Fixing boats in Exotic Places - are new boats really that bad?

[Hippocampus]

Have some limited experience with pre prepped baked which to some degree can be thought as modular as some areas are pre assembled and glued together. Then dropped in. Usually no mechanical fasteners employed to take structural loads anywhere. In combination with synthetic core or honeycomb vaccum bagged used in places get the strongest, stiffest, lightest hull and deck possible. All work done in filtered air, ideal humidity and temperature. A very expensive way to build a boat. Totally amazing to see the size of the oven in places like NEB and the tech employed. Makes perfect sense for a RTW racer or other demanding application.
However may not be the best choice for us cruisers. Low tech solid grp hulls don’t require special techniques for repair and are less likely to shatter. Unfortunately the above posters are right the big series production builders are building to a price point and with little concern about access or repair. Totally agree the liner constructed boat are worst.
Would note you can build a stick built boat badly as well. Instead of glassing in the entire perimeter of bulkhead or other structural element just tab it in or only glass one side. Unfortunately you pay for quality in both stick and modular. As a dilettante I can see and fairly well assess the important structural elements of a stick built. I can’t with modular. Neither can I assess the quality of elements glued together. I know modern adhesives are stronger and more durable than mechanical fasteners but it’s an act of faith it was done correctly in some series production factories.

 

[Larry M]

Today’s boating building has evolved with computers and modern building techniques. Viking Yachts built 66 boats last year from 37’ to 90’(?). They take modular to a new level. 90% of the boat is built in house including wire harnesses for every boat. Our 1987, 42’ Krogen was stick built from the hull up and as they say, “if you’ve seen 1 Krogen, you've seen 1 Krogen. I loved our Krogen but it was built with yesterday’s technology. Here are some recent pics from Viking.

 

[Hippocampus]

Nothing like typical series production. Also note the absence of a liner. Always thought they make wonderful boats.

 

[HeadMistress]

Sailboat owners have long defined cruising as "sailing your boat to exotic ports to work on it," and yachting as "sailing your boat to exotic ports to pay other people to work on it."

I owned boats for 30 years and learned early on that owners of any boat that's too big to keep on a trailer in your garage will never be able to claim they have nothing to do, that there's good reasoning behind the term "PREVENTIVE" maintenance, and that it doesn't matter whether the boat is brand new or 50 years old, 90% of the need for repairs can be laid right at the feet of owners who only "fix what breaks."

--Peggie

 

[cfr]

modern production has a lot of advantages at least cost savings but also better surfaces and cleaner lines but i experienced that later maintenance or refit can be a nightmare because pipes, hoseclamps bolts were installed from a total different position with the open deck. sometimes i need to cut wonderfull wood because a simple bolt or clamp was impossible to reach.........old boats built from the inside are much easer later........and i know boats where you can not change a fridge, washer or genny because hatches and doors are too small

 

[Hippocampus]

C makes the key point in this thread imho. It can be done right if NA and construction is designed with service in mind. Simple things like using manifolds to eliminate needless through hulls. Wiring in conduit and accessible to run a snake to replace. Soft patches so engines can be replaced. Was in a IGY were main propulsion engine was being replaced on. 70’ something. The saloon floor was a soft patch so only the cosmetic flooring would need to be replaced. Similarly the overhead and boat deck directly above. A simple crane pulled this monster engine out and dropped a new one in.
Totally agree there are multiple advantages to modular. Refit isn’t one of them. Same issue with many stick built. I’ve just spent 10d in Deltaville Boat yard. A sailing cat here had the sides of its hulls chopped out in order to get to the engines. Not simple surgery to replace those gaping holes.
Aluminum tanks may fail. Use grp tanks possibly integral to the hull. Can be coated appropriately for contents and allow a double bottom as well as improve hull stiffness.
In so many places boats would be easier to live with if design included future service requirements as a parameter.

 

[mvweebles]

This is not a supply side issue - it's a demand side issue. Meaning the problem isn't builders making boat components inaccessible but rather buyers wanting so much stuff on the boat in the first place. Imagine a pair of 450 hp diesels (with gear) and two 500 gallon propane tanks- then try to figure out how to fit them into a 50-foot x 17-foot hull with posh living quarters.

You cannot put 10-lbs of potatoes in a 5-lb sack. Something's gotta give - stick vs modular build isn't the problem. We all like "help me find my next boat" threads - ease of repair/replacement is never on the list of OP requirements or TF'er response. Repair/refit be damned - figure it out when/if the time comes.

Peter

 

[Hippocampus]

Peter agree the admiral is the one that commonly chooses the boat so appearances and creature comforts are a big part of that decision. However once you get over a certain size coastal or blue and spend real time on the boat my concern is elevated. Think what you say is very likely true for most first time buyers but less true for salty people like you. Think some brands including N, OA, Northern etc. do pay at least some attention to access and service ease. Have replaced gensets on prior boats where it was a piece of cake and on others where it was a bear. Both had the equivalent amount of “stuff”. Gensets of the same size and weight. So respectfully agree to disagree. Think unlike boats of decades ago which are still functioning at original splash spec and performance the most recent tend to be designed as being more disposable.

 

[cfr]

good thread....yes the old boats are built for a long life BUT sadly nobody likes to buy them after 20-30 years when their benefit just starts to shine. i still have a alu sailboat 44 ft, no washing m/c, no inside shower, 3 bunks, a solid 2 cyl sabb diesel, good and strong rigg, propane cook and a cool box, no genny no watermaker and its easy to maintain and abundant storage . i still got inquiries from couples who wants to sail arround the world and like such kiss approach. my friend with a 46 benetau has ALL equipment from a/c, genny, water maker and bunks for six but zero storage for spare sails or a 80 m towing rope etc. impossible to use it for really long time aboard.
But for trawlers i dont see too many couples who buy such older boats, maybe here in europe to use it for inland canal travel but not offshore. first most powerboaters are a different breed than sailor who are used to a frugal camping live but more of buy use and sell attidude. to refit a decent trawler in the 50 ft scale you need some real money and later we talk about a 300-600 k investment and often people who do have such money do not have the skills to to it by themselves or the desire to do it. And there are not so many really nice powerboats out where a refit makes sense financially , with sailboats there are some nice ones which will be refitted every 10 years because of their wonderfull lines and looks. I will buy an old trawler hopefully with a gardner engine as my last boat and will not care about any resale value, but there are not many like us .....

 

[boating rich]

Great discussion folks. I am trying to go as KISS as possible, but it’s tough…I am thinking: Good mfd, radar, ais, fridge, solar panels and HVAC.

 

[mvweebles]

Somewhere there has to be a complexity quotient with a Greek letter as indicator. Something like number of number of pistons plus impellers plus thru-hulls, multiplied by square root of number of inline fuses (including the small hidden ones), plus number of prop shafts.

Peter

 

[twistedtree]

Somewhere there has to be a complexity quotient with a Greek letter as indicator. Something like number of number of pistons plus impellers plus thru-hulls, multiplied by square root of number of inline fuses (including the small hidden ones), plus number of prop shafts.

Peter

Oh there is a complexity & cost coefficient for boats. It's ∞