Composting toilets
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If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
You have a friend who’s a surveyor, and instead of believing him you’re asking total strangers on the internet?
Alaskaflyer
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There have been several threads specifically about them, others regarding marine sanitation topics where they have been mentioned, if you want to do a search.
I have personally, um...patronized...them on a vessel, and have seen and checked out similar installations in houses, cabins and recreational vehicles. They are an elegant solution IMHO, though not everyone would agree with me. Also, an inexpensive solution to a potential plumbing problem on a boat.
They do require 12 volt DC to drive the small drying fan which operates constantly (with minimal current draw) and venting to the outside somewhere through a hose similar sized to a normal head plumbing hose.
Then there's the whole comfort thing, not only for family and other regular crew, but guests. Here in America we are just not accustomed to putting toilet paper anywhere but in the toilet bowl, and some see their manliness challenged by having to sit down to pee. This can be overcome by open, honest discussion during a passenger pre-trip briefing along with what to do in case of a fire alarm, and other emergency procedures
There's a boat I'm looking at that will need to be partially re-plumbed due to the Puget Sound sanitation regulations. I would put in a composting head instead in a heartbeat. I would commission my young son who has a real talent for art, as well as for mimicking my dry and wry humor, to produce a framed poster to mount above it for educating guests on its use.
Here's a Boating Magazine article I have saved on my computer, looking at some models, though it's now four years old. https://www.boatingmag.com/choosing-composting-marine-toilet/
I have personally, um...patronized...them on a vessel, and have seen and checked out similar installations in houses, cabins and recreational vehicles. They are an elegant solution IMHO, though not everyone would agree with me. Also, an inexpensive solution to a potential plumbing problem on a boat.
They do require 12 volt DC to drive the small drying fan which operates constantly (with minimal current draw) and venting to the outside somewhere through a hose similar sized to a normal head plumbing hose.
Then there's the whole comfort thing, not only for family and other regular crew, but guests. Here in America we are just not accustomed to putting toilet paper anywhere but in the toilet bowl, and some see their manliness challenged by having to sit down to pee. This can be overcome by open, honest discussion during a passenger pre-trip briefing along with what to do in case of a fire alarm, and other emergency procedures
There's a boat I'm looking at that will need to be partially re-plumbed due to the Puget Sound sanitation regulations. I would put in a composting head instead in a heartbeat. I would commission my young son who has a real talent for art, as well as for mimicking my dry and wry humor, to produce a framed poster to mount above it for educating guests on its use.
Here's a Boating Magazine article I have saved on my computer, looking at some models, though it's now four years old. https://www.boatingmag.com/choosing-composting-marine-toilet/
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firehoser75
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A good friend of mine has used a composting toilet on his RV (living full time in the RV) for several years. He swears by it (loves it).
Be aware, that in no discharge zones, dumping the urine overboard is technically illegal. It is not illegal to urinate directly overboard, but you could get charged with public nudity. With composting, you will have to store (dump) both the urine and the solids, but apparently the solid do not smell, and even if they do a bit, you could use an air tight container for temporary storage until you could deal with it properly. There is also the issue of storing "used toilet tissue".
Personally, I would not bother, as these heads are a bit pricey, and your boat already has a system that works.
Be aware, that in no discharge zones, dumping the urine overboard is technically illegal. It is not illegal to urinate directly overboard, but you could get charged with public nudity
. With composting, you will have to store (dump) both the urine and the solids, but apparently the solid do not smell, and even if they do a bit, you could use an air tight container for temporary storage until you could deal with it properly. There is also the issue of storing "used toilet tissue".Personally, I would not bother, as these heads are a bit pricey, and your boat already has a system that works.
markbarendt
Senior Member
Installed composting toilets in mine this winter and started using them a few weeks ago.
Used Natures Heads.
Very happy with losing the extraneous plumbing.
Very happy with eliminating some through hulls.
The toilets are pretty easy to use.
