diesel heater choice

[dutch-barge]

we opted for a Kabola...Heating and hotwater combo

they have a nice air unit, really small, using the hot water to generate the hot air.

No need to buy a spare unit, because kabola is build to last

 

[paulga]

we opted for a Kabola...Heating and hotwater combo

they have a nice air unit, really small, using the hot water to generate the hot air.

No need to buy a spare unit, because kabola is build to last

it's a pretty big machine. suitable for bigger boats

 

[paulga]

You can be sure the internals are identical. The 4 vs 1 hot air vents is simply a different end piece molding. Focus on the peripherals. Focus on the controller. Does it have the features you want. Try to find out if it uses the universal motherboard. If it does replacing the controller is easy.

I see these have the soft green fuel line. Likely to cause problems. Plan on replacing with the nylon kind.

You're probably going to need longer exhaust tubing.

Understand it is not likely to produce 8 KW heat output. These are Espar D4 knockoffs. A D4 produces 4 KW heat.

I just bought an Hcalory 8 KW heater. No complaints so far but it's output is nowhere near the output of the 8 KW Espar in the boat.

Years ago I lived abroad in Seattle. During the relative to your location cold snaps the D4 knockoff I installed could heat one cabin at a time.

I bought a Hcalory 5kw heater. Did you mean it's a copy of Espar, not Webasto?

 

[Moonfish]

When living aboard in the winter, we leave our Wallas Spartan on 24/7. My understanding is turning diesel heater units on and off causes more soot to buildup in the burner assembly, thereby decreasing their efficiency. Of course, our unit is in the engine room so it's not very likely we would see any CO in our cabins if there was a leak.

Regarding the one or four outlet models, you can always put a "Y" in the single outlet ducting to branch off into other spaces.

 

[Portage_Bay]

I bought a Hcalory 5kw heater. Did you mean it's a copy of Espar, not Webasto?

I don't see a lot of difference between Espar and Webasto 4 KW units. I do see a lot of the Chinese knock offs claiming 5 KW even 8KW when the internals are so similar to the original 4 KWs to expect greater output will lead to disappointment. I have an Hclaory. It's a good unit as long as I don't expect greater output.

 

[paulga]

I don't see a lot of difference between Espar and Webasto 4 KW units. I do see a lot of the Chinese knock offs claiming 5 KW even 8KW when the internals are so similar to the original 4 KWs to expect greater output will lead to disappointment. I have an Hclaory. It's a good unit as long as I don't expect greater output.

This is the fuel system picture from the espar d4 manual
If this hcalory is a copy from d4, it likely uses the same fuel lines. Are these what you have used:

Suction side: 5mm rubber hose (9)
Pressure side: 3.5 mm rubber joining pieces (7) and 1.5 mm hard nylon line (8)

All these numbers are ID. 3.5mm should be the size of the fuel output on the pump and the intake nozzle on the heater. It seems that espar nylon line on the pressure end is 1.5 x4mm and webasto line is 2x5mm. I don't know if a 2x5mm line works here.

 

[Portage_Bay]

I'm not sure what problem you are trying to solve or question to have answered. If I am correct in thinking you are trying to setup the fuel lines on your Hcalory you will find numerous suppliers of the needed parts on Amazon and Ebay. Most list they fit both Espar and Webasto. The come with the nylon tubing, hose and clamps for connection. The are inexpensive and worth a try. If you want confirmation of what to use Hcalory has a support line. Contact Us - Hcalory Give them a try, they may help.

As for what I used I have not yet made any modifications to my Hcalory. I purchased one of the all-in-one heaters to test out heating my shop. It has the soft green fuel line that will fail. When it does I'll order one of the kits.

I will make the comment that while it is listed as an 8KW unit it does not produce anywhere near the heat the old Espar 8KW in the boat does. If / when the old Espar goes to the great beyond if I go the Chinese heater route it will require two to try to keep up with heat the Espar produces.

 

[paulga]

I'm not sure what problem you are trying to solve or question to have answered. If I am correct in thinking you are trying to setup the fuel lines on your Hcalory you will find numerous suppliers of the needed parts on Amazon and Ebay. Most list they fit both Espar and Webasto. The come with the nylon tubing, hose and clamps for connection. The are inexpensive and worth a try. If you want confirmation of what to use Hcalory has a support line. Contact Us - Hcalory Give them a try, they may help.

As for what I used I have not yet made any modifications to my Hcalory. I purchased one of the all-in-one heaters to test out heating my shop. It has the soft green fuel line that will fail. When it does I'll order one of the kits.

