Wireless kill switch

This question was asked a few months ago and got zero responses. I'll try again.

Has anyone installed or used one of these systems? I'm looking at the ACR Guardian but similar systems are available from Fell and others. I almost ordered the Guardian this week.

Essentially you wear or carry a small transponder, and if you go in the water the system kills the motor. As a solo traveler this seems like a very good thing.

Comments/advice? I've checked all the wiring requirements and it looks like a simple install.

Jeff F said:

This question was asked a few months ago and got zero responses. I'll try again.

Has anyone installed or used one of these systems? I'm looking at the ACR Guardian but similar systems are available from Fell and others. I almost ordered the Guardian this week.

Essentially you wear or carry a small transponder, and if you go in the water the system kills the motor. As a solo traveler this seems like a very good thing.

Comments/advice? I've checked all the wiring requirements and it looks like a simple install.

Click to expand...

Never heard of such a thing but it does sound appealing. I solo quite a bit and have often though of what it would be like to watch my boat cruising away from me at 7 knots as I float in 50 degree water.

They're mostly targeted at small boats, but I think they should get attention for all.

ACR OLAS GUARDIAN - ACR ARTEX

I bought a system years ago, don’t recall the brand, and basically had nothing but trouble with it. They may be better now though.

Jeff F said:

They're mostly targeted at small boats, but I think they should get attention for all.

ACR OLAS GUARDIAN - ACR ARTEX

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That looks really nice if it worked well.

I replaced the kill switch lanyard on my 28' CC with a Fell wireless system a couple of years ago. It works great and can protect more than just the driver if using multiple MOB wrist bands. But I don't have anything like this on our 46' cruising boat.

I did the math on these and decided that they were not of much use, certainly not as useful as wearing a PFD with a signal device. The gizmo takes some seconds to shut down the engine assuming a good radio transmission. If a small boat on plane, it might be a quarter mile away by the time it stops coasting. Even the old school kill switch tether that stops an OB engine immediately can make for a very long swim if on plane. A large trawler would coast farther, and with the increased windage, it might also be a quarter mile away. Kind of like boating and wearing a parachute for safety. If it makes you feel safer, that could be dangerous.

Marco Flamingo said:

I did the math on these and decided that they were not of much use, certainly not as useful as wearing a PFD with a signal device. The gizmo takes some seconds to shut down the engine assuming a good radio transmission. If a small boat on plane, it might be a quarter mile away by the time it stops coasting. Even the old school kill switch tether that stops an OB engine immediately can make for a very long swim if on plane. A large trawler would coast farther, and with the increased windage, it might also be a quarter mile away. Kind of like boating and wearing a parachute for safety. If it makes you feel safer, that could be dangerous.

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Nothing is perfect, but the acrartex system linked above will shut down the engine 2 seconds after the tab is immersed in water. I’d have to do some more research but I think it could be very useful. Sure it doesn’t replace a PFD, but it doesn’t claim to.

The system has some other potential benefits. If everyone on the boat has one of these on them, it would provide immediate feedback if anyone went overboard. If I am in the pilothouse and my wife somehow goes overboard from the stern, I won’t ever notice until I try to find her. This would make that immediately apparent.

Marco, I think I'd take my chances of trying to swim 1/4 mile to my drifting boat, rather than trying to swim 20 miles to shore . . . JMHO

I'd think the odds of finding you would improve if you're nearer the boat. 1/4 mile from it is certainly better than boat continuing to plod forward until it runs aground and they try to plot a reverse course for a search. I'd definitely consider one if traveling solo for any duration, because accidents/mistakes happen.

My concern with gizmos like these is having yet another thing with a battery. Wearables always have to make the compromise between battery life and portability, especially the ones expected to be worn like a wristwatch. The personal beacons are lot 'less worse' in that regard. When solo I keep mine in the pocket of my PFD.

I like the idea for solo cruising even though I strongly dislike modern electronic controls.

Every few weeks there is a you tube video about a boat causing havoc when the boat took control of itself. Nothing the owner could do to regain control. I can imagine the kill switch shutting things down at a very inopportune time like approaching a lock, dock or in a narrow channel.

I guess I am just old school

pete

wkearney99 said:

I'd think the odds of finding you would improve if you're nearer the boat. 1/4 mile from it is certainly better than boat continuing to plod forward until it runs aground and they try to plot a reverse course for a search.

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I've never thought much about it, but I'd guess that more that 75% of my boating is within 1/4 mile of shore. And my boat running up on the beach is much more noticeable than me bobbing in the chop. It would likely run aground sooner than I could swim 1/4 mile in my clothes, with or without a PFD. Most places running aground would get a lot of attention and calls to the authorities whereas a boat that stops for lunch or fishing draws no attention. Devil's advocate again: The boat continuing on and running ashore might be more likely to save me than the kill switch gizmo. A difficult and unpleasant risk analysis.

