Now I see why liveaboards get a bad rep

[Lostsailor13]

Moved my rig to her new summer spot at a marina that allows liveaboards,the marina and facilities are great,but there are a handful of derelict sailboats that are liveaboard as well,although I haven't spoken with them yet and more than likey will try to keep it that way,their boats are gross,I would imagine the inside is even worse,I pride myself in keeping my Willard ship shape,inside and out and you wouldn't even know it's a liveaboard by looking at it,a few bad apples ruin it for the rest of us respectable Mariners

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. L. I know what you mean about sailboats. Caves inside and stinky engines (seldom serviced). Ugly stick thingy stuck up to middle with way too many strings attached. Why can't they get proper motor boats? Disgusting. They have to keep ugly gas cans on deck, even. I hope I never have to talk to a sailor.

 

[hollywood8118]

Greetings,
Mr. L. I know what you mean about sailboats. Caves inside and stinky engines (seldom serviced). Ugly stick thingy stuck up to middle with way too many strings attached. Why can't they get proper motor boats? Disgusting. They have to keep ugly gas cans on deck, even. I hope I never have to talk to a sailor.

You forgot to mention the banging and whistling of all that sailboat stuff off the big stick thingy, and the general debauchery of the occupants.
Hollywood

 

[Arc]

You never know. You’re new sailboat neighbor may turn into a good friend. I try to be optimistic about all new greeting. Then it’s up to them to change my opinion

 

[kthoennes]

Believe me, really good and bad marina neighbors can live on either boat type. Personal experience. The stories I could tell on either side.

 

[HopCar]

I spent fifty years in the marine supply business. Don’t get me started on live aboard sailors. They get into it thinking it’s a cheap way to live and then spend years trying to prove it.

 

[tiltrider1]

In the past every time a marina raised its prices the quality of the neighborhood would go up. I hated the price hikes but I liked the fact that my worst neighbors moved out. Then around 2006 we hit a turning point. With every price hike the recreational boaters moved out and more non boating liveaboards moved in. It’s getting harder for the average boater to justify paying the cost of a one bedroom apartment for a place to park your boat. On the other hand the liveaboard crowd can easily justify it.

Like all things in life there are good liveaboards and bad ones. There is no theft on our dock as there is a liveaboard boat watching the dock ever 3rd slip. There are however two boats that are real eyesores. One power, one sail.

 

[Simi 60]

I spent fifty years in the marine supply business. Don’t get me started on live aboard sailors. They get into it thinking it’s a cheap way to live and then spend years trying to prove it.

Cheap compared to what?
A box under a bridge? Definately not
An average house in most cities? Quite possibly
A delapidated dog box in Sydney? Most definitely

Check Out This Dilapidated Sydney House That Sold For $1.96 Million
It was sold in 4 minutes

https://www.hit.com.au/story/check-out-this-dilapidated-sydney-house-that-sold-for-196-million-19702

 

[psneeld]

I think people are talking 2 different groups of sailors...really boaters in general in my experience.

So the chest puffing is maybe being offended without being in the trenches.

Funny thing....its true of people in life no matter who or where or what.......

 

[neworleansrich]

Maybe I'm lucky but I've never never met a liveaboard that wasn't helpful checking my boat when I'm not around or taking a phone call about my boat after a sudden squall, etc. Further, livaboards tend to be much more aware of the security of my boat and other people's boats (compared to the marina staff and guards). I consider them to be a marina assets and I'm alway interested in exchanging phone numbers with anyone who spends time in the marina.

Some livaboards may have lower standards of neatness or tend to expand their "household" onto the dock, but I'd much rather that than a sterile yachty uptight marina.

 

[psneeld]

Maybe I'm lucky but I've never never met a liveaboard that wasn't helpful checking my boat when I'm not around or taking a phone call about my boat after a sudden squall, etc. Further, livaboards tend to be much more aware of the security of my boat and other people's boats (compared to the marina staff and guards). I consider them to be a marina assets and I'm alway interested in exchanging phone numbers with anyone who spends time in the marina.