I will make the comment that while it is listed as an 8KW unit it does not produce anywhere near the heat the old Espar 8KW in the boat does. If / when the old Espar goes to the great beyond if I go the Chinese heater route it will require two to try to keep up with heat the Espar produces.

got it. what I bought is a standalone model. I have sent an email to Hcalory.

 

[paulga]

Marco,


I too saw the cast iron radiator video. Great idea, not gonna fit on a boat. I wonder if the condensation problem can be sloved by having the entire exhaust run slope down?

A quick search on 4" insulation ducting turns up a number of choices. For a new install insulated flex duct. Could be just the ticket.

@Portage_Bay can this flex duct work as insulation for the hot air hose?
the webasto thermoduct insulation has similar caliber/design, but costs ~6 times as much.

 

[Portage_Bay]

@Portage_Bay can this flex duct work as insulation for the hot air hose?
the webasto thermoduct insulation has similar caliber/design, but costs ~6 times as much.

Probably. The only way to know for sure is to buy it and try it.

 

[Marco Flamingo]

The insulated flex duct looks like it would be a lot easier to install than the stuff I used (assuming the stock heater ducting would fit inside it. I would also check the heat rating of the reflective mylar. The stuff I used can even handle the heat of the exhaust outlet.

When I was doing the HVAC on my house, various websites were not advocates of insulated flex ducting. Seems that the interior ridges and partial collapse on curves could cut way down on the flow volume. Better to use rigid duct and insulate on the outside. Not sure how much it matters on short runs, but keep in mind that the motor fan in diesel "parking" heaters is sized for relatively tiny distances.

 

[Irish Rambler]

I'm looking at a 8kw Chinese diesel heater brand that offers two configurations. The main difference b/t the two is: one has a large hot air outlet, remote control and LCD display, the other one has 4 smaller hot air outlets, no remote control, it has a knob thermostat instead of a LCD display.

the first configuration

View attachment 145288

View attachment 145289

the second configuration

View attachment 145290

View attachment 145291

is the type with 4 hot air outlets better? which one would you pick?

I would choose the one with the large outlet I would also choose the one with the facility to blow cold air. I see you have the Vevor but you can find them on Wish.com or Temu.com. The secret when installing any heater is to insulate the hot air pipes, ironically this costs more than the heater.

 

[SeaWoof]

We have a few of the Chinese heaters. A few things to note. One is that if using the provided translucent gas tanks (and lines), they should be covered up if mounted outside. Sunlight and diesel do not play well together and if you leave things for any amount of time, the diesel will degrade quite quickly leading to fuel issues.

And regarding fuel issues... best to have a spare fuel pump on hand. They are the main failure point of these heaters and if they get clogged by bad fuel (the filter on it is not really great) they are very difficult to clean. Easier to just pull the pump and toss a new one in.

The other thing to watch out for is voltage. The Chinese heaters are fickle when it comes to over voltage. It will be fine if you are powering it with 12v flooded / AGM batteries, but they really don't like the higher ~13v operating range of LiFePO4 / Lithium batteries and you will likely have to regulate the voltage somehow. We just use a 110 to 12v 15a inverter. It's not the most efficient method (dumb to be converting from 12v to 120 and back), but keeps the heaters happy.

 

[paulga]

We have a few of the Chinese heaters. A few things to note. One is that if using the provided translucent gas tanks (and lines), they should be covered up if mounted outside. Sunlight and diesel do not play well together and if you leave things for any amount of time, the diesel will degrade quite quickly leading to fuel issues.

And regarding fuel issues... best to have a spare fuel pump on hand. They are the main failure point of these heaters and if they get clogged by bad fuel (the filter on it is not really great) they are very difficult to clean. Easier to just pull the pump and toss a new one in.

The other thing to watch out for is voltage. The Chinese heaters are fickle when it comes to over voltage. It will be fine if you are powering it with 12v flooded / AGM batteries, but they really don't like the higher ~13v operating range of LiFePO4 / Lithium batteries and you will likely have to regulate the voltage somehow. We just use a 110 to 12v 15a inverter. It's not the most efficient method (dumb to be converting from 12v to 120 and back), but keeps the heaters happy.

The house batteries are Northstar nsbg31, also labeled agm31. But the voltage has always been near 13.4v. is this too high for the circuit board inside the heater?