The 1/4 mile theory would be easy to test on any particular boat. Toss a throwable pfd overboard, wait 2 seconds, and put engine in neutral. If they work and are reliable, I like the idea of knowing that someone else on board fell off and the capt not knowing about it immediately.

I'm considering this system as well, not so much the engine shut off portion of it, but just getting notifications if a passenger went overboard. If I did use the shut off portion, I'd want to wire it for an override switch, only turn on the shut off portion when underway solo, not while docking or maneuvering in tight quarters to eliminate the chance of accidental shutdown in those situations.

The system captures the Lat/Lon of the overboard event, so you can return to that point to start your search. Does anyone have direct experience with the ACR/Olas system (from any of their options, not just the guardian)?

In order for a similar system to let you know if anyone fell overboard, you would have have transmitters on ALL of your PFD's, and enforce the use of them anytime anyone leaves the cabin . . . which is a good idea at any time, but not one that many enforce . . .

slowgoesit said:

In order for a similar system to let you know if anyone fell overboard, you would have have transmitters on ALL of your PFD's, and enforce the use of them anytime anyone leaves the cabin . . . which is a good idea at any time, but not one that many enforce . . .

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The Guardian system has a device (tab) that is worn on the wrist like a watch. It connects via bluetooth I believe to the central unit. When the Tab is submerged, out of range, or turned off, it not longer is in contact with the central unit which then activates.

One of the things that I find appealing is that it doesn’t have to be attached to a PFD. Each Tab can be designated to trigger an alarm or also shut down the engine.

Yes the OLAS/Guardian system uses a wristband device worn like a watch. The claim it's battery (which is replaceable) lasts almost 5 months of continuous tracking.

I mainly have it in mind for children and pets. You can start with just a single wristband device and track it with a phone or tablet. You can upgrade whenever you like to the Guardian to use as a receiver instead of a tablet and it works with the same wristband trackers and allows you to integrate engine shutdown if you want, the app still runs on a tablet / phone to perform setup and see GPS coordinates of an MOB event.

I am curious to hear from anyone that has actual experience with the system though, the marketing sounds good, but what is the reality of the system?

sbman said:

I am curious to hear from anyone that has actual experience with the system though, the marketing sounds good, but what is the reality of the system?

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I'm going to get one and try it out. It may be a few months but will report back.

Thanks for the discussion. It's helped me to evaluate my needs. I'd say that for me I'm not counting on getting back aboard unassisted, but having the kill switch makes it more likely I'll have a boat to return to should I survive. And my boat could do some real damage to property underway on AP. It seems like a socially responsible thing to do.

Jeff

Marco Flamingo said:

I did the math on these and decided that they were not of much use, certainly not as useful as wearing a PFD with a signal device. The gizmo takes some seconds to shut down the engine assuming a good radio transmission. If a small boat on plane, it might be a quarter mile away by the time it stops coasting. Even the old school kill switch tether that stops an OB engine immediately can make for a very long swim if on plane. A large trawler would coast farther, and with the increased windage, it might also be a quarter mile away. Kind of like boating and wearing a parachute for safety. If it makes you feel safer, that could be dangerous.

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It's about more than just the helmsman or passenger getting back to his boat....

One of the recent videos I watched on youtube was a Coast Guard profile show...some channel called DangerTV
one of the calls they highlighted was a runaway boat.... a twenty something foot center console on plane, wide open throttle, at night, no lights on... they guy fell off. They had to clear the area (boats on anchor, etc.) for hours and let it run out of gas....in a busy harbor, Miami area I think it was....

and then another episode showing a guy that was cut by a prop. The Boatswains Mate said that he'd been on two other prop strikes previously and neither of them made it.

I think the idea of it seems wonderful. I'm guilty of not wearing the clip on lanyard on a small boat but I'm reconsidering that... on a big boat though, I can still imagine there's some risk...but having a string lanyard makes less sense.

Like others though, I'm doubtful....reliability of wireless things, keeping up with fresh batteries, actually wearing the thing,....all sorts of loophole problems...

Just brainstorming....I'm reminded years ago of operators in papermill control rooms were often set up with a button they had to press periodically. I don't recall if they were set up to actually initiate a shutdown or what.... Seems like I remember a periodic buzzer and they'd press a button to reset it. I recall one guy that would lay back in his chair with a cut off broom stick in hand....looked like he was sleeping. The buzzer would barely sound and he reach up to the button high up on the overhead panel with the stick...without ever opening his eyes.
Some kind of a Deadman switch system like that might be of some help too... my car even has it...a capacitance system that knows when I let go of the wheel.