And yep, no smell.
Used Natures Heads.
Very happy with losing the extraneous plumbing.
Very happy with eliminating some through hulls.
The toilets are pretty easy to use.
And yep, no smell.
mvweebles
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I went with a Nature's Head composting head for my refit. I did a ton of research, and pinged a lot of users who are predominantly sailors.
1. Very, very few people who installed one decide to go back. I'd guess under 5%, but that might even be high.
2. There is an "ick" factor that put-off some people. They are rather bold in sharing their opinion. They have long lists of why it's an awful idea, including it's illegal to dump urine overboard. Given I live 20-mins away from the massive toxic waste dump going on right now in Tampa Bay, seems like a non-issue.
3. As far as handing, the waste, urine is more problematic than excrement.
4. Many people feel their conventional head systems are trouble-free. After 30-years of boat ownership, I simply do not agree. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but I decided a new approach.
5. We chose one because we will rarely have guests. We used to entertain on our boat a lot - up to 15-people aboard for fireworks, trips to Angel Island, etc. Compost head would NOT work for that usage.
Attached is a file I compiled of the responses I got. There are about 50-responses.
Peter
View attachment Sept 19 2019 Cruisers Forum Compost Head.pdf
1. Very, very few people who installed one decide to go back. I'd guess under 5%, but that might even be high.
2. There is an "ick" factor that put-off some people. They are rather bold in sharing their opinion. They have long lists of why it's an awful idea, including it's illegal to dump urine overboard. Given I live 20-mins away from the massive toxic waste dump going on right now in Tampa Bay, seems like a non-issue.
3. As far as handing, the waste, urine is more problematic than excrement.
4. Many people feel their conventional head systems are trouble-free. After 30-years of boat ownership, I simply do not agree. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but I decided a new approach.
5. We chose one because we will rarely have guests. We used to entertain on our boat a lot - up to 15-people aboard for fireworks, trips to Angel Island, etc. Compost head would NOT work for that usage.
Attached is a file I compiled of the responses I got. There are about 50-responses.
Peter
View attachment Sept 19 2019 Cruisers Forum Compost Head.pdf
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Everyone is allowed their own opinions. My wife and I think they’re gross. A show stopper on the last boat I made an offer on and I subtracted $1600 off the purchase price to cover replacement.
My previous vacu-flush was fantastic and I really love RV heads. Don’t like regular electric macerators. Refuse to have a human litter box onboard (composite).
IMO
My previous vacu-flush was fantastic and I really love RV heads. Don’t like regular electric macerators. Refuse to have a human litter box onboard (composite).
IMO
MurrayM
Guru
Thank you for that informative post concerning the OP's question.
Maybe I should start chiming in about how happy I am with our desiccating head on the dozens and dozens of threads about all the problems people have with their 'normal' marine heads
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catalinajack
Guru
Yes, the urine overboard issue. I have always wondered if there was some way of taking a poll that guaranteed anonymity, what the percentage would be of boaters who dump urine overboard regardless of location. Same as to emptying the tank in an active waterway. My guess is the percentage who do would be a surprising number. We have a rather large tank. Complying is not very inconvenient but folks with small holding tanks may be more challenged.
catalinajack
Guru
We have Marina Elegance macerating heads. No problems, ever. Now, vacuflush, maybe yes, plenty of problems. You will never hear of an owner of a Marine Elegance head complaining.
Thank you for that informative post concerning the OP's question.
Maybe I should start chiming in about how happy I am about our desiccating head on the dozens and dozens of threads about all the problems people have with their 'normal' marine heads
mvweebles
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Why is he nudging you towards composting head?
Personally, I think the ultimate setup would be a 2 head boat - one conventional, one composting. As mentioned, composting doesn't work well for a crowd, and there are people like Mako who find the idea repulsive. Having a split head setup would be best of both worlds.
