Wireless Docking Remote Controls - What's The Magic Number?

We put thrusters on our current boat. My wife will not go out on the bow due to balance issues. Our thrusters are external due to interior logistics. They came with a wireless joystick and a wireless fob. I use the fob when I go onto the dock to handle lines so I can keep the boat up against the dock during the time it takes to secure it. It is really handy. I don’t need or care for wireless controls for the engines.

twistedtree said:

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But Dockmate basically screwed themselves out of a deal. I discovered that in Europe, a full Dockmate for my boat would cost less than 6k eu. That I would have bought in the spot, but no, that would be too simple. With any ship to or installation in North America, you have to go through the US subsidiary, and the US pricing is 2x the EU pricing. WTF. So I pressed the US guys, and told them I’d be happy to pay the EU price and move ahead, but that I wasn’t going to pay 2x for no reason. I got the expected song and dance back, so told him I’d just buy it when I have the boat in Europe. If I could get someone in Europe to sell to me, I’d do it, but the thing still needs to be configured and adjusted post installation, and that runs right back into the territory issue. Oh well. I like the Dockmate, but just in principle I won’t pay 2x because of where I live. I now have an even greater sympathy for my AU and NZ friends who have to deal with this all the time.

[SNIP]

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Yep this exact practice killed my desire to go all Furuno on my electronics refit!

vertigopilot said:

Yes, I am, but I don't want to run afoul of forum rules, so feel free to DM me and I'll be glad to share details.


BTW: We've crossed wakes a few times this past season. It's always a pleasure to see your fine vessel, either underway or at the dock. We'll be cruising between Sidney and Nanaimo for Christmas until New Year. Honk if you see us!

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I think it would have been nice for you to identify yourself as a commercial member from the start. You seem to be fishing for a price point for a product you manufacture or distribute.
I don’t think it’s a bad thing to be asking for the information, on the contrary, I think it’s good to be communicating with your potential audience. Just be up front about it.

Bmarler said:

I think it would have been nice for you to identify yourself as a commercial member from the start. You seem to be fishing for a price point for a product you manufacture or distribute.
I don’t think it’s a bad thing to be asking for the information, on the contrary, I think it’s good to be communicating with your potential audience. Just be up front about it.

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Yeah. What you said

So in the end is this entire thread about how high a price are we willing to pay for his product?

I have looked into the dock mate when first purchasing the boat and was learning the dockeing. 19k 2 years ago. Decided not to due do to other items that were more pressing.

I am working on 2 things at this point.
1 a camera system for security, awareness underway, and docking. ( I have a post going)

2 I purchased a glendenning joystick. I have full glendenning system with joystick that fully controls all motions including the bow and stern thrusters. I will post on this when i fugure it all out. I was planning on installing a joystick as a wing or rear station. I think I am going to install it on a long wire. It will rest in a caddy or cutout but be able to be lifted out with a fishing rod post on the bottom. That way I can place it in rod holders positioned around the boat. At least at first, it will be a hand held device. Untill if figure out if 1 location works all round. Most likely not. Im 65 loa and most of the new yachts like this have multiple docking stations.

All in $2300 with full function exactly the full functions I am used to. Gelendenning has a wired hand held version but its not a joystick. More like a game controller, I'm not good with this type of controller, I'm not great with my done controller. Still not conformable flying the drone. But no issues docking in close quarters on the joystick. Yea im Weird LOL

For only $300 you can get this and practise

Forum rules aside, I'd wager doing it this way is actually worse than just coming clean about what you are fishing for.

vertigopilot said:

Yes, I am, but I don't want to run afoul of forum rules, so feel free to DM me and I'll be glad to share details.


BTW: We've crossed wakes a few times this past season. It's always a pleasure to see your fine vessel, either underway or at the dock. We'll be cruising between Sidney and Nanaimo for Christmas until New Year. Honk if you see us!

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I have a yacht-controller that came with our GB EU 47. If it broke tomorrow, I would buy a new one in a second. I single hand 90% of the time, so with it, I can run, dock, anchor, and position the boat safely and easily. I could do it without, but it would be much more stressful and potentially more dangerous.

I see a lot of people mentioning docking stations but for instance, pulling up and washing down the anchor, in current and wind, in a tight anchorage by myself. I couldn't do it with a docking station, or safely without the controller.

I love it.

Serene said:

Yep this exact practice killed my desire to go all Furuno on my electronics refit!

