New to boating and need a big boat

One thing that has been true for my family is that you learn a lot of lessons the hard way. If it happens to work out that you get a starter boat for weekend trips or week long trips, you will also be able to work out a lot of bugs with that boat.

Just this weekend, I was working with my 12 year old on docking. We were headed into the dock, when my wife tells me the docking assignments all changed. The wind was very high and I had a 60’ boat right on my stern. I never should have had a 12 year at the helm in that moment. The lesson I learned was not to combine training for the kids with sticky situations. Seems obvious right? But when you get joy from working with your kids, it will cloud your judgement. Nothing major happened this time, but that mistake could have cost us thousands of dollars.

I would highly recommend you contact Captain Chris in Vero Beach, Florida.
He and his wife, Captain Alyse can cover all your questions and training needs.
They can guide you in the boat selection process and training needs you in all the skills you will need.
Based upon their certification that you have accomplished all skills and experience you may be able to get through the insurance problems.

lwarden said:

Have you seen Gus's new purchase, a 70' Broward? He's in for a real experience with that one...

Sorry for the thread drift....

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Oh to be in my 20's again!!!! LOL

FourtunateSons said:

So I've driven some small boats before but not many, and I'm wanting to get into the trawler life with my family (wife 4 teenage boys, 1 of which is in college so won't be here most of the time.) I will be needing a good sized boat but know very little about insurance and who to hire or where to train to become confident in handling such a boat. My budget affords something built in the 80's i.e. Hatteras, OA, Cheoy Lee etc. I will mostly be cruising the eastern US and Canada with hopes of one day taking it through the Panama Canal to get to the west coast and Alaska. I don't look to do much bluewater but it would be nice if I had the capability. Any advice is welcome.

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This is me also in the next 2 months

Welcome aboard, and I hope that the sense you are getting from this thread is that pretty much everybody wants you to succeed, but each responder has a different life experience getting to their cruising boat. Ownership-wise I jumped from a canoe to a 1972 woodie Grand Banks 42, so there's that about my approach. However, I was an active-duty senior naval officer with command at sea in my background. Thus, the planning, navigating and handling the boat was second nature. What was NOT second nature was, engine and generator, and general hull maintenance. I mean, I knew they all needed doing and quickly generated a planned maintenance system, BUT actually performing all those tasks was new. Finding parts and advice (like you can get here) in those pre-internet days was a challenge.

You sound to me like somebody who will enjoy the journey of learning and adapting rather than wanting to go "poof" I'm a cruiser and that you will take the family through that process with you. what an absolutely incredible opportunity to apply and expand the boy's education.

FourtunateSons said:

So I've driven some small boats before but not many, and I'm wanting to get into the trawler life with my family (wife 4 teenage boys, 1 of which is in college so won't be here most of the time.) I will be needing a good sized boat but know very little about insurance and who to hire or where to train to become confident in handling such a boat. My budget affords something built in the 80's i.e. Hatteras, OA, Cheoy Lee etc. I will mostly be cruising the eastern US and Canada with hopes of one day taking it through the Panama Canal to get to the west coast and Alaska. I don't look to do much bluewater but it would be nice if I had the capability. Any advice is welcome.

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I am doing the same but with no kids. LOL I have been looking for 2 years, pulled the trigger on 1986 Chung Hwa, failed survey miserably. Cost me $2k with haul out but saved me$60k. Be sure to get a survey. The get a Captain is good advice. I have been on and around small boats all my life ( own 26 foot deep V Maxum ) .When I got on that 46 foot Chung Hwa bridge I was like hell no i cant drive this. LMAO

FourtunateSons said:

My family (wife 4 teenage boys, 1 of which is in college so won't be here most of the time.)

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Here is an honest answer, that I have no intention of offending you with.....

Don't drag your children into your mid-life crisis. I get the desire to go. However, it is likely not their dream.
The vagabond life is going to make it very difficult to maintain and establish friends, have girlfriends, etc. Sure it is a unique opportunity, but it removes a lot of other opportunities from their teen years.

Let them live their own lives and grow up. Then go chase your dream. Buy a smaller boat that you can all weekend on in the meantime.

Let’s remember how this tread started. I paraphrase “ i don’t know much about boats”, “my budget says I can only afford an old boat”, “ I need a big boat”

Lack of knowledge equals expensive, old boat equals expensive, big boat equals expensive. To anyone else having this dream, IT‘S AN EXPENSIVE DREAM. Even if you can do all your own work the bigger the boat the more expensive the parts bill.

tiltrider1 said:

Let’s remember how this tread started. I paraphrase “ i don’t know much about boats”, “my budget says I can only afford an old boat”, “ I need a big boat”

Lack of knowledge equals expensive, old boat equals expensive, big boat equals expensive. To anyone else having this dream, IT‘S AN EXPENSIVE DREAM. Even if you can do all your own work the bigger the boat the more expensive the parts bill.

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Yep...and the costs can go up geometrically and the boat gets bigger....not for everything, but overall.

