Murder City

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Cargile

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Quasimodo
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Cargile Cutter
I suppose this is a good sub forum to ask my question. Members of a facebook group, Bahamas Land and Sea are stating there have been 19 murders this January in Nassau/New Providence. I have not found this alarming number of murders reported any where else. Any comments?
 
Yes. It was reported on national news in US last night. US changed the tourist info warning up one notch because of the murders. Gang stuff going on.
 
The NY Post reported this and also stated that the U.S. government has listed it as a no travel warning. I have not verified this.
 
I suppose this is a good sub forum to ask my question. Members of a facebook group, Bahamas Land and Sea are stating there have been 19 murders this January in Nassau/New Providence. I have not found this alarming number of murders reported any where else. Any comments?

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what about other islands?
 
24 murders in Chicago so far in January 2024
16 murders in NYC so far in January 2024
13 murders in ST. Louis so far in January 2024
 
Noteworthy murders seem limited to a very small number of islands and most local on local gang related.
In our travels St. Vincent was considered a no go country . We visited on multiple occasions without any difficulties. Pay attention to Noonsite. Know your particulars. For St.Vincent the troubles are on the main island not the small ones. Also inside the fenced in resorts things are fine. Bequia is one of our all time favorites for the entire eastern Caribbean and the other small islands south of the main island are great as well. They’re are part of St. Vincent.
Same with PR. Crime can be an issue in spots. But the small islands off to the east of the main island are fine. Culebra is great fun.
Same with Trinidad. Only the harbors and yards at the southern end truly cater to the cruising community. They are fine. Just don’t go elsewhere.
Would approach the Bahamas the same way. Even though technically speaking it isn’t part of the Caribbean. Skip the high crime areas. Use some situational awareness as you should aways do. Go have fun.
 
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I was worried about all those stats until I clicked on a 20 most dangerous cities in the world and Cleveland, the closest city of any size to us, was on the list. I don't feel unsafe walking in Cleveland. I would not feel safe in some areas but I don't need to go there. Should not be too difficult to acquire local knowledge about where to avoid and how to avoid.
I can tell you that the NYC writers never like Cleveland and they have never been here except through our airport.
 
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I suppose this is a good sub forum to ask my question. Members of a facebook group, Bahamas Land and Sea are stating there have been 19 murders this January in Nassau/New Providence. I have not found this alarming number of murders reported any where else. Any comments?

Nassau is so NOT like the rest of the Bahamas. Heck the 3rd largest "city" is Marsh Harbor and it only has 1 stop light. For the most part the only reason cruisers go to Nassau is because they need something too hard to have put on the mail/ferry boat. Nassau is really shithole once you are out of the downtown zone.

BTW if you note, the problems are just like is most cities and are between gangs. Gangs are not operating in downtown Nassau or even along the watefront there. I have walked down lots of questionable streets outside of the 5 block radius of downtown Nassua and never had a problem.
 
24 murders in Chicago so far in January 2024
16 murders in NYC so far in January 2024
13 murders in ST. Louis so far in January 2024


Chicago population 9,000,000
Nassau population 260,000
 
Nassau is so NOT like the rest of the Bahamas. Heck the 3rd largest "city" is Marsh Harbor and it only has 1 stop light. For the most part the only reason cruisers go to Nassau is because they need something too hard to have put on the mail/ferry boat. Nassau is really shithole once you are out of the downtown zone.

BTW if you note, the problems are just like is most cities and are between gangs. Gangs are not operating in downtown Nassau or even along the watefront there. I have walked down lots of questionable streets outside of the 5 block radius of downtown Nassua and never had a problem.


This exactly.


Unless you are flying through, or have to stop there for fuel/restock, I don't know why anyone would ever choose to go to Nassau. It sucks.
 
Originally Posted by CharlieO.

24 murders in Chicago so far in January 2024
16 murders in NYC so far in January 2024
13 murders in ST. Louis so far in January 2024

Chicago population 9,000,000
Nassau population 260,000

Stated using different data and playing with numbers
Chicago metro area (Chicagoland) is 10,286 square miles
Bahamas which a country not a city is 5,383 square miles.