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Yes, while writing that I was thinking of your experience in AU as an example.

twistedtree said:

Yes, while writing that I was thinking of your experience in AU as an example.

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FWT said:

Yeah. What you said

So in the end is this entire thread about how high a price are we willing to pay for his product?

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It appears that several have taken umbrage and mistaken my reason for asking the questions in my original post. I'm not trying to sell anything to anyone here, but merely sought to learn from some examples why it is that many choose to go without the significant safety and convenience improvements that come from having and using wireless docking controls. I may be guilty of being an evangelist, but I'm certainly not trolling for customers. It's disappointing that my inquiry engendered such a negative reaction. I hope that won't deter others from discovering the advantages of incorporating this technology category into their boating experience, regardless of which manufacturer's product they select.

Wired/tethered docking controls may be extremely affordable (particularly the home-cooked variety), but they fall well short of the potential of wireless controls.

When a relatively new member starts posting about buying something people assume that they are trying to sell something. It doesn’t hurt if you have something good to say about a product to state you have no affiliation with the product. Saves some confusion.

vertigopilot said:

It appears that several have taken umbrage and mistaken my reason for asking the questions in my original post. I'm not trying to sell anything to anyone here, but merely sought to learn from some examples why it is that many choose to go without the significant safety and convenience improvements that come from having and using wireless docking controls. I may be guilty of being an evangelist, but I'm certainly not trolling for customers. It's disappointing that my inquiry engendered such a negative reaction. I hope that won't deter others from discovering the advantages of incorporating this technology category into their boating experience, regardless of which manufacturer's product they select.

Wired/tethered docking controls may be extremely affordable (particularly the home-cooked variety), but they fall well short of the potential of wireless controls.

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Old thread, but I'll bite. I've run boats with both Yacht Controller and wired home-brew remotes. The wired home-brew remote has been 100% reliable and has control of everything...rudder, throttle/shift, and both thrusters. Yacht Controller glitched to no-control more often than it should and the one I used had no rudder control. No rudder control might be okay for a twin screw boat, but not a single in my opinion. Maybe some Yacht Controller models or competitors also offer rudder control?

vertigopilot said:

It appears that several have taken umbrage and mistaken my reason for asking the questions in my original post. I'm not trying to sell anything to anyone here, but merely sought to learn from some examples why it is that many choose to go without the significant safety and convenience improvements that come from having and using wireless docking controls. I may be guilty of being an evangelist, but I'm certainly not trolling for customers. It's disappointing that my inquiry engendered such a negative reaction.

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This was an odd post in that it resurrected an old thread. I reread the entire thread.

Evangelist? Was not the impression I had. Seemed you came with an agenda that was not fully disclosed which explains the reaction you received.

Peter

Remote controls, whether wired, or wireless, fall into the nice to have, but not needed category. A lot of us here have older vessels, and a mix of equipment being old or new, different manufacturers, etc…
For me, I’d have to put in electronic shift/throttle, and then figure out how to interface with the thrusters and auto pilot for a true control solution.
Since I have a mate with me, I can be the controller, and she is my hands. Works pretty well.

mvweebles said:

This was an odd post in that it resurrected an old thread. I reread the entire thread.

Evangelist? Was not the impression I had. Seemed you came with an agenda that was not fully disclosed which explains the reaction you received.

Peter

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I'm saddened that you took it that way. My inquiry was out of a genuine interest to understand better why some choose not to use equipment that they've indentified as beneficial or desirable. My sense was (and is) that the reasoning for that decision tends not to be purely price-related.

Comodave said:

When a relatively new member starts posting about buying something people assume that they are trying to sell something. It doesn’t hurt if you have something good to say about a product to state you have no affiliation with the product. Saves some confusion.

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That's fair advice, but really seems applicable only where one is promoting a particular vendor's product. If one expresses the opinion that thrusters are wonderful to have on a single-screw boat for example, it should not matter whether they are in the business of developing and installing such systems unless -- I suppose -- they do not themselves have a boat with such equipment.

I am unapologetically enthusiastic about the benefits of wireless docking controls (with or without rudder control). If I were not in the business of such systems I would pay full-boat for another manufacturer's system without hesitation. I believe I may have already disclosed that position.