Some livaboards may have lower standards of neatness or tend to expand their "household" onto the dock, but I'd much rather that than a sterile yachty uptight marina.

Again...a different group of people living aboard as I took it from the OP.

Though I will say I have lived with dozens and there is not a clear cut one or the other. Different attributes are up and down various scales of everything from neatness to personality to trustworthiness.

 

[Kintala]

Greetings,
Mr. L. I know what you mean about sailboats. Caves inside and stinky engines (seldom serviced). Ugly stick thingy stuck up to middle with way too many strings attached. Why can't they get proper motor boats? Disgusting. They have to keep ugly gas cans on deck, even. I hope I never have to talk to a sailor.

Wow. Just wow. My husband and I cruised full time for six years on a Tartan 42. We were both retired from the aviation industry and kept our boat to aviation standards which, by the way, are substantially more rigorous than any yacht standards. We saw just as many derelict trawlers as we did sailboats. We met wonderful people on both, and the reality of it is that a significant portion of trawler owners are former sailboaters that moved to trawler because handling a sailboat underway is a phenomenal amount of work for aging bodies. We're now in the transition stage ourselves, looking for a trawler that we can afford. I promise you it won't be a Selene or Flemming, because we're not wealthy enough to afford one, but I also promise you that no matter how modest the boat, it will still be kept to aviation standards.

I'm hoping that your comment was facetious, not serious, because if it was serious then I guess I'm not sure what I'm doing in this forum.

 

[Pau Hana]

Wow. Just wow. My husband and I cruised full time for six years on a Tartan 42. We were both retired from the aviation industry and kept our boat to aviation standards which, by the way, are substantially more rigorous than any yacht standards. We saw just as many derelict trawlers as we did sailboats. We met wonderful people on both, and the reality of it is that a significant portion of trawler owners are former sailboaters that moved to trawler because handling a sailboat underway is a phenomenal amount of work for aging bodies. We're now in the transition stage ourselves, looking for a trawler that we can afford. I promise you it won't be a Selene or Flemming, because we're not wealthy enough to afford one, but I also promise you that no matter how modest the boat, it will still be kept to aviation standards.

I'm hoping that your comment was facetious, not serious, because if it was serious then I guess I'm not sure what I'm doing in this forum.

RTF is the forum "class clown"- please don't be offended by his humor. He is about a malicious as a feather...unless you're allergic to feathers.

 

[HopCar]

Wow. Just wow. My husband and I cruised full time for six years on a Tartan 42. We were both retired from the aviation industry and kept our boat to aviation standards which, by the way, are substantially more rigorous than any yacht standards. We saw just as many derelict trawlers as we did sailboats. We met wonderful people on both, and the reality of it is that a significant portion of trawler owners are former sailboaters that moved to trawler because handling a sailboat underway is a phenomenal amount of work for aging bodies. We're now in the transition stage ourselves, looking for a trawler that we can afford. I promise you it won't be a Selene or Flemming, because we're not wealthy enough to afford one, but I also promise you that no matter how modest the boat, it will still be kept to aviation standards.

I'm hoping that your comment was facetious, not serious, because if it was serious then I guess I'm not sure what I'm doing in this forum.

Sailing cruisers are fine people who know the value of maintaining their boats.

What drives me crazy are the people who buy a junk boat, don’t even try to fix it up and expect to live on it for free. They anchor where ever it’s free, clog up dinghy docks, and take free water. Since they never dock the boat, you know their sewage is going into the anchorage. Their attitude is the wind is free and everything else should be. Their boats are eye sores that usually end up sunk and abandoned for the local community to deal with.

It happens with power boats too, but is much more common with sailboats.

 

[Alaskaflyer]

Hey Kintala, what is “aviation standard”? Now, I spent a lot of time in Alaska whilst flying, obviously, and so my calibration might be different than yours, but up there I wouldn’t see aviation standards as a shining example of anything other than a much longer list of rigorous regulations to skirt and skimp

Just kidding of course. My wife would wish I spent the time on the house that I did cleaning and maintaining the boat. Or the (former) airplanes for that matter.