 

[Irish Rambler]

We had a Chinese 5 Kw heater installed on a previous boat and an 8Kw on our current one. Lessons from our experience ?
The 5Kw and 8Kw are identical bodies, the difference is the 8Kw has a higher diesel fuel pump rating. We found the fuel pump was very noisy so we mounted it on a rubber 'P' bracket which isolates the noise. Be careful to mount the pump vertically to avoid air bubbles.
To reduce the pipework we chose the 8Kw with a large opening. ALL the pipework is insulated from the heater exit to the cabin outlets with 'clip on' insulation, either Webasto or Eberspacher dealers sell it (it's dearer than the heater) and it makes a considerable improvement on the outlet heat. Each cabin heat exit has a shut off flap valve so you can choose where to heat, some of the heat from the lower cabins will naturally rise to other parts of the interior. We found that along with a Webasto silencer (the most effective) fitted and by insulating the exhaust with fireproof lagging reduces the engine room heat (there's still enough heat loss to keep the engine room above freezing) and reduce exhaust noise for our neighbours.
We fitted the rotary knob heater control as the LCD backlights don't last very long and they are difficult to read and adjust.
As we do with everything on board, we K.I.S.S. We're not luddites by any means but can't justify the mental masturbation messing around if there's a simpler more effective solution.
Some folks love to lead complicated lives and have complicated systems, whatever floats your boat.
We love our boat and have a great affininty with her but first and foremost we regard our boat as a working tool, therefore it needs to be simply operated and utterly reliable under all conditions.
Apologies if some folk are annoyed by my staight talking but it eliminates any obfuscation and misunderstanding.

 

[Irish Rambler]

We have a few of the Chinese heaters. A few things to note. One is that if using the provided translucent gas tanks (and lines), they should be covered up if mounted outside. Sunlight and diesel do not play well together and if you leave things for any amount of time, the diesel will degrade quite quickly leading to fuel issues.

And regarding fuel issues... best to have a spare fuel pump on hand. They are the main failure point of these heaters and if they get clogged by bad fuel (the filter on it is not really great) they are very difficult to clean. Easier to just pull the pump and toss a new one in.

The other thing to watch out for is voltage. The Chinese heaters are fickle when it comes to over voltage. It will be fine if you are powering it with 12v flooded / AGM batteries, but they really don't like the higher ~13v operating range of LiFePO4 / Lithium batteries and you will likely have to regulate the voltage somehow. We just use a 110 to 12v 15a inverter. It's not the most efficient method (dumb to be converting from 12v to 120 and back), but keeps the heaters happy.

In fact if you use rebated agricultural diesel and place it in the sunlight the sun eliminates the dye. In Ireland the diesel is dyed green in Ireland (naturally) and red in UK/Europe. If there are any chemists reading this the dye used is called quentinrazahole and if you find some way to eliminate it this dye tell us all so we can all buy cheap diesel.

 

[dutch-barge]

We just use a 110 to 12v 15a inverter. It's not the most efficient method (dumb to be converting from 12v to 120 and back), but keeps the heaters happy.

why use an inverter...why not use a much better/ cheaper DC-DC converter

on our 24V boat I use small 24->12V DC-DC converters (60 W from Victron) for equipment like AIS, VHF etc much more efficient and cheaper

 

[paulga]

12v DC regulator has different sizes of output eg 10, 12, 20 amp. The starting amp of the heater is said to be about 10amp. Should a 12 amp regulator be sufficient?

Amazon.com

 

[Delta Riverat]

You have to feed that thing with 18 volts or it won't work.

How about just putting a standard silicon diode in series with the power wire, that will take off .7 volts.

 

[paulga]

You have to feed that thing with 18 volts or it won't work.

How about just putting a standard silicon diode in series with the power wire, that will take off .7 volts.

It would be interesting to test out the silicone diode.

Should this regulator work? Should it be wired after the rocker switch?

 

[paulga]

You have to feed that thing with 18 volts or it won't work.

How about just putting a standard silicon diode in series with the power wire, that will take off .7 volts.

The battery peak voltage was 14.2, with 0.7 taken off, there are still 13.5

 

[Delta Riverat]

That buck-boost unit should work.

 

[paulga]

That buck-boost unit should work.

Should it be connected using quick disconnect couplers or butt splicing connectors?

 

[luna]

Understanding that the market that these heaters are designed to serve is the Truck, RV and Marine markets you have to wonder why these heaters object to the the typical voltage variations found in these vehicles. Could it be a poor design or are they actually tolerant of the typical voltages?
I see that the current Hcalory F Series heater with it's 2025 upgraded motherboard touts 12 & 24 V input and over voltage protection. I wonder if there is any tight voltage regulation built in?

I firmly sit on the skeptical side when you read that "Fuel consumption is reduced to 0.04 gal/hour - 0.11 gal/hour, maximizing fuel performance and reducing energy wastage." and then in the very next sentence you read that "Equipped with a large 10L fuel tank for 10 hours of continuous heating."

