Jabsco Deluxe Flush Electric not flushing

[HeadedToTexas]

So the orange thing turned out to be a filter. It’s gone now and the vent hose has a uniform rise all the way to the high point where it turns down into the through hull. After the thorough pump out and rinse, I felt pretty good.

The spare joker valve turned out to be for our Raritan SeaEra in the day head, but I found one for the Jabsco at West Marine. For better or worse, this is getting the best of me. Access to the joker valve housing requires pulling the entire head and disconnecting it from both the raw water inlet and 1” hose to the holding tank. I also discovered a 50% kink in the black hose between the discharge of the pump and the transition to 1” sewage hose. WTF?

Worse, it is back to not flushing. This time there is nothing but urine and lake water in the bowl. The macerator has what sounds like chunks of calcium rattling around in the macerator, so I added a cup of muriatic acid. Now there is about a half gallon mixture of urine, lake water, and acid. Smells like hell.

I have lost a lot of faith in Jabsco, but I am hoping Paul can talk me off the ledge Monday morning. If not, there will be a fairly well used Jabsco Deluxe head in the dumpster before next weekend. What am I missing?

 

[Comodave]

A couple of things. Is it possible to put in a bigger hose on the vent. Air in the holding tank is your friend. I would replace the through hull in the ven line with a plain mushroom through hull. That way you can backflush the vent hose when you pump out. The filter will just plug and also stop air flow in and out of the tank which will promote anerobic bacteria which stink, a lot, remember air is your friend. And lastly replace the head with a Raritan Marine Elegance, best head on the market. I like the fresh water flush version and the Smart Flush Panel. Also the ME head has the option to use 1” discharge hose instead of 1.5” so it doesn’t take as much water to flush the hose clean. If you have to replace the holding tank hoses use Raritan SaniFlex. Great hose and very flexible. Defender sells it by the foot and has the best pricing I have found on it.

 

[HeadMistress]

Access to the joker valve housing requires pulling the entire head and disconnecting it from both the raw water inlet and 1” hose to the holding tank.

That's totally nuts!! And I wouldn't have believed all that could possibly be necessary just to replace a joker valve till I checked the exploded drawing and parts list in the owners manual for that toilet and saw that it was.


Dave asked: "Is it possible to put in a bigger hose on the vent.

That would require installing a larger vent fitting in the tank--a fairly easy job, thanks to a li'l gizmo called the Uniseal UNISEAL, and definitely worth doing! And PLUS 1 for everything else Dave said (apparently I've taught him well!) I'd upgrade the vent to 1".

Air in the holding tank is your friend. I would replace the through hull in the vent line with a plain mushroom through hull. That way you can backflush the vent hose when you pump out.
The filter will just plug and also stop air flow in and out of the tank which will promote anerobic bacteria which stink, a lot, remember air is your friend.


You said The macerator has what sounds like chunks of calcium rattling around in the macerator, so I added a cup of muriatic acid. Now there is about a half gallon mixture of urine, lake water, and acid. Smells like hell.

It would have been useful to read the directions for using muriatic acid.

--Peggie

 

[Comodave]

Yes, just about everything I know about heads and holding tanks I have learned from Peggy. She has been teaching me for almost 20 years now. I even learned about the Marine Elegance head from her. Kudos to Peggy!

 

[HeadMistress]

Think about this, Dave: Yes, the Marine Elegance is THE best toilet...but I'm thinkin' he needs something simpler, that doesn't require removing the mounting bolts to access the "works." The Raritan SeaEra is also top rated, but everything is accessible. Raritan SeaEra Promo Sheet And because he's in fresh water, the sea water version with the optional "momentary control" switch Raritan Momentary Control owners-manual will work just fine. This retailer has it for a very good price Boatersland -Raritan SeaEra Electric Marine Toilet



--Peggie

 

[HeadedToTexas]

Hydrochloric acid produces a strong, pungent odor with which I am quite familiar. Wouldn't want to sleep with that either, but it is manageable and can be readily neutralized. This is a sewage odor. It's as if the acid dissolved long trapped stink in the piping of the toilet itself. Making matters worse, last night I was "greeted" with water on the floor surrounding the head. It both looks and smells like the water in the bowl. I fear some piping, pump impeller housing, or fitting in the head has been compromised and is now leaking. Guess the good news is that it has clarified my steps ahead.

Here's how I see my Fathers Day going. Pump out whatever is in the tank and hope this also helps remove the contents of the bowl. If the pump out does, fine. If not, ShopVac it out. Clean up and disinfect the floor in the head. Aggressively rinse fresh water down the aft head (a vintage SeaEra model) and remove the rinse water through pump out. Head to Boatersland to buy a new SeaEra (thank you, Peggie!).

