Eco-worthy batteries

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Have you spent some time on Will Prowses channel where he tears down various batteries? Eco-Worthy is mentioned on his blog/forum but from a few years ago (the 150ah tested at 160ah, a good thing). He occasionally re-reviews batteries and is often surprised by how inconsistent the build is over time (cells changed, not cinsistent, etc.rarely improved).

If you have the space and budget, this 12v server rack battery is a decent buy and has a lot of onboard monitoring including cell-balancing. Current price is $1400 for 400ah. This would integrate and communicate with a Victron inverter which would give a ton of information if you are so inclined.

https://youtu.be/6n9Pfa9dq2k

Peter
 
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I will look into that option. The Eco-worthy are promising 1040 amp/hr for $2,800. The server rack would be 800 amp/hr for $2,800. I am replacing 8 L16’s which is 1400 amp/hr but only half is usable so more like 700 amp/hr vs 936 amp/hr for the LiFePO4’s.

Good L16’s now costs $350 apiece and I need 8.

Weight, while not an issue to the boat is a factor for me. It took all I had to remove 4 L16’s today. I will remove 2 more tomorrow and the final two the next day. The LiFePO4’s only weight 65# vs the L16’s at 125#.
 
Don’t know anything about these batteries. Read Rod Collins article on LiFePO4 battery. It is on marinehowto.com. Very informative on what to look for in a Lithium battery.
 
Tiltrider - here's a recent teardown of a cheap battery. Gives you some idea of what gets tested. Prowse is big on low temp cutoff protection.

https://youtu.be/tAaThjkazkM

Another review of a cheap battery where he discusses general category of cheap Chinese batteries.

https://youtu.be/30HaYO_mZpg

Bottom line is low price LFP is a bit of a crap shoot in quality but seems to work out okay. But....if you have a DOA battery, could be difficult to return.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Peter
 
If you are worried about ABYC compliant, LFP batteries on a boat need to meet a few requirements. There is a thread on the site about that. I don’t think the Eco Worthy batteries meet either of the UL standards specified.

Tom
 
No experience with Eco-Worthy but I do have a 100 amp Power Queen battery. I consider Eco-Worthy and Power Queen in the same group of cheap Chinese batteries. I have it for backup power for outages so I can run the gas furnace at night or refrigerator. At 100 amps it's just going to get me through the night but will cut generator run time(noise). It is also used to run a CPAP when off grid. So no where near the cycles of cruising but no problems so far after 9 months.

That Eco-Worthy is unique to have a 250 amp BMS where the other batteries in that class are usually only a 200amp BMS for a 200-300 amp hour battery. Keep us posted if you give them a try or if you find a reason not to go with that brand.
 
The server rack batteries are looking increasingly attractive. If I were starting now I'd go in that direction. The innards don't really need to be sealed up in plastic for most of us. That's an artifact of the bad old days [emoji3]
 
My issue with the Server Rack Batteries is weight. I am uncomfortable trying to hustle a 100 lbs battery into position. At 65 lbs I can easily handle that on my own.
 
tiltrider1 said:
My issue with the Server Rack Batteries is weight. I am uncomfortable trying to hustle a 100 lbs battery into position. At 65 lbs I can easily handle that on my own.
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Totally agree. But only have to do it once......and they have so many advantages. These are made for off-grid requirements vs adaptation of engine start. So little cabling.

I wonder if new boat builders have gotten onboard with Server Racks? I started a thread a while back on viability of going 48v for house (12v or 24v for system support) which may be a bridge too far but I have to think its time to re-think the energy equation from scratch instead of increments of 12v/24v and ~100AH batteries.

Peter
 
I would use them except for the need to redo the engine room to suit. Presently suited to conventional looking batteries.

I am converting the house bank to LiFePO4 with a couple of Li Time 12 volt, 300 AH units. The UL approved BMS was key, I don't care about the lack of low temp protection. The house bank is currently (2) 4D AGM and they are from 2017 and getting weak.
 
Delta Riverat said:
I am converting the house bank to LiFePO4 with a couple of Li Time 12 volt, 300 AH units. The UL approved BMS was key, I don't care about the lack of low temp protection.
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That's what I did early last year. I'm entirely pleased with the batteries and the buying process.
 
