Jabsco Deluxe Flush Electric not flushing

[HeadedToTexas]

The raw water pump runs and the flush pump runs, but the bowl does not empty. None of the bowl contents appear clog-worthy. The 30 gallon holding tank is nearly empty.

What am I missing? Oh, and it's howling 30 knots from the northeast here in western Lake Erie.

 

[HeadMistress]

I found the owners manual for the Deluxe Flush, but no trouble shooting help beyond the 3 possibilities at the bottom of the last page of the owners manual Jabsco Deluxe Flush owners manual

A blocked tank vent is the most common reason for flushes that fail to go anywhere, so that's the first thing I'd check. The vent thru-hull is where 99% of vent blockages occur. Mud dauber nests are likely in the spring.

If the vent is clear and the flush panel installations in the owners manual don't offer a solution, you need to talk to Jabsco's toilet guru Paul Campagna. His direct line is 978.282.5246. That may require some effort and patience on the Friday before a 3 day weekend.

--Peggie

 

[HeadedToTexas]

Thank you, Peggie.

On a related note, why does the bowl drain sometimes, but retain liquid other times? I almost never intentionally leave it dry, but starting this spring it has started draining on its own at times.

 

[HeadMistress]

If you've owned it more than a year and have never replaced the joker valve, replacing it should solve that problem. Waste going through it stretches the slit, gradually turning it into a hole. Sea water mineral buildup on a joker valve can prevent it from closing. All of which explains why joker valves in all toilets should be replaced at least annually...every six months if you're a live-aboard.



--Peggie

 

[HeadedToTexas]

Amen to that. I have one, but have not installed it thinking I should wait for a problem. Guess I found it. Even better, replace it before the problem occurs. Makes a lot of sense. I did talk with Paul Campagna and he was a big help too. You guys are the best. Thank you!

 

[HeadedToTexas]

So (unfortunately) an unaware user created a new clog in this head before I was able to replace the joker valve. I patiently waited for the clog to dissolve or soften as it did the first time, but it failed to do so and I am now faced with the unenviable task of dealing with a bowl full of stinky fluid.

My 30 gallon holding tank meter is less than inspiring, but I am convinced that the tank is not full as the aft head flushes without problem and the vent/overflow is dry. I am also convinced that the vent is not clogged as flushing produces a foul odor for a few minutes after each flushing.

While I could shop vac the stinky fluid out, I wonder why I can't gently plunger the clog down through the macerator to both clear the clog and prime the pump?

 

[HeadMistress]

I'd bet real money that your "unaware user" flushed a wet wipe...they don't dissolve nor can a macerator blade shred them. It's unlikely that you'll be able to plunge it out because it it's almost certain to be wrapped around the macerator blade...leaving you with the unenviable task of shop vac-ing the contents out of the bowl and then opening up the pump assembly to remove it.

If it's any consolation, you're far from the first boat owner who's had to deal with removing a wet wipe from a macerating electric toilet. So I'm fairly certain you'll get some how-to advice from others here.

--Peggie

 

[Comodave]

Sell the boat???

 

[HopCar]

You say the discharge pump runs and you’ve established that the tank vent is clear.
Once you deal with the current problem in the bowl, you might want to check that the hose between the toilet and tank is clear. Can you run a snake through it?
If that is clear I bet the impeller/chopper (#18) has come loose from the shaft for some reason.

If it were me I’d follow Comodave’s advice.

 

[HeadMistress]

If it were me I’d follow Comodave’s advice./QUOTE]


<LOL>!!

 

[HeadedToTexas]

My unaware user swears she did not use wet wipes and that there is only a few squares of TP and "natural waste" in the bowl. I believe her as she has a strongly vested interest in the heads working.

So is that a yes on cautiously trying a plunger to help move the clog toward the macerator?

 

[Comodave]

If that is all that went into the head, then I might give the plunger a try. Then put the boat up for sale...

 

[HeadedToTexas]

Roger that. Thanks Dave.

 

[HeadMistress]

Plunging marine toilets isn't recommended...and I'm not sure what you mean by "move the clog toward the macerator." 'Cuz even if it isn't a wet wipe, SOMEthing went down the toilet that shouldn't have (maybe fell in?). Do you have an owners manual for the toilet? There's an exploded drawing of it that you prob'ly should look at to see what's where and the most likely place for something to get stuck. For all you know it may have made it past the macerator blade...or may even have made through the toilet and is stuck in the toilet discharge line.