PS I second the comment on RTF. He’s very helpful when not joking

 

[Gdavid]

Running a marina and keeping derelict boats out is a tough assignment especially if it has been poorly managed in the past and has a number of boats with unpaid dockage and non-responsive owners. With liveaboard, at least the marina management can track them down to follow up on fees or maintenance issues.

If it is a nice marina that can keep it's fees pretty high, it will discourage derelicts. My marina is well run and has a nice balance of liveaboards. So far, every one I have met seems friendly and I hope to ingratiate myself to them, hopefully they will let me know if anything is amiss. With so many people working remotely right now, there is an influx of working professionals who can cruise full time or liveaboard in a marina, as long as they have reliable internet.

A liveaboard will be the first to notify marina management if the power is out on your pier and hopefully notice the boat with the constantly running bilge pump in a timely manner.

 

[RickyD]

We have derelicts in our marina as well. Even my dock. One junky live-aboard cruiser. The bulk are unused sail boats mostly with some unused power boats. Some are rotting and I wonder how someone pays $500 per month to let their boat rot. One boat I have had to tie their dock lines together a couple times as they have parted with no owner looking. Decks are turning green, lines rotting, wood rotting. Unbelievable. There is an old wooden sailboat with peeling old varnish. Last summer the owners, an older couple, came and were scraping off the old varnish. I thought, great they are going to fix her up. Nope scraped and left for another year.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Ms. K. Trust me. You're in the right place. My comment was about as sarcastic as I could get without being outright rude.


I, unfortunately, do not posses the "bad apple" radar that the OP seems to be using.

As far as the deprecating remarks thrust in my general direction... I call them as I see them.

I DO have a viable excuse...

 

[JLD]

Going back to the original post, maybe the issue is more the fault of the marina, than the boaters.

A lot of the marina rules I have read say something like - Vessels are to be maintained in good mechanical and aesthetic condition at all times.

Jim

 

[Benthic2]

You can't blame people for trying to do as little as possible. There is a certain percentage of the population that will always aim for the minimum standard that has been defined for them. The responsibility falls to marina management. There need to be rules limiting what you can leave on the dock to a set of stairs and a dock box. There should be rules requiring a boat be away from the slip for a minimum of a few hours per month to keep all boats operational. A phone number on file for someone who can respond with in 24 hours when called, and lastly, some process for complaints to have real consequences. If a petition is presented with "X" signatures that your boat is an eyesore, you have 30 days to make it right, or an escalaliting fine is applied. Yes, I know this will create awkward and uncomfortable situations for marina management, but you pay them to ensure you have a good boating experience. If you live next to a slob with a smokey grill, loud stereo and clanging halyards, you are not having a good experience and management has to step up. Its no different than calling the front desk when the hotel room next to you is partying all night.

 

[Lou_tribal]

This remind me of a guy in my previous marin with a 20 to 25 boat with outboard motor names "belle coque". The boat was not shining in an way. The blue hull had it color fading and chalking, the anchor roller was custom made with plywood not even painted etc but I always found it was a cute little boat. People at the marina, and even marina owners, were often kidding about it, if not bashing. Yes it was not one of this shiny cruiser with loud hifi, lights and jet set appealing, but that guy was out on the water every weekend if not every day, spending nights aboard, far more than these so called mariners that were mostly there to show off their wallet with a shiny well waxed boats...

Look at fishing boats, there are rarely shining and often a bit rusty here and there, but damned that they are good at sea!

L

 

[PM]

I refuse to get into bashing sailboaters, liveaboards or fishermen. Every ilk has good members and bad members.

I can cite stories of smelly boats, loud music and noise, rattling stays and creaky fenders. Barking dogs, late and early arrivals, poor seamanship, and the list goes on and on.

Probably half and half, Motor boaters vs sailboaters.

pete

 

[psneeld]

Think of all the posts about marinas stepping up to admit to damaging a boat.....and they don't.