Homicides per square mile:
Chicago .00233
The Bahamas .00334 to .00353

With 18 or 19 homicides in the Bahamas, one might make a comparison with that data the locations are similar.

Of course the flaw in the data above is homicides are not equally distributed across the land for all locations which include US cities.

Hmmmmmm
 
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Originally Posted by CharlieO.

24 murders in Chicago so far in January 2024
16 murders in NYC so far in January 2024
13 murders in ST. Louis so far in January 2024



Stated using different data and playing with numbers
Chicago metro area (Chicagoland) is 10,286 square miles
Bahamas which a country not a city is 5,383 square miles.

Homicides per square mile:
Chicago .00233
The Bahamas .00334 to .00353

With 18 or 19 homicides in the Bahamas, one might make a comparison with that data the locations are similar.

Of course the flaw in the data above is homicides are not equally distributed across the land for all locations which include US cities.

Hmmmmmm

That's an interesting look at the numbers, however people commit murder, not land, so I think looking at it on a per capita basis is more meaningful.
 
I was worried about all those stats until I clicked on a 20 most dangerous cities in the world and Cleveland, the closest city of any size to us, was on the list. I don't feel unsafe walking in Cleveland. I would not feel safe in some areas but I don't need to go there. Should not be too difficult to acquire local knowledge about where to avoid and how to avoid.
I can tell you that the NYC writers never like Cleveland and they have never been here except through our airport.

Yeah, Cleveland certainly was picked on quite a bit in the past. Never really understood why. Course, the South gets unfair criticism too.

One really just needs to keep your wits about you when walking around a city. Is an area neat and orderly or full of trash and cigarette butts? Does one see broken windows, boarded up businesses, security signs for alarms, or barbed/razor wire on fences? How are people acting?

Do YOU feel comfortable? One is likely to pick up on things especially from peoples behavior.

We have been to Dublin a couple of times, spent almost two weeks there in total, and walked every day but one. There were a few areas were my Spidey Sense went up a notch. We were walking near the Guinness Store House going back to where we were renting a house. The area had razor wire up in places, trash on the sidewalks, burglar alarms and some boarded up places. No people out and about either. Which could be good or could be bad. :D Nothing happened because there were no people. It was kinda funny because the wind had picked up, it was quiet, no people and the wind was blowing trash down the road and sidewalks and reminded me of a urban tumble weeds in a Western movie. :rofl:

However, there was at least one homeless person living under a bridge we walked beside every day. Never saw the person but one would see signs if one was paying attention. Dublin has a bad homeless problem, some of which is drug related and they would be seen sleeping on monuments.

We were getting groceries in small local stores but one day, at one of the stores, there were 10-15 teenagers hanging around the store front. Spidey Sense went back up. They were not overtly misbehaving but groups can cause problems quickly. There were two security guards in the store if one was paying attention. The guards were in plain clothes and looked like bouncers. The store was not paying them because everything was peaceful all of the time. :)

We were staying at an AirBnb and the area was "safe" from what I could tell. A year or so after we left, I read a homeless man had been beaten to death by two teenagers in the alley behind the town house. I wondered if the two kids were hanging around the grocery store and if this was the guy who was living under the bridge....

An American visitor was attacked by three teenagers last year. The attack was not in a bad area, nor a tourist area, and if we had not walked where he was attacked, we where within a 100 feet or less. Never read WHY he was attacked but they beat the heck out of him and he was in the hospital for a month or two. There were a couple of other tourists attacked in the tourist part of the city last year. They were targeted by a groups of people which made it even more unusual.

A man attacked a bunch of school kids at a school in Dublin last year. Again, if we had not walked past the school, we had walked within a 100 feet or so, and I would not have considered the area unsafe. Strangely, we found out later that an Irish Man we had met in southern Ireland had a grand daughter who attended that school. Thankfully she was not physically injured.

Even in "safe" areas, it might not be safe. One has to pay attention.

Saw similar issues in the NL, though not as much, which was interesting.
 
