PDQ cat as a "Trawler"

[DavidU]

I've listened to a podcast on Passagemaker about a couple with a PDQ catamaran doing the loop and being thrilled with their boat. They were so intriguing. As I shop for trawlers and/or tugs to cruise,(east coast ICW, bahamas, loop) used to new, I can't seem to completely pull away from these boats that are typically 2006 and older and 34 feet. The PDQ meets so many of the needs/wants I have for my wife and I for a boat, but for 25-40% of the price. Help? So many boats I see in the upper hundred thousands that potentially can be done, but, why? That's my question, why spend $850,000 when I can meet 90% of my wants and needs with a $275,000 cat? Save me from myself? Please...

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
MY opinion only. If a PDQ will meet your needs, by all means buy one but for $275K to $300K there are dozens of vessels that can cruise the areas you mention unless you have quite specific criteria. I'm sure the PDQ is a pretty good boat BUT from the one's I've seen, I wouldn't want to do much engine service unless I could navigate the ER spaces. I may have been able 40 years ago but certainly not now.

 

[DavidU]

I completely agree. Just thinking I could afford a Chinese contortionist diesel mechanic a few years for $500,000. Me, I'm too fat and want to stay that way. I really don't want this boat, but I've spent my adulthood making sound financial decisions....probably time to splurge, but old habits are hard to break.

 

[mvweebles]

I don't know the PDQ, but I have spent a fair amount of time on power cats. I love the flow of the living space, they are maneuverable since the engines are spaced far apart. Very stable at anchor.

But there are a few considerations to think about:

1. Waterline. There's no getting away from a short waterline of 34-feet. Manageable but weather will be a constraint. I'm currently cruising a 36-foot displacement monohull (33-feet waterline) and I can tell you, you are susceptible to common short chop that typically comes up in the afternoon in open water. Now, most of your proposed itinerary is fine - crossing to the Bahamas will need extra care. Again, not a deal killer, but just so you know.

2. Jerky motion. Cats are inherently stable, but they are prone to a snap-roll that takes some getting used to. You'd think beam seas would be a breeze but they are not. You don't get the horrendous pendulum roll that a monohull can develop, but it's no walk in the park either. Trade-off.

3. Berthing. By far, the biggest issue is finding a place for a catamaran, especially since Cats are so popular these days. You'll be berthing for a 40-45 footer which is okay since you have the accomodations of something close to that.

4. Engine Room. As RT Firefly states, engine access is tight, often really tight. Every power cat I've been aboard has been tight - even when they get to 60-feet, the engine room is difficult, on par with my 36-foot displacement boat.

None of the above are deal killers. And there's a lot to be said for a power cat. But every boat has tradeoffs - a powercat has some unique ones that you need to factor into your selection criteria.

 

[DavidU]

These are the considerations I am looking for. I appreciate your knowledge and feedback. I am shopping for bigger boats but some of those have less features than the PDQ 34. Just wanting all the info positive and negative I can get to help move forward. Thinking we will charter one if we can. Find out first hand.

 

[mvweebles]

These are the considerations I am looking for. I appreciate your knowledge and feedback. I am shopping for bigger boats but some of those have less features than the PDQ 34. Just wanting all the info positive and negative I can get to help move forward. Thinking we will charter one if we can. Find out first hand.

To me, the biggest benefit of a power cat is speed/economy. I don't know for certain, but I would not be surprised to learn the PDQ 34 will run 9-10 kts at 5 gph. That type of speed opens a lot of cruising grounds to you. 50 nms takes me close to 8-hours. For the PDQ, a bit over 5-hours I suppose. Granted I'll burn just 10-gal diesel vs 25-ish gals, but not a big difference in the big scheme of costs. Especially if you still have a life/job outside of cruising.