If the OP can afford $15k-$20k per year (slip, insurance, diver, haul, and other standard ownership costs - excluding capital costs), for a reasonably good condition GB42 plus have some reserves for for upgrades and surprise repairs, chances are he won't have stupid surprises, at least on the ongoing expense side of the ledger (surprise expenses are, well, surprises and can be quite startling).

I think old salts on forums like TF get wrapped around the axle on questions like this. Newbies just don't know so a broad spectrum of costs helps them qualify themselves and move to the next step of discovery. People are generally pretty bright - they understand there are variables. But in the absence of information, even a broad range is helpful.

Peter

I don't get wrapped around the axle on questions like this, I have posted in the past and will now, that questions like this signal people need a face to face to get a good answer. Piecemealing it and the back and forth about what is reality (as I said from a narrow point of view all too often) loses too many and they wind up seeking face to face discussions anyway.

Specific questions on forums get answered well by simple answers.... hardly ever the non-specific ones.

Been there, done that hundreds of time with both forums and boaters I get acquainted with.

Either way, face to face or forum....till one narrows things down a bit even the brightest person is confused by the generalities in the wide, wide world of boating.

Frankly, if you are inexperienced and you think you need more than a 40’ boat, you are doomed. Now one in a thousand might make it work but that person could build his own house, rebuild his own engine and isn’t on this forum asking questions cause he already knows the answers.

There is just such a world of difference between 40’ and 55’ that I just can’t explain it to a newbie. If you had given me a 55’ boat 30 years ago would I have succeeded? No! It’s because of all my experience at 34 feet that I was able to handle 42’ and the some 10 years later I was ready for 54’.

I say this on the hopes that newbie’s are doing some research. With boats, smaller is usually better unless you have the money to higher a professional crew.

IMO insurance may be your biggest hurdle... I'm no expert there so I'd recommend doing your own research / contact. Insuring a 40 yr old boat can be a problem and adding lack of experience will complicate the situation. An ins Co should be able to give you some specific requirements to insure you and a 40 yr old 50ish fter. Chartering with a Capt will likely be reqd as I doubt you will be able to charter a bare boat. The good news is the charter hrs with a Capt should count towards satisfying req'd training and itnwill providevreal life experience for all concerned
In the neantime I wouldvstart taking all the traing courses you possibly can... USCG /Amer Boating Club courses and/ or start studying for a Capt License..

Agreed about insurance, old boats, and boats over 40 feet or so all being significant hurdles. Plus the question of whether the teenagers will really like it. I will also add that if you are counting on ever having a slip anywhere, that gets very difficult above 50' in many areas.

The reality over time is different from the dream. Among the ways to bring them together: charter and try it with no risk (except $). Or start smaller with a boat in the mid 30 range and use that to learn and try the lifestyle for a season. It would not be any lost $ really because it would pay off in a better choice.

I would strongly argue against jumping straight into a 50+ foot boat without some kind of prior experience (and insurance companies and banks will likely agree).

As far as I can tell, a high % of new boats that are sold to new boaters (at the entry level, like Ranger Tugs etc) are resold within 1-2 years because the reality didn't match expectations. For an older boat, it can be more difficult to resell ... so the risk there is higher.

At a minimum, boats are so different from one another in their "fit" for any person that the odds of buying the right one, without experience, would be low IMO.

I wish the OP the best but I want also to be honest from my perspective, as requested!

Nordhavn has made a business out of selling big, expensive boats to folks with near zero experience for almost 40 years. Won't be easy, won't be inexpensive. But people jump the line into a large boat all the time. Takes a team and a checkbook.

Peter

mvweebles said:

Nordhavn has made a business out of selling big, expensive boats to folks with near zero experience for almost 40 years. Won't be easy, won't be inexpensive. But people jump the line into a large boat all the time. Takes a team and a checkbook.

Peter

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Yep. And new, and with high resale value. If the OP has $ for a Nordhavn then there is low risk (apart from short term $ while figuring it out).

sjisailor said:

Yep. And new, and with high resale value. If the OP has $ for a Nordhavn then there is low risk (apart from short term $ while figuring it out).

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Point being that there are people/companies out there who have figured out how to knock down impediments to boat ownership. The monolithic advice from many forums is "start small, start young, and someday you'll be worthy enough to own a boat big enough to cruise on." That's one path, and it's workable. But not only path.

I guess there's a reason Nordhavn has a walled garden approach to their ownership groups.

Peter

Here is some more help....


Here is one section that I liked...

"10. Talk to Everyone. When it comes to boats everyone has an opinion. Ask questions. Listen. There is a lot of baloney out there but there is also a lot of experience and knowledge. In particular talk to people who have owned the brands and the models that you are considering. Generally, boat owners do not trash the brand they own so don’t expect criticism. You must probe into areas that you care about, such as performance, sea kindliness, customer service, electrical reliability, quality of construction, etc. We have found if we ask specific questions about how an owner likes certain aspects of his boat, we will get an honest answer.

Lack of Knowledge equals expensive, Big boat equals expensive, Ocean crossing quality yacht equals expensive. Nordhavn equals very expensive.