I know very little about lithium batteries, but I have seen a spate of land vehicles going up in flames and that would scare the heck out of me on a boat.
 
ronobrien said:
I know very little about lithium batteries, but I have seen a spate of land vehicles going up in flames and that would scare the heck out of me on a boat.
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Even Tesla is changing their batteries to boat similar lithium ones. You should do some research to find there is a difference.
 
SteveK said:
Even Tesla is changing their batteries to boat similar lithium ones. You should do some research to find there is a difference.
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I will thanks. I did not realize that there was a difference.
 
https://lithiumhub.com/lifepo4-batt...and high temperatures,start a fire or explode.

Overall, LifePO4 batteries have the safest lithium chemistry. Why? Because lithium iron phosphate has better thermal and structural stability. This is something lead acid and most other battery types don’t have at the level LiFePO4 does. LiFePO4 is incombustible. It can withstand high temperatures without decomposing. It’s not prone to thermal runaway, and will keep cool at room temperature.
 
This is why I love this site. Interesting people willing to share information on interesting topics. Thanks.
 
Here are the major types of Lithium battery chemistry


LCO or Lithium Cobalt Oxide (LiCoO2)
LMO or Lithium Manganese Oxide (LiMn2O4)
NMC or Lithium Nickel Manganese Cobalt Oxide (LiNiMnCoO2)
LFP or Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4)
NCA or Lithium Nickel Cobalt Aluminum Oxide (LiNiCoAlO2)
LTO or Lithium Titanate (Li2TiO3)
 
I received 4 260 amp/hr 12v eco-worthy batteries. All tested good. Total cost was $2,520. Installation was easy. I did a lot of research before I figured out how to correctly reprogram my Magnum inverter/charger to work with the batteries.

This week I will test the system.
 
tiltrider1 said:
I received 4 260 amp/hr 12v eco-worthy batteries. All tested good. Total cost was $2,520. Installation was easy. I did a lot of research before I figured out how to correctly reprogram my Magnum inverter/charger to work with the batteries.

This week I will test the system.
Click to expand...
After learning a bit from this thread I am considering Lithiums when the time comes. I didn't find much about physical size of these batts after a brief search. Can I assume they come in physical sizes that match my 8Ds? Thanks.
 
The LiFePO4’s come in various sizes. The 260 Ah versions are generally Wide- 7-10” Length 19-23” and Depth are 8-9”.

There are smaller Ah batteries that are of course smaller.
 
For those who are following. It took me a while to figure out and reprogram my Magnum Inverter/charger to correctly charge the eco-worthy batteries. Eco-worthy recommend a bulk, absorption, float profile with a 14.5 bulk, 13.8 float and 14.5 equalization setting.

I ran a test were I was drawing approximately 30 Ah and ran for 10 hours. The batteries were at 13.2 at the beginning which is 70% charged. They were 13.1 after 10 hours which shows as 40%. I have 1000 Ahs, it appears like I used 30% with my test which is 300 Ah.

So far everything has worked out as promised. Now we will see how many years they last.
 
tiltrider1 said:
For those who are following. It took me a while to figure out and reprogram my Magnum Inverter/charger to correctly charge the eco-worthy batteries. Eco-worthy recommend a bulk, absorption, float profile with a 14.5 bulk, 13.8 float and 14.5 equalization setting.

I ran a test were I was drawing approximately 30 Ah and ran for 10 hours. The batteries were at 13.2 at the beginning which is 70% charged. They were 13.1 after 10 hours which shows as 40%. I have 1000 Ahs, it appears like I used 30% with my test which is 300 Ah.

So far everything has worked out as promised. Now we will see how many years they last.
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Not sure the art-of-possible on your Magnum (I have a Magnum too, so I should know), but most algorithms recommend disabling Equalization. I'll have to look at mine - I mostly charge from solar or engine. My understanding is equalization means different things for FLA than LFP - for FLA, process knocks sulfates off the plates. For LFP, means balancing the cells which a charger cannot do if they LFP's are ganged together.

If I can suggest, you may want to get a simple Victron battery sensor that detects voltage and temperature. https://www.amazon.com/Victron-Smar...t=&hvlocphy=1013962&hvtargid=pla-753464671886. Will tell you if there is any voltage drop between your charger/inverter and your batteries. Also if the batteries heat-up, tells you they are being over-charged. Finally, one of the challenges with multiple LFP batteries is they really should be balance-charged from time to time. This is teadious and a good reason to go with server racks because its all controlled internally. I have 6 100AH batteries and balance-charging them is a PITA. They have to be isolated meaning disconnected.