 

[HeadMistress]

Boatersland also has the "momntary control" switch for the best price I've found.
Boatersland RaritanMomentary Wall Control 12 Volt


--Peggie

 

[HeadedToTexas]

Thanks Peggie. The pump out cleared the bowl and subsequent rinses with 2 gallons of fresh water were pumped down without incident, but the leak persists. Not sure where it's coming from until I take it all apart, and then I plan to be prepared to replace the Jabsco with a new SeaEra. A big part of the issue is likely the "semi-kink" in the discharge line within the porcelain housing. Still hope to talk with Paul again this morning, but I'm not sure what he could tell me that would create some new serviceability to the Jabsco Deluxe.

My boat has raw water flush heads and an 80 gallon fresh water tank. It seems like raw water flush is an advantage and keeping it the way it is certainly simplifies the switch, but now would be the time to switch to fresh water flush. What would you do?

And assuming I stay with raw water flush, then the control needs to operate that original raw water pump. Isn't the main design element of the SeaEra the double ended pump where one end pumps water and the other end macerates and pumps sewage? Does that mean that a model RAR162-H-R-0-12-01 does not have the water end impeller assembly and simply accepts the raw water hose coming from the existing pump? Thanks again.

 

[HeadMistress]

Does that mean that a model RAR162-H-R-0-12-01 does not have the water end impeller assembly and simply accepts the raw water hose coming from the existing pump?

I'm not sure what RAR162-H-R-0-12-01 is and a search doesn't turn up anything...but it you're referring to the sea water version of the Raritan SeaEra, it does have an intake pump--a diaphragm pump, which makes it much quieter than most macerating electric toilets. And unlike the Jabsco 37010, which has an intake impeller inside the pump, it's at the aft end of the pump assembly...and an impeller discharge pump. So the 3-option "momentary control" will work just fine. See the exploded drawing and parts list in the "Installation, Operation and Maintenance Instructions" (aka "owners manual) Raritan SeaEra owners manual

As for there's an advantage to going with fresh water instead of sea water....80 gals of fresh water does not leave much to spare for toilet flushing, plus according to your profile, your boat is in fresh water. So for you, I don't see any advantage to a fresh water toilet...in fact, a disadvantage unless you're planning to add water tankage. And contrary to popular belief, whether the toilet is flushed with sea water or fresh makes NO difference IN THE HOLDING TANK...only in the plumbing. So if you move the boat to sea water, preventing odor and mineral buildup in the plumbing isn't difficult IF you do it.

-Peggie

 

[HeadedToTexas]

Here is the breakdown of Raritan's model number code (screen shot below):

H is household bowl
R is raw water pump
0 is straight and 90º option included
12 is 12 volt
01 is multifunction momentary control

My question is about the pump and the control type. Does the R model simply exclude the raw water impeller at the rear of the motor, or does it include a separate raw water pump?

And does control type 01 mean it includes the multifunction momentary panel, or just that it is set up for that control type and the control panel or switch must be purchased separately? Thanks Peggie.

 

[HeadMistress]

It looks like you took all that from the boatersland site...if so, that price includes the momentary control. What's NOT included: discharge fitting...you'll have to get the straight or 90, whichever you need from Raritan. Whether 1" or 1.5" depends on the size of the inlet fitting on your holding tank..1.5" is the standard size, but if your tank was ordered with fittings to match your Jabsco toilet, it could be either one...and it's best not to have to use adapters in a toilet discharge line.


--Peggie

 

[HeadedToTexas]

I am working on my order. Thanks Peggie.

Is it worth offering my old-ish Jabsco for sale before chucking it in the marina dumpster?

 

[HeadMistress]

If it works on the bench, why not? That way you can blame any problems the buyer has with it on vagaries in their system. Just be sure to provide an owners manual with it and ask a dirt cheap price.


--Peggie

 

[HeadedToTexas]

So I am now the proud new owner of a Raritan SeaEra and ready to get down to the process of swapping heads. I expect the plumbing and electrical to be pretty clear, but the mounting somewhat less so.

1. The boat originally had a SeaEra head in this spot; any chance the two bolt holes from the Jabsco Deluxe line up for the new SeaEra?
2. Rather than use lag bolts, should I epoxy ¼-20 threaded inserts into the floor and use stainless bolts instead?

 

[HeadMistress]

1. The boat originally had a SeaEra head in this spot; any chance the two bolt holes from the Jabsco Deluxe line up for the new SeaEra?

