Ssb to coupler issue

[Phil23]

Everyone on my marina professes to be an expert but no one can help me!!!



I have a Kenwood HRC70 ssb transmitter and have purchased a second hand SG-230 Smartuner Automatic Antenna Coupler.


The ssb is installed and powers up just fine.
I have located the Coupler in a locker in close proximity.
The coax cable has been run to the transceiver along with the associated connection wires.
The Coupler coax cable has female PL-259 aerial fitting however the transceiver has a pin plug to take a tuner plug.
Here is where the fun started.the coupler + and - have been wired into the system, There are two other wires for smartlock control and remote tuner indicator which have not been connected as they are stated as optional.
The coupler + wire is sent through an on/off switch and when turned on the coupler can be heard to be working (klick)
A single wire (18AWL) has been run from the coupler antenna outlet to my whip.



As the fitting from coupler to transceiver are different I was convinced to cut the PL-259 off the coax, remove the plug from the back of the radio at the tuner input and expose the wires (plug now munted!!)
There is a black and red cable plus 3 others which appear not to be in the circuit (go no where)
on advise connected coax center to the red wire and braid to the black wire, turn on radio and the radios fuse blows!!
Should the coupler PL fitting have been taken to the ssb male PL aerial plug.
Anybody able to help I am finding this quite vexing!!!!!!!!!

 

[fgarriso]

This is for a Icom AT-140 coupler but should be close.

 

[Phil23]

Yes similar however my problem is which wires do I connect the coupler to on/in the Kenwood ssb, I can connect a PL coupling but to which wires.

 

[boomerang]

Are you saying that the PL259 (or 258... I'm not too clear on your description) used a multiple conductor cable soldered into it and not a coax cable? The easiest thing to do would be ring out ,with an ohm meter, the cables on the plug you cut to see what colors went to the center pin and which ones went to the case. If you chunked the connector, you could maybe ring out the colors of the cord attached to the tuner. I would assume at least 1 goes to the case ground and the ones that don't go to the center pin. You should really be able to tell by opening the tuner up and doing a visual inspection.

Edit: I've re read your post and I'm still not clear on everything. I'm assuming you have already unplugged the tuner from the transceiver to verify the fuse does not blow.

 

[teknoid]

A TRC-70 perhaps? If so, this manual shows , Figure 1-7, the pin out for the coupler. That help?

https://www.manualscenter.com/manuals/kenwood/trc70-service-manual.html#.YaY9xi-IahA

 

[Phil23]

Ooops yes my ssb is a Kenwood TRC-70 NOT HRC apologize.That is exactly the plug I am referring to (which has now been removed and damaged during extraction)


The wires to that plug are black,red,and then finer wires brown, red orange.


This is the plug/wires I need to connect the SGC Antenna Coupler to which had a PL-259 female antenna plug on it.

 

[diver dave]

I have not seen a pl259 for anything but RF connections. Verify GND and FSB are the only connections from 1-7 that are used, going to the tuner. They simply power the tuner with 12V dc.
There is a separate RF connection with coax and pl259's, correct?

 

[EngNate]

post pics of both units. I've never seen anything but RF connectors used for RF connections.

 

[teknoid]

I think there is some confusion - I think there are two connections:

Antenna -> tuner -> radio. The rig appears to have a standard female 239 connector, so nothing unusual .

In addition, there is another connector,
Rig -> tuner

That is activated when pressing the Tune button, and this tells the tuner to work its impedance matching magic.

Again on the guessing, but I expect that this was designed for a specific Kenwood tuner and you may have an uphill battle getting this to work with your tuner.

 

[diver dave]

The SG230 needs no control lines. It tunes at full power. It does give a "I'm tuned" signal, but usage is optional. It doesn't get any easier to integrate to a wide variety of transceivers. In fact, these tuners are known to tune in the middle of a conversation, when a mobile whip approaches a panel truck, etc.

This contrasts with my Icom marine tuner, that will, on a push of a button, tune to a frequency with a low power setting. THey do use control lines for this feature.

And, most all of these auto-tuners, have a memory that very quickly tunes frequencies that have been used before.

 

[denverd0n]

Perhaps this will help... http://sgcworld.com/Publications/Manuals/230man.pdf

 

[Phil23]

Covid is stopping me getting to the Marina at present when I do I will get photos etc.
As an aside do I need to worry about HF shock etc as I did on my yacht.