As always, buyer beware.

 

[paulga]

Understanding that the market that these heaters are designed to serve is the Truck, RV and Marine markets you have to wonder why these heaters object to the the typical voltage variations found in these vehicles. Could it be a poor design or are they actually tolerant of the typical voltages?
I see that the current Hcalory F Series heater with it's 2025 upgraded motherboard touts 12 & 24 V input and over voltage protection. I wonder if there is any tight voltage regulation built in?

I firmly sit on the skeptical side when you read that "Fuel consumption is reduced to 0.04 gal/hour - 0.11 gal/hour, maximizing fuel performance and reducing energy wastage." and then in the very next sentence you read that "Equipped with a large 10L fuel tank for 10 hours of continuous heating."

As always, buyer beware.

it has proved success and market share. Plus I can use it as an exercise. It's better for me to mess up with a $80 heater than with a $2000 heater.

 

[SteveK]

..............
I firmly sit on the skeptical side when you read that "Fuel consumption is reduced to 0.04 gal/hour - 0.11 gal/hour, maximizing fuel performance and reducing energy wastage." and then in the very next sentence you read that "Equipped with a large 10L fuel tank for 10 hours of continuous heating."

As always, buyer beware.

No kidding, which is it? One litre per hour or 0.04-0.11 gal/hour.
Will a 10L tank last 10 hours or 25 hours of continuous use.

 

[Marco Flamingo]

These are thermostat controlled. Set it at 30F and you'll probably burn less than .11 gal/hour. Set it at 110F and you might burn a liter an hour. So both one liter and .11 gal/hr could be true. When connected to the boat's diesel tanks (300 gallons?), it really doesn't matter. I have a stand alone 2 gallon diesel tank for the heater in my C-dory and that lasted a year of boating (didn't run it over night). Fuel usage is the least of the concerns when installing a parking heater.

 

[luna]

Thermostatic control is common, my Espar and most Webasto and Wallace heaters have offered this feature for years. The difference is that the European guys have a return line on the fuel system which means that when there is no call for heat and the unit is energized, there is no fuel consumption. The fuel pump continues to run, the fuel never sees the nozzle and simply, by the return line, goes back into the tank.

The Chinese guys offer an economical product, but transfer the cost on to the user. They must burn the small amount of fuel used when no call for heat exists, otherwise with no return line it would end up on the floor. If there is no warm air delivery fan running the little bit of heat produced likely goes out the exhaust.
If we use an average fuel consumption of 0.075 gal/hr. when there is no call for heat and a duty cycle of 50%, energized 24/7, at $4.00 a gal, your unnecessary monthly fuel bill is about $108.00. (0.075 x12 x 30 x $4.00 = $108.00)

Easily fixed if the Chinese would improve the fuel pump, add a return line, a fuel solenoid, a robust spark generator & electrodes, plus whatever control is req'd. But that changes the price point!

Three years in, you could have easily spent in unnecessary fuel costs, the price of a well engineered heater.

 

[Bmarler]

Hmm, I’ve had webasto and espar heaters for decades. Both forced air and hydronic. None of these has had a fuel return line. If there’s no call for heat they do a shut down sequence. Restart as needed, and three or four different heat levels depending on how far from the temp setpoint you are.

 

[Marco Flamingo]

My Espar doesn't work that way. It shuts off when it reaches the set temp without the fuel pump continuing to run. But then when it fires up again, it needs to heat the glow plug for a minute at 9 amps, run at full tilt for a few minutes, then settles down to under 2A when running. Turns out that it is much more practical to just have my Chinese heater run at idle (and open a window if necessary). Because of the increased cycling and battery use of the Espar, I would have to run the main engine more often (or install a generator). Using logic similar to above, a generator would cost me $6,000, plus installation costs and diesel fuel to run my $1,000 Espar. My monthly heating cost for the Espar would be $680. My Chinese heater is the more practical and better engineered, assuming one can open a window.

When I purchased the Espar I looked online at the reviews and problems. One common problem was the unit coking up after running at low heat for extended periods. The best practices was to always crank the heat up and run it at full blast for a minute before shutting down. Otherwise, the reported removal and repair would be costly (more than the cost of my Chinese heater). My Chinese heater does this automatically when shut down, including heating the glow plug to make sure that the burn chamber is cleaned out every time. Has Espar copied the Chinese yet? Sounds like the European guys added a return line, electric solenoid, and other unnecessary stuff (for which they charge top dollar). Good for them.