All over the Caribbean and South America crime is rampant, but good part is they mostly kill each other. 99 % of the murders is drug related, so if you have nothing to do with drugs you will be fine.
However, what you should be paying attention to is burglaries and robberies. If that number goes up you know you are in trouble.
In Curacao we have an inner water, called Spanish Water, where most of the visiting sailing vessels anchor out. It is free, they don't need to pay, but there is no security. So out there theft of dinghy's and outboard engines has gone up. And they will use violence when you disturb them.
In our house on Curacao we have 4 dogs that are known to rip people apart who enter the premises without being invited. The neighborhood knows it, they make sure the criminals know it and therefore nobody ever entered our terrain. The only one who ever entered without permission was in fact a friend and we had to bring him to the hospital. So be it.
When we are on the boat in the Med those same dogs are onboard, there is not a single sole who will enter our boat and make it out alive.:)
Back to the Bahama's.
If you are in an anchorage, far away from civilization, I would not worry about it.
If you are busy with drugs and you did not pay your dealer..........I would worry about it.
If you are in a marina with security, I would not worry about it.
If you are in an anchorage 100 mtr away from the shore in a bad town........I would worry about it.
Long story short, get some dogs and you will be safe, because if there is one thing the locals are afraid of, it is agressive dogs. :flowers:
 
Don't even need aggressive, just barking.

"If you hear the dog barking I'm loading the shotgun"
 
Also be active in the local cruising community. One year in the southern bays of Grenada there was a rash of dinghy thefts. We had no troubles but made sure to lift our dinghy out of the water every night. The local police had no luck stopping these thefts. The cruising community got together and took turns doing a night watch with their dinghies. That showed the thieves were swimming out. Then cutting the dinghy free and swimming it in to shore. No noise so boat occupants not woken up. Further observation showed only the engine was taken and the dinghy was abandoned. Due to risk of violence and injury the watchers didn’t intervene. But the scenario explained to local police. They positioned their boats partially hidden throughout the at risk anchorages using anchored boats, docks,etc.. the LEs caught several while they were swimming. They ratted out others and the entire ring of thieves caught. Multiple engines and a few dinghies returned to owners. So sometimes the Lord helps those who help themselves.
 
Always.

If you want it done right, do it yourself.

Or explain the method of operations to LE in this case. Cops are busy and need a little more info to get excited.
 
Barking dogs and Police patrols as boat theft deterrents? Nah, Sydney anchorages have sharks, bull sharks, on patrol, right now.
af8a50ae93d481928cc6a81f0c9546db

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-01-31/nsw-sydney-bull-sharks-attack-harbour-warmer-water/103407674
 
We are totally safe
 

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The NY Post reported this and also stated that the U.S. government has listed it as a no travel warning. I have not verified this.

This is incorrect.

The State Department has 4 travel levels

1 - Exercise Normal Precautions
2 - Exercise Increased Caution
3 - Reconsider Travel
4 - Do not Travel

As of January 26, 2024, the State Department raised the Travel Level to:

2 - Exercise Increased Caution

https://travel.state.gov/content/tr...eladvisories/the-bahamas-travel-advisory.html

Stating that they increased advisory levels is true. That they increased advisory levels to 'Do Not Travel', is unfortunately...not.

Consider doing research or providing links to avoid posting misinformation.
 
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If you remove drug related crime and self deletions from the gun stats, it's a non-starter. More people drown in their own swimming pools than gun deaths.
 
Your point?

24 murders in Chicago so far in January 2024
16 murders in NYC so far in January 2024
13 murders in ST. Louis so far in January 2024

There's less than 300,000 people on New Providence Island so, those U.S. statistics look pretty tame.
 
FWIW, I traveled, solo by motorcycle, through Mexico, Central and South America in 2005. Folks said I was going to die. Other than being robbed of $80 in Guatemala, I had no other issues. Stay away from hookers and drugs, travel by day and use your spidey senses. Get local knowledge when available and heed to it. You'll be ok.
 
There's less than 300,000 people on New Providence Island so, those U.S. statistics look pretty tame.

No point, just quoting crime statistics.
But Baltimore has a higher crime rating index than Nassau.
Even my small town and surrounding area in Vermont has the occasional murder, almost always related to drugs and gangs.
 
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