--Peggie

 

[Comodave]

Just kidding about selling the boat, but maybe would give it a thought with what you have to deal with. But I suspect it may put off potential buyers...

 

[OldDan1943]

Rule #1: explain the head, what goes in, before showing them where the life jackets are stored.

 

[ranger58sb]

The raw water pump runs and the flush pump runs, but the bowl does not empty. None of the bowl contents appear clog-worthy. The 30 gallon holding tank is nearly empty.

You might try some Sew Clean. If the discharge line is clogged with uric acid crystals, the symptom could be sorta-kinda what you're seeing. (Assuming vent not clogged, holding tank empty, etc etc etc.)

I disconnected our discharge line once, I think it was while swapping pump motor on the toilet... and I guess everything inside dried out to "rock hard" during the extra day or so that line was open. Not knowing that, I reconnected, tried to flush, nada. Tried a snake through the discharge line (not through the toilet), nada. Eventually used Barnacle Buster (that I had on hand) diluted to the Sew Clean ratio (per Trac), couple hours later the line was clean.

-Chris

 

[HeadedToTexas]

I am not 100% sure I am reading the clues correctly. I believe the holding tank is not full since the aft head still flushes and the overflow is dry, though that could be a clogged vent and a working joker valve on the aft head. I also believe the vent is open because it produces a fouls smell after each flush.

Time liquified the clog to the point that it flushed, but I was greeted by the bowl filling with black anaerobic stink water after I stopped the macerator motor. There is no more than 3 feet of sewage hose between the head and the point where it enters the holding tank, so it must be pumping the bowl contents into the holding tank under pressure which then pushes it back through what I imagine is a thoroughly calcified joker valve. All that makes it pretty clear that the vent is not clear, yes?

What is the orange filter device at the upper left corner of the attached picture?

Given the uncertainty about the holding tank level, it seems prudent to pump out before doing much more. Fingers are crossed.

 

[HeadMistress]

Time liquified the clog to the point that it flushed, but I was greeted by the bowl filling with black anaerobic stink water after I stopped the macerator motor.

That's a very strong indication of blocked tank vent.

Given the uncertainty about the holding tank level, it seems prudent to pump out before doing much more.

Attempting to pump out will reveal whether the tank vent is blocked. If it is, the pumpout will only be able to pull out a couple of gallons before it pulls a vacuum that prevents it from removing any more. So pay very close attention to the sight glass in the pumpout line to se how long anything is moving through it. If very little, cease pumpout immediately to avoid letting the suction implode your tank. Also have someone paying close attention to both your toilets. If they hear any hissing in one or both of them during pumpout, that's a sure sign of a blocked tank vent...the tank is trying to pull in air from any source it can find.

I have no idea what that orange thing is...I don't think it's a vent line filter 'cuz no hose exits from it (or maybe enters it...impossible to tell what the direction of flow is) but I can see that there's a kink where it dips behind the white hose and that a black hose is teed into it that wanders off across the ceiling to disappear into a manifold connecting two larger diameter hoses.

I'm more interested in knowing what's at the other end of the hose that runs under that hose and terminates in a fitting in the bulkhead.

--Peggie

 

[ranger58sb]

What is the orange filter device at the upper left corner of the attached picture?

Looks like a filter housing, to me, but doesn't look like anything I've seen connected to a holding tank air vent before. Looks more like a design for filtering water.

If it's meant to be a holding tank vent filter, it would have an innie and an outie. And I think I can make out there are two hoses attached to the top, one with the kink and the attachment to black hose that wanders off... the second connected to the orange thing but behind the first. I can't otherwise make much sense out of it...

Anyway, the innie would come from high up on the holding tank. The outie would go to a hole in the hull. The hole in the hull is what often gets clogged (per Peggie) with bugs or other critters, debris, whatever. Or the filter element itself, inside the canister, could be all hosed up from overfilling.

If you can trace those innie/outie hoses -- from source and to destination -- you might be able to determine whether the orange thing is meant as a vent filter... or if not, you might be able to get a sense of whatever else it might be for.

