. Mine had the original Chrysler 275 hp engine that pushed it nicely to 12 kts at 3,200 and would top out at 19 kts and 4,400 rpm. The Volvo 200 would struggle to hit 17 kts at wot.

The Volvo did burn less fuel: 7 gph at 12 kts vs 11 gph at 12 kts for the gasser.

David

 

[CharlieO.]

How do you feel about cockpit controls?

 

[Blissboat]

How do you feel about cockpit controls?

Thanks for bringing that up. Real workboats have 'em. Suboptimal for me, but that would be a workaround. Recently I went through a 42' custom Downeast style, designed as a fishing boat but built as a yacht. It checked so many other boxes for me that I assessed it for a cockpit control station. An added expense, but I couldn't rule it out.

 

[Carl Martin]

I agree about posting this on the Downeast Boat Forum. 28 to 40 is a huge range. I would expect 40' at $120 K would need a lot of work. Mainships are decent boats but not in the same class as Ellis, Southshore, JC, Holland, Duffy, Wilbur etc..

 

[ABfish]

I've spent a fair amount of time on a Zimmerman 36. No side door.

 

[Blissboat]

I've spent a fair amount of time on a Zimmerman 36. No side door.

I envy you time spent aboard a Z36. Maybe they don't all have a side door, but this very nice 1998 example listed by Gray & Gray does:

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/1998-zimmerman-z36-custom-cruiser-9162706/

 

[MANANA]

Since selling my last boat in 2022, I've been watching the market for Downeast-style cruisers in the 28' to 40' range. My use is local day / evening cruises on the river and ICW, with occasional overnights and weekends at anchor or at marinas. I'm happy at trawler speeds, e.g. 8 knots or so, but want a turn of speed in reserve when necessary. By that I mean the ability to run at 14+ knots. I prefer a single engine for ease of access as well as to have protected running gear, therefore something like 250 hp or more is necessary. The Mainship Pilot series, 30' or 34', are good examples of what I like, since I don't care about a flybridge. I work full time, so project boats are non-starters. I’m looking for a boat whose P.O. has kept up with everything and has records to pass along. My price range is up to $120K or so.

What seems to have become a show-stopper is that a side door at the helm station is important to me. Without that, for a singlehanded or shorthanded skipper to reach the side deck or the bow requires moving aft first, then climbing onto a narrow side deck and going forward again. This is the issue with the Mainship Pilot series, and with the very handsome little Cape Dory 28, or the beautiful Legacy 28 Express. The 25' Rosboroughs do have a door next to the helm, but those boats are a bit small for what I need, especially when built with a true inboard engine.

The Zimmerman 36' has all that I'm looking for, as do some Legacys in the 32’+ range, but those listings hover well beyond the upper-end of my budget. I'm wandering around in no-boat land, and so turning now to the hive-mind of the TF. What should I be looking at?

I should probably fish-around over on the Downeast Forum as well.

Suggest you give a close look at the Camano31. No Helm door, but the flybridge helm is the preferred spot anyway, and it is excellent on this boat.

 

[ABfish]

I stand corrected about the Zimmerman.

What's your aversion to cockpit controls? I've found them most helpful when docking or single-handing.

 

[Blissboat]

I stand corrected about the Zimmerman.

What's your aversion to cockpit controls? I've found them most helpful when docking or single-handing.

A cockpit station makes perfect sense, and if I find a boat with the feature already installed, I'd be all over it. I may have sounded tepid about the idea because adding an outside station, even just for engine and rudder controls, could be expensive. Recently I flew to Miami to look at a stout, handsome 42' Downeast style cruiser that checked nearly every one of my boxes, except for lacking any side-deck access from the helm station. The engine controls at the inside helm were single-lever cables, and the steering was power-assisted hydraulic driven by a main-engine mounted hydraulic pump. As I started adding up the costs to address that boat's lengthy list of inherited issues (hull and deck paint, cabin and deck leaks, interior damage from those leaks, a questionable electrical panel, etc.) and then began thinking about retrofitting a second set of controls, it got to the point where I realized I should be looking for a different boat.

 

[ABfish]

If the boat has electronic engine controls and an autopilot, adding a second set of shifters and a jog stick is not a terrible project.

If it's a twin-engine boat, you really only need the engine controls/shifters for docking.

 

[Blissboat]

If the boat has electronic engine controls and an autopilot, adding a second set of shifters and a jog stick is not a terrible project.

If it's a twin-engine boat, you really only need the engine controls/shifters for docking.

As to the first point, I agree and am open to that possibility.

As to the second, it depends. Assuming neutral or favorable wind and current, and ample room to maneuver, yes. Add in any complicating factors, though, and I'm likely to put the rudders to work as well as the props.