My instalation goes from transcever to KISS to whip aerial (18AWG wire) all internally routed no porcelain through deck type fitting.

 

[Phil23]

Insulator

 

[Capt Ray]

Phil23,
You will have to explain this sentence to me:

"My instalation goes from transcever to KISS to whip aerial (18AWG wire) all internally routed no porcelain through deck type fitting."

FYI:
I used to own/use an SGC-230, w/ no control cable as Diver Dave points out.
I currenly own/use an Icom AH4 (with control cable), on a boat.
I also currently use a KISS-SSB counterpoise on same boat. I am not certain if that is what you were referring to in your latest post.
If yes, the counterpoise is connected to the coupler to a different place as your radiator.
Please clarify what you've got there.

73 de Ray - N1RY

 

[Phil23]

Thanks for your reply Ray as you can gather I am a little confused regarding ssb/tuner installation.
I will endeavor to explain what I have done and were my confusion lies.


I am a recreational trawler with upper house/flying bridge, my antenna is mounted on the roof/hardtop.
In a long storage locker in the saloon I have installed my KISS counterpoise and SG-230 Coupler, the reason for this is the KISS counterpoise cannot be more than 4 feet from the coupler/tuner.
From the coupler the cable is taken to a shelf above the locker where the Kenwood TRC-70 is installed.
The coupler has be powered up and clicks on and off through an on/off switch.
DC + and DC - have been wired into the dc system and at this stage the coax portion with an antenna screw on fitting has been taken to the ssb outlet NOT the 5 port TUNER plug.
I am not using the red/white smartlock wire nor the black/white remote tuner wire.

The antenna wire from the coupler (18AWG) has been taken to the antenna, some 2 to 3 meters, which I appreciate is not ideal and the tuner should be close to the antenna however this is not possible.
I appreciate the antenna starts at the coupler.


SO



SG-230 fires up and can be heard searching, ssb fires up and appears fully functional although on the marina all I can receive is static.


My query is, apart from distance to my antenna does my install sound correct.
My quandary should the antenna coax from the controller be connected to the threaded antenna outlet or the Antenna Coupler Connector.
As the controller came with a PL type screw on fitting and the coupler is connected to the antenna it made sense to me to use the antenna fitting on the Kenwood.
I would very much appreciate your critique



PHEW!!!! does that make any sense to you or have I confused the both of us.
Regards
Phil

 

[Capt Ray]

Phil23,

Does this diagram show your current configuration?
(This is what I would expect a correct schematic to look like for your situation.)

If not, what is different?

73 de Ray N1RY

 

[Phil23]

I appreciate your help Ray been confusing myself with this install for a couple of months
Yes that looks like what I have

 

[Phil23]

Unsure if you received my response, yes exactly what I have Ray.
I appreciate your help. Phil

 

[Capt Ray]

Phil23,

OK, so now that we think things are wired up correctly, take another stab at describing what your anomaly is. "What is the behavior that you are seeing?"
What does not seem correct to you?

A bit more technical:

Are you familiar with SWR?
and
Do you have an SWR indicator in your transceiver? What do you show for SWR on different bands? i.e. does it appear that the coupler is actually tuning.

Also,
Simply on RX, are you hearing anything? What bands?

 

[Phil23]

Bearing in mind I am in a marina with many masts around me and during daylight hours, I cannot receive anything. When I turn on the Coupler I hear a distinct click and after a few minutes I am sure it has done the tuning process.
I am totally new to SWR. There does not appear to be any agents for either SGC equipment nor KISS in New Zealand. I do not have SWR indicator on my set (Kenwood TRC-70) nor do I know how to tell what megs I am on.
All I am able to hear is static on say 2182 4125 62158291

 

[diver dave]

….
All I am able to hear is static on say 2182 4125 62158291

Well, thats pretty much normal. Best to try freqs that are in constant, or at least frequent use. Pick up a marine fax sheet that has freqs and times, or use a time standard broadcast, or 14.3 around dinnertime.

On the 6’ feed to the antenna.. its not wrong, but realize it is a radiating element. As such, it should be routed away from other electronic devices. Dont know what else is in this locker, but flux compass and autopilot controller, and solar controller would be poor choices.