Good luck - tough decision

Peter

 

[DavidU]

4 gph at 10kts. Thankfully this is not a huge consideration. A plus no doubt but that's all. 10 kts and 10 gph is fine with me, single or double but preferably single. Luckily, I do have a life, but don't have a job! That's why I'm here. Worked all my life to be having these conversations and it's wonderful. I love boats, period, but they do take money and that's where all these considerations come in. Hopefully gotta make the money last for at least a few years.

 

[DavidU]

And btw, it's the easiest, best decision ever. Pick a boat. Cruise, play, explore. These are easy decisions. Do I want chemo to prolong my life a year?, now that's a decision. Do I want any boat, good or bad, the answer is HELL YES! Never met a boat I didn't like. You can't ever be but so wrong when picking a boat.

 

[Comodave]

As to the weather concerns, a cat can cruise faster than a displacement boat so you may be able to work around the lesser weather conditions. Maybe, maybe not.

 

[klee wyck]

I don't know the PDQ, but I have spent a fair amount of time on power cats. I love the flow of the living space, they are maneuverable since the engines are spaced far apart. Very stable at anchor.

But there are a few considerations to think about:

1. Waterline. There's no getting away from a short waterline of 34-feet. Manageable but weather will be a constraint. I'm currently cruising a 36-foot displacement monohull (33-feet waterline) and I can tell you, you are susceptible to common short chop that typically comes up in the afternoon in open water. Now, most of your proposed itinerary is fine - crossing to the Bahamas will need extra care. Again, not a deal killer, but just so you know.

2. Jerky motion. Cats are inherently stable, but they are prone to a snap-roll that takes some getting used to. You'd think beam seas would be a breeze but they are not. You don't get the horrendous pendulum roll that a monohull can develop, but it's no walk in the park either. Trade-off.

3. Berthing. By far, the biggest issue is finding a place for a catamaran, especially since Cats are so popular these days. You'll be berthing for a 40-45 footer which is okay since you have the accomodations of something close to that.

4. Engine Room. As RT Firefly states, engine access is tight, often really tight. Every power cat I've been aboard has been tight - even when they get to 60-feet, the engine room is difficult, on par with my 36-foot displacement boat.

None of the above are deal killers. And there's a lot to be said for a power cat. But every boat has tradeoffs - a powercat has some unique ones that you need to factor into your selection criteria.

Hey Peter!
Have you ever seen a power cat with a decent engine room?
BTW, how are you liking Mazatlan? We are thing about making that hop on the southern crossing later this Winter. About 15 hours for us.

 

[DavidM]

I cruised for about a year along the east coast on a 35’ Island Packet sailing cat, but at least half the time it was a power cat. It had similar dimensions and displacement as the PDQ. It was equipped with a pair of 27 hp Yanmar’s.

It was quite efficient with the Yanmar’s, burning a little over 1 gph at 6 kts. The engine room while tight gave me full access to all sides of the engine.

David

 

[mvweebles]

Hey Peter!
Have you ever seen a power cat with a decent engine room?
BTW, how are you liking Mazatlan? We are thing about making that hop on the southern crossing later this Winter. About 15 hours for us.

There are two broad scenarios that I think of for engine access on a cruising boat. First, routine maintenance which is done dockside at rest - is there reasonable access to all sides of the engine. Does it require a retired jockey for a mechanic? Second, underway inspections and observations, changing fuel valves, etc. - can you safely view all sides of the engine when it's hot and running? Because a catamarab hulls are narrow by definition, some compromise in both categories is a given. Not to say monohulls are better - many with twins do not fair well either, and in my opinion, many sailboats have especially poor engine access.

Mazatlan is fine. I'm jealous as hell that you'd make it here in 15 hours as it took us 31, but that's why people own cars. It's a much bigger city than La Paz. The mercado dates back over 100 years and is very big. The Malecon is miles long and stretches along an absolutely stunning bay. Marina Mazatlan is a bit run down but there is an easy bus to downtown.

Peter

 

[sunchaser]

Hey Peter!
Have you ever seen a power cat with a decent engine room?
BTW, how are you liking Mazatlan? We are thing about making that hop on the southern crossing later this Winter. About 15 hours for us.

