Insurance

[Omikeoreilly]

Hi Folks,

I am a new owner of a Grand Banks 42 1999 she is beautiful but no one wants to insure a 20 year old boat any more. The quotes are outrageous.$4000.00 plus. I have been with USAA for 30 years no claims. They sent me to Progressive which just cancelled my policy because she is 20 years old.

I imagine this is a issue all of us older boat owners are grappling with.

I will keep you posted. Any feedback is welcome.

Thanks

 

[Comodave]

Welcome aboard and congrats on your new boat. I belong to Boat/US. We have our insurance with them and our boat is a 1987.

 

[tiltrider1]

There is something else going on here. I have a 30 year old boat and no problems with insurance. $4,000 sounds a bit steep but since I have no idea what value you have on the boat nor have you mentioned how much liability you are covering. What area of operations. $4,000 a year sounds like my boat for coverage up and down the west coast but would be high if it was just inland water ways.

 

[Omikeoreilly]

One challenge I have is the last boat i owned was a 25 ft. sail boat. Insurer's want to see you move up.I would get a better rate if I was trading up from say a 35ft. power boat. I am telling all the insurer's I plan on hiring a Captain for a four week training program which I planned to do no matter what. So much to learn
As I understand from the broker's is insuring a boat prior to the year 2000 is becoming more difficult. Many marine Insurer's are leaving
the business I am told.

 

[GoneFarrell]

mikeo, keep shopping, you are asking here in the right place.

I just finished favorable survey on 30 y.o. boat built in BC. That went well, I am with Safeco, but I don't think they will cover boats over about 34' LOA.

Surveyor (very experienced) says big insurer here in PNW is pulling out of market for bigger boats for some reason. I can't say why, will have to work him more with additional home brew.

Condition matters more than years to me. If you have a good survey keep shopping, $4K seems high for your area.

I can see an opportunity for TF "group buy" as there are many responsible lower risk vessels in this on line community.

You just don't see many YouTube videos of trawlers gone wrong.

 

[SteveK]

One challenge I have is the last boat i owned was a 25 ft. sail boat. Insurer's want to see you move up.I would get a better rate if I was trading up from say a 35ft. power boat. I am telling all the insurer's I plan on hiring a Captain for a four week training program which I planned to do no matter what. So much to learn
As I understand from the broker's is insuring a boat prior to the year 2000 is becoming more difficult. Many marine Insurer's are leaving
the business I am told.

Interesting. What kind of boat before the 25 sail.
The age of the boat in itself is an excuse. Did it survey well or an arm long list of work. It sounds more like you told them you are not qualified to run a 42. Just a wag. After all you did make a big jump. Even a 30 foot sail needs more skills than a 25 to operate, if you see what I mean.

 

[Omikeoreilly]

You are so right my friend. We are not the group doing crazy things on the water. One explanation I got from a experienced underwriter I spoke with tonight.
A few years ago there was a big increase in large yacht sales to people with no experience operating them and few qualified underwriter's to oversee the process and the insurer's lost money.
Much harder to insure a boat over 40ft.

 

[Comodave]

We thought about buying a larger boat a couple of months ago. I checked with Boat/US just to see what it might cost to insure. It was 17’ larger than our current boat but we used to own a 46’ boat for about 8 years so they said the 17’ jump was fine since we had had the 46’. Their guidelines were larger than a 15’ jump. The price quoted for a 58’ Hatteras LRC valued at $240,000 was $1300 per year. But we are in Michigan so the boat is stored for the winter.

 

[SteveK]

Their guidelines were larger than a 15’ jump

Dave, that actual sounds reasonable. while I operated a 70 footer many times with owner aboard, having only owned a few in mid 30's I doubt they would let me make that jump. I am comfortable under 40 knowing I am single handing it even if there is a crew on board. I thought about the 42 GB but decided not today.

 

[DegoRed]

Your rate of $4K sounds right in line, however you told us the length of your boat but not the value, insurance is based off value, not so much the size. Based upon my recent endeavors getting quotes for 8 different companies, insurance is running about 1%-1.5% of value right now. Then throw in location as a modifier, centerline of US/Mason Dixon Line as baseline, further north, cheaper insurance gets, further south, more expensive it gets.

I ended up using Peter Ricks from this forum who placed us with Boat US, we had zero issues getting quotes on a 40 year old boat@52ft, age of your boat is not your issue. FWIW paid $4500/year using Maryland as location.

 

[Bud]

The age of the boat matters if the policy has a depreciation schedule that applies. 5% a year of depreciation on a 30 year vessel does not leave much. The devils in the details. Does the policy have a depreciation schedule and exactly what does it apply to? Alot of these policies on older boats with depreciation schedules basicly become liability policies.

Bud

 

[psneeld]

Yes but they still cover environmental cleanup and mine covers salvage...the depreciation is on a partial loss but not the total loss if I understand the policy.



I have an "Agreed value" policy on a 32 year old boat (surveyed for about $20,000 higher. Cost for in year round in Florida a little over $2000.