-Chris

 

[HeadedToTexas]

Plunging marine toilets isn't recommended...and I'm not sure what you mean by "move the clog toward the macerator." 'Cuz even if it isn't a wet wipe, SOMEthing went down the toilet that shouldn't have (maybe fell in?). Do you have an owners manual for the toilet? There's an exploded drawing of it that you prob'ly should look at to see what's where and the most likely place for something to get stuck. For all you know it may have made it past the macerator blade...or may even have made through the toilet and is stuck in the toilet discharge line.


--Peggie

I do have the manual and did study the diagram. While I sure wish I had your experience while wrestling with it, I remain pretty sure I understand what was going on. At the bottom of the bowl is an elbow that leads into the macerator inlet. The discharge from the macerator pump feeds through the joker valve and on to the holding tank.

If the clog had been past the macerator pump and the macerator impeller "teeth" were in contact with the bowl contents, it would eventually swirl in the bowl. The contents of the bowl were not swirling on June 6th, but I was back at the boat on the 9th and overnight the bowl contents liquified to the point that they did swirl when a ran the macerator pump. The ex-clog moved on and into the holding tank over the course of 45 seconds or so.

Interestingly, the sewage line from the joker valve to the holding tank is clean and new suggesting that it has been replaced recently, or at least it is newer than the original hoses on my 2007 boat.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

Time liquified the clog to the point that it flushed, but I was greeted by the bowl filling with black anaerobic stink water after I stopped the macerator motor.

That's a very strong indication of blocked tank vent.

Given the uncertainty about the holding tank level, it seems prudent to pump out before doing much more.

Attempting to pump out will reveal whether the tank vent is blocked. If it is, the pumpout will only be able to pull out a couple of gallons before it pulls a vacuum that prevents it from removing any more. So pay very close attention to the sight glass in the pumpout line to se how long anything is moving through it. If very little, cease pumpout immediately to avoid letting the suction implode your tank. Also have someone paying close attention to both your toilets. If they hear any hissing in one or both of them during pumpout, that's a sure sign of a blocked tank vent...the tank is trying to pull in air from any source it can find.

I have no idea what that orange thing is...I don't think it's a vent line filter 'cuz no hose exits from it (or maybe enters it...impossible to tell what the direction of flow is) but I can see that there's a kink where it dips behind the white hose and that a black hose is teed into it that wanders off across the ceiling to disappear into a manifold connecting two larger diameter hoses.

I'm more interested in knowing what's at the other end of the hose that runs under that hose and terminates in a fitting in the bulkhead.

--Peggie

Sorry for the poor photo. I have a (slightly) better and annotated version below. The orange housing does have both an inlet and outlet. The inlet is a 10' section of ½" hose from the top vent of the holding tank. In the last foot or two before the inlet fitting there is a very thin (maybe ¼") steel sweep tee where a hose from the siphon break from the holding tank macerator pump joins (for pumping overboard; being in Lake Erie, it will be a long time before I have a chance to use that). The outlet side of the orange housing is connected to the through hull fitting which is two feet above the water line.

There is no kink in the hose. They do cross and that makes following them in the relatively low resolution photo difficult.

I was able to pump out yesterday without incident, though the head gurgled air when the vacuum was on. The holding tank vent through hull made no discernible noise. I did note that flushing the aft head produced a noticeable stink where flushing the forward head produce nothing I could notice. Odd, since there is only one vent and that comes directly from the holding tank.

The forward head (which is the one in this conversation so far) is a Jabsco. The aft head is a Raritan. The Jabsco takes 30 seconds to pump 2 gallons of fresh water into an empty holding tank where the Raritan takes just 6 seconds. Guessing that is the source of the difference in the stink each produces at the through hull vent.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

So yesterday I pumped out the holding tank and flushed it twice with 20 gallons of fresh water. Still runs black, but it's all as clean as it is likely to get. Now is the time to replace the joker valves. Do Jabsco and Raritan heads use the same joker valves?

It is also time to clean the tank vent. My plan is to remove the orange thing and clean up the hoses to minimize bends and unnecessary tubing. I can "easily" remove both ends of the ½" vent hose (at the tank and at the through hull). If I'm lucky, I can just run some water from the hose through that to clean it out, but if I am not lucky, what is the best technique to clean a clogged holding tank vent hose?