Yes. The Aspen power cat with outboards has a very nice ER - open on all sides! They have different HP for each side given the asymmetric hull design.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. s. Two outboards of different HP? Sounds like a really dumb idea IMO. Two sets of different spares? Right.

 

[darkside]

Engine access in a powercat can be eased by good design. The pic is swapping an alternator belt, underway on the other engine, in Dusky Sound. Not sure if we could have managed it without the front of engine doors into the shower stalls.
Can a smaller powercat be a trawler? A year ago today we set off on our 40' on a 2800nm loop of New Zealand. That took us seven weeks in some spectacular and remote areas. I think 7 nights in marinas, the rest on the hook. I vote yes.
The PDQ has quite a quirky layout and has limited access to the water for fishing/diving/swimming. Other than that it packs a lot of boat into 34'

 

[klee wyck]

Engine access in a powercat can be eased by good design. The pic is swapping an alternator belt, underway on the other engine, in Dusky Sound. Not sure if we could have managed it without the front of engine doors into the shower stalls.
Can a smaller powercat be a trawler? A year ago today we set off on our 40' on a 2800nm loop of New Zealand. That took us seven weeks in some spectacular and remote areas. I think 7 nights in marinas, the rest on the hook. I vote yes.
The PDQ has quite a quirky layout and has limited access to the water for fishing/diving/swimming. Other than that it packs a lot of boat into 34'
View attachment 144018

Save your breath Darkside. They can look at it and still not see it.
I have a monohull with an engine room that four grown men can stand in but engine access for service is better in the cat. Like you say, not all cats, but with good design it can be quite functional, especially given the other benefits.

 

[mvweebles]

Save your breath Darkside. They can look at it and still not see it.
I have a monohull with an engine room that four grown men can stand in but engine access for service is better in the cat. Like you say, not all cats, but with good design it can be quite functional, especially given the other benefits.

You are both talking NZ designed power cats. Rest of the power catamaran world is far behind NZ for cats intended to cruise long distances in safety and comfort

DOMINO is a helluva boat, and defines the trawler-cat class. She's the penultimate couple-cruising platform.

Peter

 

[DDW]

Engine access in a powercat can be eased by good design. The pic is swapping an alternator belt, underway on the other engine, in Dusky Sound. Not sure if we could have managed it without the front of engine doors into the shower stalls.
Can a smaller powercat be a trawler? A year ago today we set off on our 40' on a 2800nm loop of New Zealand. That took us seven weeks in some spectacular and remote areas. I think 7 nights in marinas, the rest on the hook. I vote yes.
The PDQ has quite a quirky layout and has limited access to the water for fishing/diving/swimming. Other than that it packs a lot of boat into 34'
View attachment 144018

Darkside has the advantage of defying gravity, allowing you to stick tools to the wall. That alone gets you extra room!

 

[sunchaser]

Greetings,
Mr. s. Two outboards of different HP? Sounds like a really dumb idea IMO. Two sets of different spares? Right.

You’re right. Those pesky little oil and fuel filters take up the space of a beer can.

 

[Nick14]

I'm certainly not an expert on power catamarans. One of the things I've seen mentioned as a potential design limitation is bridge deck clearance and wave slamming.

When heading into waves and chop, one of the things that can happen is waves slamming into the bridge deck connecting the two hulls - "bridgedeck slamming". Some cats have a mini-V hull under the bridge deck to help mitigate this, but it's a design element to consider. Insufficient clearance in sufficiently unpleasant sea conditions can result in a loud, rough ride (or worse). It may or may not be an issue for you, depending on the waters and kinds of sea conditions you expect to encounter.

Slamming waves and open bridgedeck crossbeams.

https://catamaranguru.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/catamaran_bridgedeck_clearance.pdf

Unbearable slamming - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

All boats and designs have plusses and minuses. Unless you have Jeff Bezos money, every boat is a compromise. Think about what is the best fit for you and your expected uses.