 

[Bud]

Yes but they still cover environmental cleanup and mine covers salvage...the depreciation is on a partial loss but not the total loss if I understand the policy.



I have an "Agreed value" policy on a 32 year old boat (surveyed for about $20,000 higher. Cost for in year round in Florida a little over $2000.

Correct, But they decide if it is a total loss or not.

Bud

 

[psneeld]

Correct, But they decide if it is a total loss or not.

Bud

true they evaluate at time of loss but start from the agreed value...not an automatic depreciation...if you disagree, your own evaluation and arbitration is an option.


chances are if you have a halfway decent boat....full coverage is a far cry from liability only.

 

[Bud]

Ask your broker a hypothetical. If your boat sank at the dock and engine room partially filled with water. Probably would not be total loss. How much would you get to repair it? If your boat is 30 years old and your policy has a depreciation schedule you would not get enough to buy an inflatable.

Bud

 

[Rufus]

Hi Folks,

.... I have been with USAA for 30 years no claims. They sent me to Progressive which just cancelled my policy because she is 20 years old.

Thanks

USAA placed us with Markel when Progressive cancelled us. Markel isn't the lowest cost, but they are currently letting customers do their own 5-7 year renewal survey, which saves a big surcharge and eliminates the inconvenience of inept surveyors invading your space...what a scam that is. Anyway, call USAA and ask them about Markel.

 

[psneeld]

Ask your broker a hypothetical. If your boat sank at the dock and engine room partially filled with water. Probably would not be total loss. How much would you get to repair it? If your boat is 30 years old and your policy has a depreciation schedule you would not get enough to buy an inflatable.

Bud

Been in the salvage business long enough that if the entire engine room filled with water...total loss most ikely.


Partial submerge? That's a loaded question.... but even if it were not totaled, then as long as the environmental was paid, and the salvage was paid I can live with that. I can lose money on something paid long ago...but I wouldn't want to pay out of pocket a $100,000 salvage and environmental bill.


So once again...it's NOT just a liability policy even with depreciation.


My broker said it was easy to get a liability policy and for cheap...not so much what I pay for...but I still think it is better risk management than liability only.


Really not all that educated on insurance...hopefully an insurance expert will chime in.

 

[Omikeoreilly]

So much great feed back here. Thank you all for the valuable info.
Since my last post after reaching out to six or so brokers I am getting some more down to earth Proposals. Waiting to hear from a few others.

This forum was a Godsend when I was looking to buy a Grand Bank's. So much wisdom and practical advice. Can't thank you all enough. I hope to pay you back in the years to come.

When in Norwalk CT. Say hello and come for a cruise.

 

[Seevee]

Your rate of $4K sounds right in line, however you told us the length of your boat but not the value, insurance is based off value, not so much the size. Based upon my recent endeavors getting quotes for 8 different companies, insurance is running about 1%-1.5% of value right now. Then throw in location as a modifier, centerline of US/Mason Dixon Line as baseline, further north, cheaper insurance gets, further south, more expensive it gets.

I ended up using Peter Ricks from this forum who placed us with Boat US, we had zero issues getting quotes on a 40 year old boat@52ft, age of your boat is not your issue. FWIW paid $4500/year using Maryland as location.

One percent is high enough... I think that I'd go bear much more than that. If you figure out the value of money, risk you're taking and cost of the premiums paying much more 1% doesn't make sense. If you factor in the everything the break even point is about 15 years. So, just be careful for the first 15 years. Most of use won't have any issues for the first 30 years. I haven't and I've been boating for about 50 years.

 

[Bud]

Been in the salvage business long enough that if the entire engine room filled with water...total loss most ikely.


Partial submerge? That's a loaded question.... but even if it were not totaled, then as long as the environmental was paid, and the salvage was paid I can live with that. I can lose money on something paid long ago...but I wouldn't want to pay out of pocket a $100,000 salvage and environmental bill.


So once again...it's NOT just a liability policy even with depreciation.


My broker said it was easy to get a liability policy and for cheap...not so much what I pay for...but I still think it is better risk management than liability only.


Really not all that educated on insurance...hopefully an insurance expert will chime in.

My point is simple and hopefully understood by OP and others. Policies for older vessels that do not have depreciation schedules are totally different and much better policies than policies that have deprecition schedules that apply. The latter will not help very much in the repair of the vessel (due the math). Comparing policies on premiums and agreed values/deductables alone does not give an acurrate assesment.



Bud

 

[oguidry]

We have a newer boat - a 2019 Back Cove 32. Got my recent renewal and it was a pretty good jump. Previous insurance thread had several posters with Chubb so I asked our local agent about Chubb. They came back with a Chubb quote about same as our currant policy and a second company - American Modern.

American Modern was about half of the Chubb quote and our current policy. Anyone ever deal with American Modern. Any thoughts about why they would be so much less?