Another Downeast-style cruiser I looked at recently, powered by a big Cummins, had a thruster at both the bow and the stern, controlled by a Bluetooth wireless remote that would fit in your pocket. There again, as long as conditions are benign that's a nice tool to have at hand. (And as long as there are no hiccups with that wireless connection).

MMC used to offer a plug-in remote for shifters and throttles, and as you say, in a boat that has electronic controls that would seem to be a reasonably trustworthy solution, especially if combined with an autopilot remote.

 

[SkookumAlaska]

Since selling my last boat in 2022, I've been watching the market for Downeast-style cruisers in the 28' to 40' range. My use is local day / evening cruises on the river and ICW, with occasional overnights and weekends at anchor or at marinas. I'm happy at trawler speeds, e.g. 8 knots or so, but want a turn of speed in reserve when necessary. By that I mean the ability to run at 14+ knots. I prefer a single engine for ease of access as well as to have protected running gear, therefore something like 250 hp or more is necessary. The Mainship Pilot series, 30' or 34', are good examples of what I like, since I don't care about a flybridge. I work full time, so project boats are non-starters. I’m looking for a boat whose P.O. has kept up with everything and has records to pass along. My price range is up to $120K or so.

What seems to have become a show-stopper is that a side door at the helm station is important to me. Without that, for a singlehanded or shorthanded skipper to reach the side deck or the bow requires moving aft first, then climbing onto a narrow side deck and going forward again. This is the issue with the Mainship Pilot series, and with the very handsome little Cape Dory 28, or the beautiful Legacy 28 Express. The 25' Rosboroughs do have a door next to the helm, but those boats are a bit small for what I need, especially when built with a true inboard engine.

The Zimmerman 36' has all that I'm looking for, as do some Legacys in the 32’+ range, but those listings hover well beyond the upper-end of my budget. I'm wandering around in no-boat land, and so turning now to the hive-mind of the TF. What should I be looking at?

I should probably fish-around over on the Downeast Forum as well.

 

[SkookumAlaska]

You mentioned Rosborough boats. I agree that the RF 246 might be too small. I have a RF 35, 450hp Cummins with 900hr. It does have a sliding helm door, new micro commander, new drum anchor winch. They don't make many of them but I love mine. Close boats would be the Nordic Tug 32 and 37. I don't need a couch in the salon but prefer a large cockpit for fishing and cocktails! Perfect boat for exploring Kodak, Prince Wm. Sound, and the Inside Passage. Not ready to sell, but probably in two years.
Good luck with your hunt!

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. B. I don't recall seeing this suggestion but how about an outboard powered vessel? Trim up for shallower waters. No cramped ER. Several advantages IMO.

 

[Blissboat]

Greetings,
Mr. B. I don't recall seeing this suggestion but how about an outboard powered vessel? Trim up for shallower waters. No cramped ER. Several advantages IMO.

Thanks, RT: All sound points. My outboard engines have always done best when they get rinsed and flushed after each use. That's best done out of the water, but my plan for this next boat is to keep it in a salt-water wet slip, which would make fresh-water flushing problematic.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. B. We run twin 150HP Yamahas that get flushed after every use. A quick connect on the flushing port makes it a "plug and play" exercise. It's accepted by Yamaha equally with muffs (out of water).

 

[Blissboat]

Greetings,
Mr. B. We run twin 150HP Yamahas that get flushed after every use. A quick connect on the flushing port makes it a "plug and play" exercise. It's accepted by Yamaha equally with muffs (out of water).

Hmm. I have heard of that but have never seen it done. So is the engine trimmed-up when you start it and flush it? That way all the salt water in the cooling loop would be displaced by fresh, and you could finish with an exterior rinse.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. B. Yamaha(Y) supplies the flushing port/hose with the motor as standard equipment but if you want to run the motor by while flushing Y strongly recommends NOT to use the flushing port but use muffs while on a trailer or lift. I flush my motors while trimmed fully up out of the water for 15 minutes as stipulated by Y. I don't know about using muffs while in the water.

 

[Nick14]

FWIW and solely IMHO, your list of requirements are a big ask for the price target. You may well find it in a downeast design, but it will likely need a LOT of work. In that price range, a project boat could easily eat up work equal to the purchase price and then some.

Also FWIW, common wisdom is to buy the smallest and best condition boat you can afford. Smaller means easier to handle (and less stuff to repair), and best condition means again less work.

There are downeast boats out there in your price range. I've looked at many over the years, they're likely to have significant needs.

Yet again FWIW I'd second the suggestions of others regarding the Rosborugh 246 and Camano 31. An outboard Rosborough would have more interior room and easy engine access compared with stern drive. You should be able to find good condition and not old Rosborough or Camano in your price range.

Gray & Gray is a great, one-stop shopping source for downeast boats. But a 30-something ft. downeast in your price range will probably be 30-40-ish years old. If you have the time and skills for an endless project it could be fun, but not if you just want to go out and use the boat as much as possible minimizing headaches.