And on a related note, what is the white box in the picture of my holding tank below?

 

[Bacchus]

I'm just now reading through your quest so late to the action. With your latest photo & clarification the first thing I would do is get that vent filter out of the vent line. While doing it it will provide to verify the vent is clear in both directions.
Is your tank vent fitting at the tank be,or the level of the long horizontal run or is that a low spot that can fill with liquid? If a low spot that needs to be eliminated.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

The tank is a few inches below the long horizontal run of hose. Not hard to see liquid entering the vent hose and festering or growing stuff in the hose. Would it be smarter to either run the hose vertically to the "ceiling" of the engine room before going horizontal over to the port hull, or run it up diagonally from the vent fitting on the tank to the through hull with a constant rise? Both are doable.

 

[ranger58sb]

In the last foot or two before the inlet fitting there is a very thin (maybe ¼") steel sweep tee where a hose from the siphon break from the holding tank macerator pump joins (for pumping overboard; being in Lake Erie, it will be a long time before I have a chance to use that).

I dunno what that siphon break is for; we never had anything like that.

It is also time to clean the tank vent. My plan is to remove the orange thing and clean up the hoses to minimize bends and unnecessary tubing. I can "easily" remove both ends of the ½" vent hose (at the tank and at the through hull). If I'm lucky, I can just run some water from the hose through that to clean it out, but if I am not lucky, what is the best technique to clean a clogged holding tank vent hose?

And on a related note, what is the white box in the picture of my holding tank below?

Looks to me like you could bag the orange thing -- and maybe that T and siphon break (whatever that's for) -- and run the vent hose from the top of the tank directly to the through hull. Maybe or maybe not ever retro-install an inline vent filter -- purpose made, probably not like the orange thing if you ever find it necessary. Although Peggie will say "No!"

Technique: 1) Replace with new hose. 2) Sew Clean. FWIW, the hose pictured from top of tank looks different (to me) than the hose in the other pic with the orange thing. The pic on top of tank makes it look like not great hose and if so, better hose would be better.

No clue about the white box.

Looks like your holding tank sensor is a WEMA/KUS product. Relatively easy to clean occasionally, when necessary (symptom is the float sticks).

-Chris

 

[Bacchus]

White "box" appears to be a Simrad Flux gate compass for an autopilot system
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/simrad...ap28-autopilots-white/2396449.p?skuId=2396449
I will guess it is mounted on the boat centerline and low in the bilge...

Good plan cleaning up the vent hosing as much as
possible.
If you see continued black water with flushing holding tank you likely have a layer of sludge built up in the tank.
Sodium percarbonate or NoFlex use with a small dose of detergent over time should help clean it up and keep it clean. If you get tank vent odors after routing the vent as short and straight as possible and using a mushroom thruhull and not a typical baffled fuel vent we can talk about holding tank bubbling. I have been running an ice pensive DIY bubbler for many years and very pleased with performance.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

Bingo. Thanks, Don. Interesting site for the compass. Convenient access, I guess.

This is what my holding tank vent through hull looks like. Can't say what's growing in or living in it yet, but I'll know soon. And I'm guessing I'll own some NoFlex soon too.

 

[Bacchus]

Those TH ftgs don't work well for holding tanks. If you can remove the guts and leave an open shot through it could work. If not I'd replace it. Larger is better and best if the vent hose slopes down to the tank with no sags / low spots. That way you can shoot a water hose into the fitting from the outside periodically to make sure its is open and flush any insects, mud daubers, etc

Here's a thread from Ted... OC Diver.... that covers the use of sodium percarbonate for cleaning holding tank very well.
https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46357

 

[Andiamo2018]

If you've owned it more than a year and have never replaced the joker valve, replacing it should solve that problem. Waste going through it stretches the slit, gradually turning it into a hole. Sea water mineral buildup on a joker valve can prevent it from closing. All of which explains why joker valves in all toilets should be replaced at least annually...every six months if you're a live-aboard.



--Peggie

If you don't care that your bowl does or does not hold water what other things can a worn joker valve do?

I had a clogged head. Drove the boat over to the pump out station and while pumping out I blocked the air vent - sucked everything clear.