 

[AlanT]

American Modern was about half of the Chubb quote and our current policy. Anyone ever deal with American Modern. Any thoughts about why they would be so much less?

The following comments relate to Homeowners coverage. Marine is a "specialty" market, so take those factors in consideration when reading.

American Modern Insurance is a specialty insurance company, offering insurance to homeowners who can't find adequate coverage from mainstream companies. Home insurance shoppers are very unlikely to find the lowest premiums for insurance at American Modern. However, the company has satisfactory customer service reviews, which puts it ahead of some other specialty insurers.

Overall, we found that American Modern has about average reviews for its customer service. The company has a rating from the NAIC of 1.17, meaning that it received slightly more complaints than can be expected relative to its size. The most common issue cited in customer complaints were delays in processing and paying out claims. However, smaller and more niche insurance companies are known for having substandard service, since there is limited competition. As such, American Modern's ratings should be considered satisfactory given its market position.

American Modern insurance has excellent financial ratings. It received an A+ rating from A.M. Best, meaning that the company has very strong financial practices and that customers should not be concerned about the company's ability to pay out future claims.

 

[Pau Hana]

Hi Folks,

I am a new owner of a Grand Banks 42 1999 she is beautiful but no one wants to insure a 20 year old boat any more. The quotes are outrageous.$4000.00 plus. I have been with USAA for 30 years no claims. They sent me to Progressive which just cancelled my policy because she is 20 years old.

I imagine this is a issue all of us older boat owners are grappling with.

I will keep you posted. Any feedback is welcome.

Thanks

Lots of insurers will write a 1999 vessel with the standard stipulations (survey, experience, navigation area, loss history, etc). PM me with your specifics and I'll do my best to assist.

We have a newer boat - a 2019 Back Cove 32. Got my recent renewal and it was a pretty good jump. Previous insurance thread had several posters with Chubb so I asked our local agent about Chubb. They came back with a Chubb quote about same as our currant policy and a second company - American Modern.

American Modern was about half of the Chubb quote and our current policy. Anyone ever deal with American Modern. Any thoughts about why they would be so much less?

American Modern is cheaper for a reason- coverage (or lack thereof!).

In their policy language, Definitions section:

• "Accident" means a direct, sudden, and accidental casualty of specific unforeseen event caused by an external cause. "Accident" specifically does not mean; (a) the results of the ordinary action of wind, weather, and waves on the covered yacht.
  

In the Property Section, "occurrences" are covered. When you go to the Definitions to find "occurrence", it is defined as an "accident". Above is what is covered under "accident".

So, translation: if your vessel is dockside and is damaged due to high winds, or your trailered vessel is crushed by a tree limb affected by a high wind (but not named storm)- American Modern has the right to deny the claim coverage because those situations could be defined as "normal" weather events.

Not of great benefit to the policyholder... I'm not a fan.

 

[Roger L]

Mainship 2006 34 trawler insurance cost

Anyone have insurance cost for 2006 Mainship 34 trawler? Boat US just quoted me $4100 in NE

 

[Pau Hana]

Anyone have insurance cost for 2006 Mainship 34 trawler? Boat US just quoted me $4100 in NE

Lots of variables go into the yearly cost of insurance- but $4100 sounds excessively high for a NE based risk.

Pm me or email me (peter@novamar.net) and I should be able to assist.

 

[quinsky]

I'm selling my 36ft trawler and looking to buy a 49ft boat with LOA 55'. Geico/BoatUS said they would not insure it because its more than 15ft longer than my current boat. I asked if there was anything I could do to get coverage, ie. hire a captain, get my captains license, etc. Nope. Just have to buy a smaller boat. After insuring 8 boats over 38yrs with Boat/US, I'm done with them. My friend got coverage for his first ever boat which is 46ft. I'm calling his broker.

 

[SteveK]

I'm selling my 36ft trawler and looking to buy a 49ft boat with LOA 55'. Geico/BoatUS said they would not insure it because its more than 15ft longer than my current boat. I asked if there was anything I could do to get coverage, ie. hire a captain, get my captains license, etc. Nope. Just have to buy a smaller boat. After insuring 8 boats over 38yrs with Boat/US, I'm done with them. My friend got coverage for his first ever boat which is 46ft. I'm calling his broker.

my 36 is actually 40 feet overall. Do you have a 32 with overall measurement of 36?

 

[quinsky]

my 36 is actually 40 feet overall. Do you have a 32 with overall measurement of 36?

I have a 34 with a LOA of 36. I'm not sure how the builder came up with 34. The specs state a "hull length" of 32'9" and a LOA of 36. I think thats LWL.

 

[SteveK]

I have a 34 with a LOA of 36.

34 + 15 = 49
The point I was trying to make is did the insurance guy measure both the same way.

 

[quinsky]

34 + 15 = 49
The point I was trying to make is did the insurance guy measure both the same way.

I see your point but they asked for total length of both boats. 55 - 36 = 19. In retrospect I could have played dumb and given the brand length but with my luck they would figure it out after I bought the boat.