 

[Blissboat]

FWIW and solely IMHO, your list of requirements are a big ask for the price target. You may well find it in a downeast design, but it will likely need a LOT of work. In that price range, a project boat could easily eat up work equal to the purchase price and then some.

Also FWIW, common wisdom is to buy the smallest and best condition boat you can afford. Smaller means easier to handle (and less stuff to repair), and best condition means again less work.

There are downeast boats out there in your price range. I've looked at many over the years, they're likely to have significant needs.

Yet again FWIW I'd second the suggestions of others regarding the Rosborugh 246 and Camano 31. An outboard Rosborough would have more interior room and easy engine access compared with stern drive. You should be able to find good condition and not old Rosborough or Camano in your price range.

Gray & Gray is a great, one-stop shopping source for downeast boats. But a 30-something ft. downeast in your price range will probably be 30-40-ish years old. If you have the time and skills for an endless project it could be fun, but not if you just want to go out and use the boat as much as possible minimizing headaches.

Thanks, Nick. Yep, a lot of boats out there are beautifully designed and in some cases well-built, but come with a long list of serious projects that need doing on Day 1. Every boat is a compromise, but with a job that is full-time +, that's one compromise I am unprepared to make, which helps explain why I am still looking. I'll probably have to compromise over something else from my list. And I agree that a compact gem of a boat that's ready to drop lines and go is preferable to a rambling, spacious dock / yard queen.

Can't explain why I have so much trouble warming up to the looks of the Camano. Reportedly they are very practical pocket cruisers, and within my reach price-wise, although they all seem to come with Volvo engines.

My order of priorities for a boat are similar to those for a car. Both should be:
1) Safe.
2) Reliable.
3) Efficient.
4) Good-looking.

 

[ranger58sb]

Don't remember seeing Ranger Tugs mentioned; dunno much about 'em, but we saw a mini-fleet of 'em where we were in Charleston for a few days. Maybe something there?

Left field: Something from Judge Yachts or Composite Yachts from Maryland's Eastern Shore? More like Chesapeake Bay workboat, but maybe not horribly dissimilar from something Down East-y.

-Chris

 

[Nick14]

I'll probably have to compromise over something. And I agree that a compact gem of a boat that's ready to drop lines and go is preferable to a rambling, spacious dock / yard queen.

Can't explain why I have so much trouble warming up to the looks of the Camano. Reportedly they are very practical pocket cruisers, and within my reach price-wise, although they all seem to come with Volvo engines.

My order of priorities for a boat are similar to those for a car. Both should be:
1) Safe.
2) Reliable.
3) Efficient.
4) Good-looking.

ALL boats are a compromise, unless you have Jeff Bezos money (and even he’s subject to those pesky laws of physics).

If you’re still early in your search it may just take seeing a pile of more boats until your priorities bubble to the surface, and the compromises you’re willing to make become clearer.

‘Good looking’ is purely personal. No right or wrong. One person’s beauty is another’s dry heave inducer. It’s whatever floats your personal boat (pun intended).

I don’t blame you on the Volvo engines. I’ve never personally owned one, the experiences here suggest most of them are well-built, reliable, and give good service, but maintenance and repair costs seem to be much higher than comparable Cummins or CATS. Still, it’s a compromise you might come to be able to live with.

In other words, as a long past girlfriend once said to me, “When all else fails, lower your standards.” (yes, she was probably referring to me)

 

[Mainship Pilot]

Single diesel here on my MS 30, with thrusters, I can maneuver onto a mooring stick and get to the bow with relative ease by myself to get the Hawsers on each end of the vessel at Catalina Island. I guess ask yourself, how many times would you actually be single handing in rough conditions that would limit yourself getting onto a mooring, or anchorage? As suggested here, every boat is a tradeoff, no such thing as a perfect fit, but some can come close!

 

[Blissboat]

I guess ask yourself, how many times would you actually be single handing in rough conditions that would limit yourself getting onto a mooring, or anchorage?

Fair point, but anchoring in rough conditions is admittedly infrequent (I hope!) and that's the sort of situation where I and every other sensible mariner is being cautious and alert. No, I am thinking more about the routine situations like docking or locking through in a canal, where you're hopping around on the side decks, reaching for lines, cleating and adjusting them as well as fenders. With a bit of reconnaissance and advance planning, fenders should be pre-positioned, and lines placed close at hand. But as the boat comes alongside, especially with any meaningful wind or current, someone needs to get a line onto a cleat within moments. If that line is a forward spring (my preference for the first line to be made fast) or a breast line, that cleat needs to be easily accessible. Whether I'm doing it alone or I have a crew member, I think it matters to have a safe deck to work from.

I have never fallen overboard, but I know of people who have, and it often seems to happen in situations where they were confident instead of cautious, and distracted rather than alert.

 

[Mainship Pilot]

Also fair points!