Don’t get me wrong, I am a Nordhavn fan.

FourtunateSons said:

So I've driven some small boats before but not many, and I'm wanting to get into the trawler life with my family (wife 4 teenage boys, 1 of which is in college so won't be here most of the time.) I will be needing a good sized boat but know very little about insurance and who to hire or where to train to become confident in handling such a boat. My budget affords something built in the 80's i.e. Hatteras, OA, Cheoy Lee etc. I will mostly be cruising the eastern US and Canada with hopes of one day taking it through the Panama Canal to get to the west coast and Alaska. I don't look to do much bluewater but it would be nice if I had the capability. Any advice is welcome.

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Concentrate your boat search on trawlers just coming off the loop, and with documentation of a refit in the very recent past. The price point will be higher but the PO will likely absorb a good portion of their actual investments as just the cost of the experience. Still, you will need to prove their claims with professional surveys, and be prepared to go on the hard for a period to address the issues you are buying knowingly, and those the surveyor, you, or the PO did not anticipate.

Biggest problems we faced international cruising.
When things break you are in a brand new place. Even with internet and international shipping getting parts is difficult, time consuming and expensive. Add in customs difficulties and lack of local knowledge quite a hassle.
A new boat or new to you boat has systems that are new to you. Sometimes repair requires knowing the tricks that are either taught by a knowledgeable wrench or by screwing it up by yourself. Simple things like replacing the motherboard in an AC unit or reprogramming a CPU looks easy as pie. But often there’s no YouTube or other internet source to walk you through it. Things that are in common usage in your cruising area is beneficial. Look outside so called “marine”sources for parts and work arounds. With repairs stock your tool chest with tools aimed specifically at your infrastructure. Have been tortured by not having the “right” tool for the job. Particularly with the limited access to many mechanical parts of a boat. Hate the need to have to take something that’s perfect apart to get to the something that’s broken. Extra hours.
Don’t care the size of the boat. It’s huge on the hard and small in the water. Cruised full time with the bride on 46’, two heads, two staterooms, double quarter berth and said to sleep 7. It was barely big enough with 95% just us 2 and the rest either an extra couple while cruising a new cruising ground or 2-3 while on passage. Time alone is key. Each person having their own dedicated space is key. Not only for sleeping but also for activities of daily living. This just as true for adolescents as adults. Remember theirs no going for a walk
In short the skill set can be acquired. The schooling doesn’t teach you the realities of doing it while cruising. Only cruising does that. But it’s the social/emotional stuff that needs sorting out. We were lucky and able to keep a dirt dwelling while cruising. A few weeks there at Xmas and again another one or two breaks away from the boat during the year. That was huge for mental health and change of scenery. Several families told us they do a variation. Send a kid away to an aunt/uncle or grandparents to get the same effect. Just saying there’s two issues with long time cruising. The boat issues and the life issues. Have a plan for both.

The high standards that this site suggests to shove off from the dock are not necessary in the beginning. The only skill you need to shove off is the skill to drive back to the dock. Most of the rest of the skills will come from driving your boat around.

I suggest you start practicing now, for a 5-10 year start date. Buy and and dock an older boat on any close body of water. This will give you and any of your interested children skills at fixing, maintaining and improving boats. If it is not just a party dock you will also see what other boaters do and find some are good and some not.

While you are at this stage learn the apps for weather, navigating etc. I learned the apps while traveling around the loop. This led to some brainfarts like being in the Atlantic during a small craft advisory. Speaking of the loop, check out the AGLCA, they are a great organization. Go to one of their convos and you will get to talk to people, who have motored around the eastern half of the US for 20 years all the way down to those in the same boat as you, at the dream stage.

The family aspect is covered at the convos but not as completely as the boating aspect. There are several YouTube channels out there about families living on boats. Sailing Zatara (sp?) is about a family that went around the world on a catamaran. It will give you some idea of the issues of teens on a boat.

I too had RVs before jumping into the boat world. There is little overlap in skills from RVs to boats. In the RV world you pull over to the side when you have a problem and fix it or call a tow truck. In the boating world it is much more complicated to pull over as the boat does not sit still while parked. You will call towboats when you are truly stuck and not while you are frantically trying to figure out why you have no steering as you careen towards an obstacle.

My message is to start. It is easy to start and challenging to build experience.

Lots of good info here, and a lot of doom and gloom. With the OPs background, it's entirely possible that he and his family could fit into a 45 to 50 ft boat and live the dream. They have already been doing this, so it's just a transition to Boating. I've never been and RVer, but from what my friends tell me, the maintenance costs are comparable.
You don't have to spend $25k a year to operate a boat, but you might. Even then, that's not a huge amount of money, especially if ones income have kept up with inflation.
I foresee the biggest obstacle is the kids out growing the "family life" and want to start young lives of their own, so that needs to be addressed.
With an older boat, there's less of a need for insurance.
Being handy really helps, but being knowledgeable is more important.
The engines will most likely be the least of the expenses, but systems can be pricey. Knowing what's needed will help, especially electrical.
I say go for it!