Peter
MurrayM
Guru
Never is a strong word...
https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q="marine+elegance"+problems&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
...and it's connected to through hulls, vents, pump outs, holding tank, hose connections, gaskets, valves, etc...
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mvweebles
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I agree - I suspect there is a very large percentage of people who quietly discharge instead of finding a pumpout or venture outside the 3 mile limit.
I have no qualms about urine overboard. The other stuff is a different matter. I realize much of the world does not regulate discharge, but we do. My wife would shoot me if I discharged sewage. Going with a compost head solves that problem, though that was a side benefit, not the main reason. Unlike yourself, my relationship with head systems was rocky and tormented. I didn't cheap-out either: last system was a Groco Model K. Between hoses, tanks, maceration pumps, and head rebuilds, I finally said enough - there has to be a better way. Peggie Hall was generous with her time and I was close to going with an Eleganxe, but in the end, KISS won out.
Peter
firehoser75
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For those with 2 heads on their boats, Peter may be on to something, especially if your boat had a relatively small holding tank. Having the second head a composter could extend time between pumpouts?
markbarendt
Senior Member
It doesn't have to go overboard.
We have extra tanks so when at a marina I can simply walk one up to the bathroom along with my trash every few days.
Out on the Straight of Juan de Fuca or on anchor out on the Columbia River ... well the dilution ratio is huge.
Columbia River flow 160,000cfs=12,800,000 gallons per second
vs
1.157x10-5 gallons per second = 2 gallons per 172,800 seconds = 1 gallon per day
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For those with 2 heads on their boats, Peter may be on to something, especially if your boat had a relatively small holding tank. Having the second head a composter could extend time between pumpouts?
Our holding tank is in the bilge below the galley floor, just a few feet from the forward head. Though it is connected to the aft head as well as the fwd head, we discourage use of the aft head for anything serious, due to the length of the pipe, over 20' and the consequential volume of flush water required to transport the contents of the bowl all that distance is high. The holding tank needs to be emptied 3 or 4 times as often in that event.
When I get serious about upgrading the aft head, I will consider a composting unit. For now, though, it aint broke.
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Gone with the Wynns did a nice simplified overview of composting toilets several years ago when they were still RVing.
I definitely see the value especially when one has a small black water tank and the existing head uses fresh water!
Jim
I definitely see the value especially when one has a small black water tank and the existing head uses fresh water!
Jim
rsn48
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The Wynn's went composting in their motorhomes, then with their cat sailboat one is composting, what they use, and one is traditional, what their guests use. Below is a link I have plastered in many locations over the years.
The big significant difference between Airhead (what I have) and Nature Head (what the Wynn's have) is lid configuration. With Airhead, the lid et. al. lifts straight up, so to get at the urine tank, its easier with Airhead. With Nature's Head, the lid tilts back, eating into space needed for a head. So Airhead can be almost flush with the back bulkhead, Nature's Head it needs a couple of inches.
When (if) you purchase composting head, order one extra urine container. By the way, like many things in the commercial world, you are lied to, they aren't really composting heads, but more disenchant toilets. The poo goes in, separate from the urine (important), and the materiel (usually coconut coir) sucks out the liquid from the poo. Some of this liquid is held by the coconut coir and the rest goes into the air as vapour and is suck away by the fan which is constantly on. It takes about a year for the poo to actually break down. Watch the video:
PS: More sailboaters use them than power cruisers. This thread is from the cruising forum (sail) and has 394 posts, I'm betting by the time you finish reading all of those you'll be an expert:
Composting Toilet - Nature's Head - Cruisers & Sailing Forums
The big significant difference between Airhead (what I have) and Nature Head (what the Wynn's have) is lid configuration. With Airhead, the lid et. al. lifts straight up, so to get at the urine tank, its easier with Airhead. With Nature's Head, the lid tilts back, eating into space needed for a head. So Airhead can be almost flush with the back bulkhead, Nature's Head it needs a couple of inches.
