Ford Lehman 120 Transmission Question

[TheTuftedPuffin]

I'm looking for a reliable transmission mechanic for this engine in the Portland, Oregon area. Any referrals?

I just drained the transmission fluid and had a sample analyzed. It came back with high lead and copper levels.
Current engine hours are 5740 hours. I purchased the boat 18 months ago at 5700 hours. I have maintenance records going back to 2007 at 3500 hours. Transmission fluids were regularly replaced up until 2015 and 5050 hours. That was the last time that fluid was changed.

The following is copied from the analysis:
UIN 08F2665
Make
Model
Serial No.
Site
Name Reduction Gear
Make
Model
Serial No.
Capacity: 0.0 Ltrs
DIAGNOSIS
Wear metal(s) high indicating possible bearing/bushing
wear. Silicon level (dirt/sealant material) satisfactory.
Water content acceptable. Please provide missing oil
information at next sample submission. Action:
Inspection for source of wear may be warranted at this
time. Check for any abnormal vibrations and/or noise.
Drain oil from unit if not already changed. Resample after
corrective action to further monitor.
Unit:
Compartment:
Reduction Gearbox
LEGEND
Severe Severe Abnormal Caution Normal
Metals (ppm)
Iron (Fe) 23
Chromium (Cr) <1
Lead (Pb) 190
Copper (Cu) 59
Tin (Sn)
1
Aluminium (Al) <1
Nickel (Ni) <1
Silver (Ag) <1
Titanium (Ti) <1
Vanadium (V) <1
Contaminants (ppm)
Silicon (Si)
4
Sodium (Na)
4
Potassium (K) <1
Additives (ppm)
Magnesium (Mg)
4
Calcium (Ca) 271
Barium (Ba) <1
Phosphorus (P) 242
Zinc (Zn) 55
Molybdenum (Mo) <1
Boron (B) 86
Contaminants
Water (%) <0.05
Physical Tests
Viscosity (cSt 40C) 26.4
PQ Index 17
Solids (%) 0.1
DATE SAMPLED 08-Nov-21
DATE RECEIVED 08-Nov-21
DATE REPORTED 09-Nov-21
LAB NO. 40111292058
SIF NO. 39789488
TIME ON UNIT
TIME ON OIL
OIL BRAND

 

[Alaskaflyer]

To clarify, it appears that the sample was taken from fluid present since 2015 and 650 engine hours ago? Are you experiencing any symptoms?

 

[kchace]

If the oil had very high hours on it which it appears to have had, those numbers may be quite normal.

Ken

 

[TheTuftedPuffin]

Alaskaflyer - yes, same transmission fluid for 650 hours. PO reports he checked the fluid regularly and never had to add any fluid and the fluid was always red and fruity and did not smell burnt. PO experienced no issues with the transmission and no vibrations. I haven't had any issues with the transmission either. I know the transmission is not the original (1978 BorgWarner 1017 - 012 model) and that it has at least 2200 hours on it. I'm just trying to gather data and figure out if I need to look into a rebuilt transmission or have this one rebuilt. Just trying to get ahead of the issue.

 

[TheTuftedPuffin]

If the oil had very high hours on it which it appears to have had, those numbers may be quite normal.

Ken

- that is what I'm trying to figure out. Do you have any experience with high hours transmission fluid?

 

[C lectric]

Gearbox oils do need to be changed. THere are antioxidants, anti wear additives, anti foaming additives and other neat stuff that gets used up. In the gear box the only way to refresh it is to change the oil.

Keep a copy of the test report.

Don't stop looking for a re/re shop or mechanic but change the oil now.

When I have had a problem like this I will run the engine / gearbox to thoroughly mix the new oil with any remaining old oil. Then take another test immediately so you now have a record of the new oil levels contaminants.

Get 50 or so hours on it and test again to see if the levels are rising again.

If not then you are very likely OK.

 

[TheTuftedPuffin]

Gearbox oils do need to be changed. THere are antioxidants, anti wear additives, anti foaming additives and other neat stuff that gets used up. In the gear box the only way to refresh it is to change the oil.

Keep a copy of the test report.

Don't stop looking for a re/re shop or mechanic but change the oil now.

When I have had a problem like this I will run the engine / gearbox to thoroughly mix the new oil with any remaining old oil. Then take another test immediately so you now have a record of the new oil levels contaminants.

Get 50 or so hours on it and test again to see if the levels are rising again.

If not then you are very likely OK.

Yep, the fluid was changed and I'll grab another sample for another analysis as soon as I can take her out and run her for an hour or so.

 

[av8r]

Harbor Marine in Everett used to be the place to go for Lehman and Borg Warner work, might be worth a call. Harbormarine.net.

 

[TheTuftedPuffin]

Harbor Marine in Everett used to be the place to go for Lehman and Borg Warner work, might be worth a call. Harbormarine.net.

Thank you. I'll give them a call.

 

[catalinajack]

If the oil had very high hours on it which it appears to have had, those numbers may be quite normal.

Ken

Do not oil analyzers consider the number of hours on a sample in reaching conclusions as to the levels of wear metal present? In other word a sample with 600 hours would have twice as much of a particular wear metal as oil with 300 hours.

 

[jleonard]

Here are the comments from my last sample of a BW behind a Ford Lehman 120.
Unit had 1000 hours on the oil. My copper was 688 ppm and lead 371 ppm.
I wouldn't worry too much about this sample. Take another in the future and then make a decision.

The first look at your transmission shows high levels of copper and lead. While these values are high
compared to universal averages, your oil run was longer so metals had more time to accumulate. These
amounts of copper and lead are often from harmless sources (e.g. oxides washing off an oil cooler or heat
exchanger). If the transmission is operating like it should, then we don't have reason to suspect these levels
are a problem. A trace of insolubles was present, which is below the 0.1% max. If all is well on your end,
just check back to compare results.

 

[Choices]

I just had Mike at Harbor Marine rebuild my BW. Did a good job from what I can tell.

It had 5900 hours on it. All was good but a clip broke and reverse became hit or miss. With a single screw hit or miss is real exciting.

I really baby my transmission.

My price was roughly $4k.

I have rear engine mounts and took it out myself in an hour and a half, same going back in.

Change fluid with engine oil. Also change dampner with tranny rebuild, and check tranny cooler.

Good luck.