 

[klee wyck]

I'm certainly not an expert on power catamarans. One of the things I've seen mentioned as a potential design limitation is bridge deck clearance and wave slamming.

When heading into waves and chop, one of the things that can happen is waves slamming into the bridge deck connecting the two hulls - "bridgedeck slamming". Some cats have a mini-V hull under the bridge deck to help mitigate this, but it's a design element to consider. Insufficient clearance in sufficiently unpleasant sea conditions can result in a loud, rough ride (or worse). It may or may not be an issue for you, depending on the waters and kinds of sea conditions you expect to encounter.

Slamming waves and open bridgedeck crossbeams.

https://catamaranguru.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/catamaran_bridgedeck_clearance.pdf

Unbearable slamming - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

All boats and designs have plusses and minuses. Unless you have Jeff Bezos money, every boat is a compromise. Think about what is the best fit for you and your expected uses.

Compromise or priority?
While slap and sneeze is common in cats where design criteria emphasize things like having three pop up TVs and 3 heads for the two people aboard. Where priorities are a safe, comfortable, quiet cruise there is no need for slap or sneeze.
I am only three years in but have never heard my cat slap. My brothers 30 knot 26-foot Sea Dory Tomcat will slap in two-foot chop and the PC52 pictured here is likely the same.
Again, design goes a long way toward eliminating the compromises you are unwilling to make. The cat on the upper photo does not slap or sneeze. The one on the bottom very likely does.

 

[mvweebles]

Compromise or priority?
While slap and sneeze is common in cats where design criteria emphasize things like having three pop up TVs and 3 heads for the two people aboard. Where priorities are a safe, comfortable, quiet cruise there is no need for slap or sneeze.
I am only three years in but have never heard my cat slap. My brothers 30 knot 26-foot Sea Dory Tomcat will slap in two-foot chop and the PC52 pictured here is likely the same.
Again, design goes a long way toward eliminating the compromises you are unwilling to make. The cat on the upper photo does not slap or sneeze. The one on the bottom very likely does.

The PC52 pictures is a Horizon. A good friend owns one and I've had the pleasure to do several trips with him. Even doing 200nms, there has been no reason to endure difficult weather beyond 3-4 foot chop atop a light swell. No slap that I recall.

Not to say there aren't some things to get used to on a cat's ride. My sense is hull slap is something non-Cat owners wring their hands about.

I'd be remiss if I didn't mention that in steep headseas, a bulbous bow can make a very loud thunder clap, as can stabilizer fins in beam sea chop. Many monohull designs have lifting stakes built into their bow - guessing those can get loud in certain sea conditions.

Peter

 

[Serene]

[SNIP]

I'd be remiss if I didn't mention that in steep headseas, a bulbous bow can make a very loud thunder clap, as can stabilizer fins in beam sea chop. Many monohull designs have lifting stakes built into their bow - guessing those can get loud in certain sea conditions.

Even without lifting strakes, just the chine where it enters the water can make quite a noise too!

 

[DDW]

My sense is hull slap is something non-Cat owners wring their hands about.

Not a power cat, but I've bareboat chartered sailing cats, most of the charter ones have low bridge deck clearance. In the right size and period waves going upwind, it would slap and the occasional "slap" practically threw you out of the helm chair. Like a small bomb going off. I can't imagine why a power cat would be different. Better performing sailing cats have much higher bridge deck clearance, and a bridge deck starting further aft of the bow.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Coincidentally, a very timely subject (catamaran performance). Yesterday (Sunday) we had our first occasion to take our "new" boat (2015 World Cat 2770) out on the ocean. 3' to 4' swells @ 8 sec. I would describe conditions as "sporty" for that size boat.



With an overall 8.5' beam she is not really comparable to a "cruising cat" being substantially narrower and with a weight of 7500 lbs (dry) BUT she did handle noticeably different than a monohull.