When (if) you purchase composting head, order one extra urine container. By the way, like many things in the commercial world, you are lied to, they aren't really composting heads, but more disenchant toilets. The poo goes in, separate from the urine (important), and the materiel (usually coconut coir) sucks out the liquid from the poo. Some of this liquid is held by the coconut coir and the rest goes into the air as vapour and is suck away by the fan which is constantly on. It takes about a year for the poo to actually break down. Watch the video:
PS: More sailboaters use them than power cruisers. This thread is from the cruising forum (sail) and has 394 posts, I'm betting by the time you finish reading all of those you'll be an expert:
Composting Toilet - Nature's Head - Cruisers & Sailing Forums
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socalrider
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We have two airheads on our CHB41. I hate holding tanks; my wife has a very sensitive nose and we've never been on a boat with a holding tank that she couldn't sniff out. We have no such problems with the airheads. I know some people think they're gross, and they're not entirely wrong, but it's all relative right? Gross is repairing a macerator pump or a joker valve.
I just got back from a 2 week cruise with myself, my wife, and four kids. I don't know how many times we would have needed to pump out, but it would have been a lot.
I agree the pee tanks are the biggest pain & I've debated either plumbing them to a small holding tank or even (shh...) just routing them directly overboard. I don't feel any worse about doing that than I do peeing overboard. We dump them while in transit most of the time.
I just got back from a 2 week cruise with myself, my wife, and four kids. I don't know how many times we would have needed to pump out, but it would have been a lot.
I agree the pee tanks are the biggest pain & I've debated either plumbing them to a small holding tank or even (shh...) just routing them directly overboard. I don't feel any worse about doing that than I do peeing overboard. We dump them while in transit most of the time.
psneeld
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If there is a right answer from "other" people...good luck.
Some find one method gross in using it, others find the other gross in fixing it.
Using it it several times a day, fixing it can be many months in between. Calculate the "gross" factor.
Gross is in the "eye", or other senses of the participant.
So no right answer from others, only for yourself.
Study the "gross" factors and evaluate.
Some find one method gross in using it, others find the other gross in fixing it.
Using it it several times a day, fixing it can be many months in between. Calculate the "gross" factor.
Gross is in the "eye", or other senses of the participant.
So no right answer from others, only for yourself.
Study the "gross" factors and evaluate.
mvweebles
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I spent part of my youth working on a ranch and spent more than my fair share of time mucking stalls and cattle chutes. As I got older, I used to spend time in back-country places where primitive toilets were a luxury, and travel throughout Central America. Getting up-close with effluent is just the price of admission as part of experiencing places. Or stay home in a nice suburban house with a curated and sanitized experience. Sounds dull to me, but I guess my choices sound gross to them. Personal choice.
I don't find either the head or the plumbing gross, but they are messy to repair. Really messy that requires a heavy sanitizing clean-up. And for me, I find the system unreliable. The final straw for me was a couple years ago when I was about to leave for a 500 nm trip from San Francisco to Mexico with my wife and best friend aboard. A few days before departure on my 1-head boat, my macerator crapped out. Not a big deal - I bought a new macerator pump. It seemed to pump but would not prime. For a day, I chased all manner of install faults before I bought another pump. Yep, the first replacement was DOA.
On a holding-tank boat, losing ability to discharge is a real problem, which is why I agree with Catalinajack that many, many boaters likely dump where they shouldn't.
Peter
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I've had an Air Head for about four years now and love it! I will never pull any more strange things out of a vac u flush again!
MurrayM
Guru
Exactly. What humours me is how personally affronted someone can be on an online forum when someone chooses one of these heads for their boat. Relax already!
Here's part of the OP from a thread I started about this topic years ago:
The way I see it, it's all relative. Either you have teeny tiny incremental bits of gross, or you save it for months/years and then end up with an epic gross out fest.