Think they care about eyesores if the rent is paid on time?

 

[markpierce]

Here there are many more sailboats than motorboats, so naturally there are more derelict sailboats than motorboats. ... Sailboaters are more dreamers than motorboaters, which would contribute to a higher proportion of derelict sailboats?

 

[Lepke]

Some people wash their car every day and some don't. Same with boats. Cluttered decks and docks are a hazard in any emergency and should be enforced by the marina. If you don't like your neighbors neatness, leave, join a yacht club.
Some people have lots of money and some don't. But they all get to enjoy the water.

 

[Leo Reise]

By way of commnet - observation - ex-sailor -and sit on the Board of Directors for our club. Our club allows live-a-boards. We have a limit of 12. We are the only one in our area (next one is 30 to 40 miles away). They must belong to the club to stay on our docks. Appearance is tightly controlled. It has not happened (yet) but the club reserves the right to not renew a slp contract. A couple of years ago a warning was given to one boat - it was interesting to watch the change. We have had 3 boats leave over the years because our rules were too demanding. So, in my opinion, if there is a problem, it would be the club or marina that did not set and maintain a standard.
Just my thoughts

 

[Group9]

Going back to the original post, maybe the issue is more the fault of the marina, than the boaters.

A lot of the marina rules I have read say something like - Vessels are to be maintained in good mechanical and aesthetic condition at all times.

Jim

When I moved to Miami, and hadn't bought my new house, yet, I asked my harbormaster at my marina there, if it was okay if I lived on my boat for a few months.

He told me that I could live on it as long as it didn't look like I was living on it.

 

[Todd727]

Greetings,
Ms. K. Trust me. You're in the right place. My comment was about as sarcastic as I could get without being outright rude.

It was clearly sarcastic and funny. Unfortunately, a lot of people have lost there sense of humor these days and WANT to be offended.

Along those lines, the OP merely stated that the boats he saw were sailboats. A LOT of people here took that to be him slamming sailors, sailing and sailboats, when I believe it was just a statement of fact. Others seemed to feel he was being prejudicial against that group.

Oh well, #makecomedylegalagain! You sir did a fine job of making us laugh.

 

[slowgoesit]

Hey Kintala, what is “aviation standard”? Now, I spent a lot of time in Alaska whilst flying, obviously, and so my calibration might be different than yours, but up there I wouldn’t see aviation standards as a shining example of anything other than a much longer list of rigorous regulations to skirt and skimp

Just kidding of course. My wife would wish I spent the time on the house that I did cleaning and maintaining the boat. Or the (former) airplanes for that matter.

PS I second the comment on RTF. He’s very helpful when not joking

Aviation Standard means you use .040" SS Safety wire instead of baling wire!

 

[catalinajack]

A rule requiring boat to be away from the dock a few hours EACH month? Wholly impractical for most boaters. Just think about how many folks are not resident close to their boats. They keep their boats stored in the water and, in the winter months, winterized, yes, for months at a time. So, you would have these folks to commission their boats each month?! And, then re-winterize? Once a month?? I think sir, you did not think this through very well.

You can't blame people for trying to do as little as possible. There is a certain percentage of the population that will always aim for the minimum standard that has been defined for them. The responsibility falls to marina management. There need to be rules limiting what you can leave on the dock to a set of stairs and a dock box. There should be rules requiring a boat be away from the slip for a minimum of a few hours per month to keep all boats operational. A phone number on file for someone who can respond with in 24 hours when called, and lastly, some process for complaints to have real consequences. If a petition is presented with "X" signatures that your boat is an eyesore, you have 30 days to make it right, or an escalaliting fine is applied. Yes, I know this will create awkward and uncomfortable situations for marina management, but you pay them to ensure you have a good boating experience. If you live next to a slob with a smokey grill, loud stereo and clanging halyards, you are not having a good experience and management has to step up. Its no different than calling the front desk when the hotel room next to you is partying all night.