I'm not 100% certain, but Raritan does their best to make their toilets "plug n play" replacements for Jabsco, so there's a good chance they will. Since there was originally a SeaEra in that spot, note whether there any extra bolt holes (that may or may not have been filled) when you get the Jabsco out. The new SeaEra will definitely fit those.

If the Jabsco holes are a match for the SeaEra, I'd fill 'em and re-drill 'em 'cuz the bolt diameters may not be a match even if the mounting pattern is.

2. Rather than use lag bolts, should I epoxy ¼-20 threaded inserts into the floor and use stainless bolts instead?

No. For one thing, they may not be an exact fit for the holes in the toilet base...for another, mounting bolts need to "bite" into the fiberglass..if it doesn't you have a wobbly toilet. And finally, it's an unnecessary expense.

--Peggie

 

[HeadedToTexas]

Roger that. Thanks Peggie!

 

[HeadedToTexas]

My new SeaEra has the 90º angle adapter for 1-½" line and a 1" threaded adapterr to use 1" line to the holding tank. I had the best intentions of upgrading the approximately 6 feet of sewage line from the forward head to the holding tank from 1" to 1-½", but the fitting on the tank looks like 1". Note that the fittings for the aft head and pump out are both 1-½". What sort of surgery is required to change what looks like a glassed in fitting on the holding tank to accept the larger 1-½" hose?

And am I correct in assuming that the consequence of using 1" hose is more frequent clogs? This is a raw water flush system and my holding tank holds 30 gallons. I appreciate using less water per flush, but not if it comes at the expense of clogs.

 

[HopCar]

You may be better off with the 1” hose. It will take less water to flush the hose clean.
The SeaEra does a pretty good job of chopping up the stuff. I don’t think you’ll have a problem with blockages in the hose.

 

[Comodave]

I used 1” on our last boat from the new Marine Elegance head to the holding tank. The head is a macerating head so it is a slurry that is moving to the holding tank. IMO it takes less water to flush the 1” hose than a 1.5” hose. If you flush the hose after each usage so that the stuff if flushed into the tank, there isn’t anything left to clog the hose. However if you don’t use enough water to get the stuff into the tank then you would risk it drying in the hose and causing a clog. And to completely flush a 1.5” hose you will fill the tank sooner. That’s my story and I am sticking to it…

 

[HeadedToTexas]

That all makes sense. I have learned my lesson about saving water when it comes to flushing heads. I am all for saving water, but no clog is best. I think I inherited the consequences of short flushing habits from the PO.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

I see the SeaEra uses 4 mounting bolts where the Jabsco used only two. The 2 original bolts are lag bolts and the threads are solid. Is it safe to assume that there is wood beneath the head mounting area and that drilling into it will provide sufficient grip for the 2 rear bolts on the SeaEra base?

 

[Comodave]

Drill a test hole that will be covered by the head footprint and use a lag screw and see if it tightens up properly. If not then you will likely have to use a hole saw and cut a larger hole in the middle to put some backing plywood in or a threaded T nut on the bottom.

 

[Bacchus]

Vince
It appears that the 1-1/2" line dips down below the 1" line. If so it will likely leave a low spot between the head and tank inlet which is not desirable. Can the hose be rerouted/ shortened to make the run from head to tank all " down hill"?

 

[HeadMistress]

And am I correct in assuming that the consequence of using 1" hose is more frequent clogs?


Nope, you are incorrect. Sea water mineral buildup in the toilet discharge line, what is flushed (wet wipes for instance), incomplete flushing and/or a torturous hose run are equally likely to create clogs in 1" or 1.5" hose.


--Peggie

 

[HeadedToTexas]

That is all reassuring; thanks folks. The swap out went all according to plan, though the 2-½" lag bolts I bought to replace the ones used to hold the old Jabsco in place were way longer than needed. I think the head platform is underlayed by what felt like ¾" plywood. Most of that bolt length was wasted. Thankfully there is plenty of space beneath for the extra bolt length.

The Raritan produces a flush that is far, FAR more aggressive than the tired old Jabsco. It's down right inspiring.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

Vince
It appears that the 1-1/2" line dips down below the 1" line. If so it will likely leave a low spot between the head and tank inlet which is not desirable. Can the hose be rerouted/ shortened to make the run from head to tank all " down hill"?

I see what you mean, Don. I think I can shorten the 1" and route it "inside" the turn so that it and the larger hose from the aft head make the turn side by side. That should eliminate the dip. Thank you!