Running directly into the swell we did experience slamming and sneezing which eased, somewhat, if approached from an angle. Running abeam or down the swell caused no concern.


I have read extensively about dealing with various sea conditions where some suggest an increase of speed would minimize or eliminate said pounding and/or sneezing but being my first experience I was very hesitant to run any more than 1/2 throttle. I experienced about 18 mph (statute) @ 3200 rpm. I had hoped for more benign conditions BUT, she was what she was. Most definitely need more practice.


Apples to avocados comparison: The seas we experienced would have been a totally different ride with our former 46' stabilized trawler (about 25 tons). EVERY boat is a compromise and thus far we're fine with what we have.


Sistership:

 

[Steamboat]

You can look at this site, PDQ OWNERS FORUM - Index page for info on the PDQ power cats. The 32/34 have tight sleeping berths for older folks and engine access is under the berth. They do have a 41' for sale and they rarely come on the market. It is a much bigger boat but fits all your needs and includes a main deck level master stateroom with walk around queen berth.

 

[bumpkin]

To the OP, if you are following a couple's adventures and it sounds like something you would enjoy doing; go buy the boat, now. Your podcast will have told you about the worst the model, 34 PDQ, will throw at you on an ongoing basis, as well as the occasional excitement when the water is sporty.

If you are like 90+% of the boaters on the water and probably on this site, you will not go out during bad weather. So most of the handling drawbacks will only occasionally impact your enjoyment when weather changes while you are out.

Most of your responses are about perfection, on the water. Your first cruiser is about getting out there cruising. If you get out there and find your baby is the wrong format or boat for your adventure, sell it and pick a better suited one, but you will never know until you are on the water.

Hopefully, I will see you out here in your new (to you) PDQ.

Mike

 

[Duetto]

we've owned a pdq 34 for 19 years. we've lived on it for at least 6 months for 14 years and 9 months for 5 years. we've been to the bahamas and back 13 times, new england to fl/bahamas 5 times, been all over florida. over 19 years we've averaged 2.75 nm/g the majority of the time at 13.5-14 knots.

it has tremendous living accomodations for a 34' boat. 2 permanent queen size bunks. a dinette that knocks down to a king or seats 6 for dinner.

2.5' draft lets you go places others can't especially if weather turns bad.

minuses: 1) it does slap going into 3' or greater chop. 2) snap rolls in beam seas. our answer to both of these is pick your weather but if you pick wrong the boat will take it.
3) yes, it's not the perfect fishing platform but we snorkled for years with no problem.

for us it's been a near perfect boat.

 

[DavidU]

we've owned a pdq 34 for 19 years. we've lived on it for at least 6 months for 14 years and 9 months for 5 years. we've been to the bahamas and back 13 times, new england to fl/bahamas 5 times, been all over florida. over 19 years we've averaged 2.75 nm/g the majority of the time at 13.5-14 knots.

it has tremendous living accomodations for a 34' boat. 2 permanent queen size bunks. a dinette that knocks down to a king or seats 6 for dinner.

2.5' draft lets you go places others can't especially if weather turns bad.

minuses: 1) it does slap going into 3' or greater chop. 2) snap rolls in beam seas. our answer to both of these is pick your weather but if you pick wrong the boat will take it.
3) yes, it's not the perfect fishing platform but we snorkled for years with no problem.

for us it's been a near perfect boat.

John, thanks for the input. Just realizing I had not replied and thanked you for your input. Thank you.

My wife and I just had opportunity to see a 34 up close and were very impressed with everything it gives you in such a compact foot print. As we boat shop we would love to charter a PDQ somewhere in the US, Canada, Bahamas, or Caribbean.

Does anyone know where you can charter a PDQ power cat? Until this upcoming season, San Juan Sailing had a 34 available, but the owners have opted to remove from charter in 2024. That’s the only one I had found. If anyone knows of one bout anywhere, I’d sure love to know.

 

[Duetto]

hi,

give beth a try. if there's one out there she'll know.

beth@rhumblineyachtsales.com