Jeff F said:

I'm going to get one and try it out. It may be a few months but will report back.

Thanks for the discussion. It's helped me to evaluate my needs. I'd say that for me I'm not counting on getting back aboard unassisted, but having the kill switch makes it more likely I'll have a boat to return to should I survive. And my boat could do some real damage to property underway on AP. It seems like a socially responsible thing to do.

Jeff

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I'll look forward to your report. I'm planning to at least get a wristband and try it with some MOB drills to see how well it works. My use case at the moment will be in the bay only for children and pets. The automatic shutoff isn't of much interest to me at this point.

I also look forward to a report. The idea of wearing it as a wristband is curious. If I fall overboard and the band operates as quickly as stated, starting to transmit in two seconds, I'm not sure that really helps. I'll be treading water as the boat moves away, hopefully dealing with my inflatable PFD. Without a PFD, my wrist will likely be 2 feet below the water surface. Say the boat is now 100 feet away and the receiver is 4 feet above the water line. Simple math means that the radio signal will have to travel 33 feet through the water and 66 feet through the air. I'm not worried about the air, but a WiFi signal through 33 feet of water? Just don't see it. I think the fob needs to be on the top of my head (time to get a patent on that idea). And some people say wearing a PFD looks silly.

If the band has to be above the water surface to operate effectively, just keep calm and remember to raise the correct arm as high as possible. And instruct any children and pets wearing the device. I don't buy it, but I'm glad somebody did and will report.

Marco Flamingo said:

I also look forward to a report. The idea of wearing it as a wristband is curious. If I fall overboard and the band operates as quickly as stated, starting to transmit in two seconds, I'm not sure that really helps. I'll be treading water as the boat moves away, hopefully dealing with my inflatable PFD. Without a PFD, my wrist will likely be 2 feet below the water surface. Say the boat is now 100 feet away and the receiver is 4 feet above the water line. Simple math means that the radio signal will have to travel 33 feet through the water and 66 feet through the air. I'm not worried about the air, but a WiFi signal through 33 feet of water? Just don't see it. I think the fob needs to be on the top of my head (time to get a patent on that idea). And some people say wearing a PFD looks silly.

If the band has to be above the water surface to operate effectively, just keep calm and remember to raise the correct arm as high as possible. And instruct any children and pets wearing the device. I don't buy it, but I'm glad somebody did and will report.

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That's not how it works. The wristband transmits a signal all the time and it is received by a device on the boat (tablet/phone or guardian receiver). If the signal from the wristband is not received on the boat (wristband too far away or underwater) then the alarm goes off and you see the GPS coords of where the the boat was when the wristband departed the boat.

sbman said:

The wristband transmits a signal all the time

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Got it. So much for making my fortune with the MOB beany.

It's very helpful to solo traveler or cruising with children, And it's not hard thing to installation.

Following

It sounds like a great idea. I saw a small runaway dinghy some time ago and the guy in the water trying to re-board. I’ll never operate without the kill switch again.

Best case the boat runs away and is never seen again, or runs aground and stalls or more likely over revs and blows the engine.

Next best case is it smashes into another boat or some structure and gets trapped.

Worst case the guy trying to get back on gets hit by the prop, something that seems very likely as you try to grab and board a quick moving boat while in the water. If you are luck you just get maimed, and if unlucky you bleed out and die.

You getting separated from the boat by a 100m or so as the boat shuts down would be a very, very good thing.

Following . . . question though. If, among other thing, the MOB system shuts the engine off when the wearer of the pendant goes a certain distance away, or signal is lost, is there an override to allow someone still on the boat to restart the engine? If not, all they can do is watch you drift farther away from the boat, and the boat is now no longer able to move . . . .

I assume there has GOT to be a way, perhaps just turning off an onboard alarm will allow the engine to be restarted, allowing the boat to return (slowly) to pick up the person who went overboard.

Websites I've looked at are high on"flash", but very low on details. Guess you have to buy it to see what it is you bought.

If I had a pet onboard and it went over the side, the next splash would be me going over the side to get the pet and we could both watch the boat disappear over the horizon. And that is the reason I do not have a pet onboard.
Just a personal decision.

OldDan1943 said:

If I had a pet onboard and it went over the side, the next splash would be me going over the side to get the pet and we could both watch the boat disappear over the horizon. And that is the reason I do not have a pet onboard.
Just a personal decision.

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You wouldn't kill the engine and grab a flotation cushion before jumping?

backinblue said:

You wouldn't kill the engine and grab a flotation cushion before jumping?

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My lab could swim but hated it. He would sooner dig his claws into me and use me as a float.