Hope this helps. Definitely following - thanks for sharing.

Peter
 
Notice that equalization voltage is set to the same as bulk. I also set the equalization time to .1 hrs. You don’t really equalize LiFePO4’s. You do need to program the voltage in on the off chance some one starts the process unintentionally.

As for battery temperature monitoring, this is all handled by Eco-worthy’s BMS. You actually disconnect the Magnum temperature sensor to prevent it from increasing voltage when the batteries are cold. Eco-worthy’s BMS manages batteries up to 4 in parallel preventing overcharging and balancing issues by turning on and off charging at the battery.

I used 4/0 from the Magnum to the batteries and 2/0 to parallel the batteries just to be sure voltage drop would not be an issue.
 
tiltrider1 said:
Notice that equalization voltage is set to the same as bulk. I also set the equalization time to .1 hrs. You don’t really equalize LiFePO4’s. You do need to program the voltage in on the off chance some one starts the process unintentionally.

As for battery temperature monitoring, this is all handled by Eco-worthy’s BMS. You actually disconnect the Magnum temperature sensor to prevent it from increasing voltage when the batteries are cold. Eco-worthy’s BMS manages batteries up to 4 in parallel preventing overcharging and balancing issues by turning on and off charging at the battery.

I used 4/0 from the Magnum to the batteries and 2/0 to parallel the batteries just to be sure voltage drop would not be an issue.
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All makes sense. I am a bit curious how the individual BMS balance-charges, but probably only a minor issue. If LFP follows a standard Moores Law curve, price will stop dropping at some point but feature/function will increase at same price point. Sounds like the Eco-worthy is a good example of enhanced feature/function ahead of competition.

Please update periodically. Very interesting for the nerds in the TF crowd.

Peter
 
[ Eco-worthy recommend a bulk, absorption, float profile with a 14.5 bulk, 13.8 float and 14.5 equalization setting.
/QUOTE] I have a Magnasine 2000, so want to look at settings.
Could you say what custom setting was set for those quoted. Also, do you see 14.5 in bulk right away or does it work its way up to 14.5. Is equalization then entered for absorb.
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Magnum has presets for FLA, Gel, AGM1 and AGM2. There is a new remote out the ME-RC-L which adds a preset for Lifepo4. However, Eco-worthy does not recommend using that preset.

Magnum also has two programable battery types CC/CV and Custom. Eco-worthy did not like the CC/CV but did say it works well for situations were you are charging and discharging every day. For a boat they preferred the Custom.

Custom is the battery type this is were you program in the Bulk, Floating and EQ stages. You will also need to set final stage to floating instead of multi which comes up in the menu after battery type.

Batteries came to me at 50% charge. The charge immediately went to 13.9 and 125amps. The voltage then went higher over time eventually reaching 14.5. In a matter of minutes the current dropped from 125 to 20. I was told that the absorption portion is very short with Lifepo4 batteries. Then the charger switched to floating and remained there until I started testing time duration without shore power.

Eco-worthy says that there is no reason to use equalization mode and that voltage should be set to 14.5 incase equalization is accidentally initiated.
 
I was very skeptical of cheap Chinese batteries. I have purchased a few back up batteries to run computers off grid. I found that the advertising was mostly lies and overstated the capabilities of the batteries by 5x.

A friend told me that I should go Lifepo4, I told him that it was too expensive. He then shot me a link to Eco-worthy with incredibly good pricing. I read the reviews and they were positive most saying the batteries preformed better than promised.

I called Eco-worthy and they actually answered the phone. I asked the guy point blank why I should trust his batteries when they were considerably cheaper than the competition. He responded with, "I work for Eco-worthy a Chinese company that has set up shop in the US to sell directly to the consumer, eliminating the middle man" Eco-worthy felt there were only two ways to gain market share, advertise like crazy or be extremely competitive on price. They chose price.

I then asked some technical questions and set up questions with Magnum. They actually had answers and explained how there BMS would react to the Magnum profiles.

At that point I took a chance. I can no longer lift the 125lbs L-16 batteries so I decided to take a chance with Eco-worthy.

So far so good.
 
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