The only difference being desiccating heads will not self destruct in the middle of an otherwise perfect cruise with family and friends aboard...so you'd better be able to fix it...fast...because the clock is ticking
psneeld
Guru
Failed head systems, properly made and installed are not a disgusting gooey mess and don't cause one even when repairing or replacing...
With valves in place, pans and towels used, wet vacs handy and just a tiny bit of brain power....no....they don't have to be disgusting or messy.
You might have to do it once to get it right and it' may be unpleasant...but after that ...it's your destiny.
So all the hoopla about which is more disgusting or better or anything can depend on a lot...mostly opinion. So form your own and I suggest as before...evaluate the possibilities and probabilities and let other's experiences be just that.
With valves in place, pans and towels used, wet vacs handy and just a tiny bit of brain power....no....they don't have to be disgusting or messy.
You might have to do it once to get it right and it' may be unpleasant...but after that ...it's your destiny.
So all the hoopla about which is more disgusting or better or anything can depend on a lot...mostly opinion. So form your own and I suggest as before...evaluate the possibilities and probabilities and let other's experiences be just that.
MurrayM
Guru
Ahhh, but there's the rub. Most of us did not buy our boats new.
Our previous owner built the head platform with supports on the sides and front, but the back of the platform rested on the outlet hose. It chose to pinch closed on a summer cruise holiday, in Gardner Canal (about as isolated as you can get on BC's north coast) with myself, my wife, our daughter, and one of her friends aboard.
Took some head scratching (with clean fingers) before it got figured out. Thankfully before anyone needed to use the head!
Did not appreciate the timing, as Gardner Canal is amazing to see (turquoise green glacial fed water & soaring cliffs) and I missed a good portion of it.
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psneeld
Guru
MurrayM
Guru
Just to be clear.....
Caught that. Glad you're comfortable with pans, towels, and wet vac's
Hopefully it's only needed once.
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I'm surprised at that pairing. Reason I say that is an RV head is basically just an outhouse, without the view. In other words, the cr-p drops straight into a hole. When you are done flushing, water covers the hole and acts like a trap. But when you are flushing, the hole is wide open.
Now I don't mind that because it has a huge advantage which is that you only need use the barest minimum of water to flush. No long hose runs to clear. Reason I commented is that I would have thought someone who felt a dessicating toilet was a "litter box," would also have hated cr-pping into an open hole (RV toilet).
I grew up with outhouses at cabins, and "log toilets" in camping areas, so I don't have any problem with either.
To the person who mentioned a urine holding tank: I thought about that too. Was close to buying a boat with a very small holding tank (and minimal stowage in general so didn't want to enlarge it). So I was thinking about a dessicating toilet but then could I plumb the urine to the original holding tank.
After thinking about it I realized there was a potential "gotcha" over the standard urine container they provide, and that was that you would have to use a reasonable amount of flush water to clear the trap and hoses each time. That would have made my theoretical urine holding tank about half the capacity, by my guestimation (due to the water).
OP: Why would a surveyor recommend a dessicating head? I mean, I would understand if they said what was wrong with your existing system, and here are several options to repair or replace (including a dessicating head). But to just suggest that only? I guess I like to know my options or the "whys" vs. "Buy a Ford" (or whatever).
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FF
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A very simple solution to macerator failure is to mount the unit at the bottom of the waste tank where the pump is never dry..
Paper or waste in tiny amounts can cause the pump to not be able to lift and begin pumping.
There are quality RV waste valves that do not leak and seal when closed , so when the pump wears out , not just fails removing it and replacing it is far less messy.
https://dupreeproducts.com/collections/valves
****
Composting heads are superb , but only for the folks that understand them.
Paper or waste in tiny amounts can cause the pump to not be able to lift and begin pumping.
There are quality RV waste valves that do not leak and seal when closed , so when the pump wears out , not just fails removing it and replacing it is far less messy.
https://dupreeproducts.com/collections/valves
****
Composting heads are superb , but only for the folks that understand them.
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