Bmarler said:

Remote controls, whether wired, or wireless, fall into the nice to have, but not needed category. A lot of us here have older vessels, and a mix of equipment being old or new, different manufacturers, etc…
For me, I’d have to put in electronic shift/throttle, and then figure out how to interface with the thrusters and auto pilot for a true control solution.
Since I have a mate with me, I can be the controller, and she is my hands. Works pretty well.

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That's outstanding that you have a mate who enjoys sharing with you the pleasures of docking, and that your procedures work well for all conditions. My experience is very different in that I meet many boating couples who are not as blessed as you, and instead approach each docking event with dread, gnashing of teeth and a fair bit of yelling. For those that I've been able to help, there have been abundant tears of joy when then mate (or Admiral) is relieved of fire drill duty.

I may not be a superior yachtsman, but my wireless docking control sure makes me look like one to the Admiral!

vertigopilot said:

I'm saddened that you took it that way. My inquiry was out of a genuine interest to understand better why some choose not to use equipment that they've indentified as beneficial or desirable. My sense was (and is) that the reasoning for that decision tends not to be purely price-related.

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Read your posts with an objective eye and you might understand. For example (and this is a direct quote, though emphasis is mine):


Speaking of a loaded question! Sort of the classic "Do you still beat your spouse?" type of question.

Why do people "chose to go without a wireless solution?" Here are some bullets -

• Price - the benefits are not significant enough to offset the hefty price tag
• Reliability - wireless with a battery powered controller has inherent vulnerabilities; and haven't even started on added complexity.
• Questionable benefits - not all boats and not all situations will benefit
• Wing-station solution - fairly easy to add and bulletproof.
• Huckster sales and support model - TwistedTree related an interesting story about looking at them in FLIBS and Miami boat show. Frankly, this thread hasn't helped boost the niche's reputation much.

Hope this helps. Good luck with your efforts.

Peter

If I approached each docking with dread, I’d probably stop boating. Or, the better solution is to get some training. Approaching the dock with calm confidence is inspiring to your crew. No need for raised voices, plan ahead for conditions, be ready for surprises. It’s not rocket science.
I have friends with a brand new cruisers yacht with pod drives and dock assist software, among other automated features. The movements of the boat seem almost unnatural at times. Lots of money to develop those. It’s a solution to a problem that doesn’t really need to exist.
If I had a wireless remote, I’d probably use it, as it’s just another tool in the box, but it wouldn’t be at the top of my upgrade list for a very long time.

vertigopilot said:

There's no doubt that one can engineer their own wireless docking controller from readily-available components, varying in quality, reliability and price from cheap consumer-grade gadgets to serious industrial controllers. Adding wireless thruster control to previously fixed-control boat is a big improvement, but the real magic happens when adding gear-shifting control, giving the helmsman full wireless positional command of the vessel even when standing on the dock. Adding CANbus interfaces to newer equipment brings a few more layers of complexity, but is still reasonably accessible for those with enough motivation.

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It is a fair point but the counterpoint is that one can always justify an exorbitantly higher price for higher reliability that is not needed. I have a friend with Dockmate on an 86 ft power boat (he loves it) and I have wireless thruster control (Sidepower). So, I looked at adding wireless throttle/gear control to my MicroCommander 585CE electronic throttles.

It turns out, it is very easy. The remote throttles use 5k potentiometers connected to the levers. If it is at 2.5k ohms, the gear is in neutral. If pushed foward, it goes into gear at around 3.1k ohms, then increases rpm. Reverse is the same in reverse. Adding a third control station is just a couple of wires. So, using a very simple garage door opener ($40 on Amazon) with positive control (i.e. if pressed it engages, if released or loses connection it disconnects) gives you gear control and the forward speed can be adjusted through selecting appropriate resistors. I would assume most electronic constrol systems work in a similar way.

The question then is safety and failure modes. You mention the membrane button can fail... sure but then it will just go in neutral. May be it can get stuck closed. OK, then there is the off button (that the 585CE requires be installed). Then you can say, that switch can fail too. Well, the probability of two membrane switches (one stuck closed, the other stuck open) failing one after the other is miniscule. If really concerned about the remote, then one can get a crane remote that is waterproof, reliable, etc. The probability that the solid state relays in the control box will fail is not worth mentioning. Lastly, it is not so difficult to implement a dead man switch that puts the engines in neutral after 5-10 seconds of inactivity. Idle forward on one engine for 5 seconds is unlikely to total the boat. Lastly, most people would not use the wireless control to manuever the boat from the dock, rather they would use it from the cockpit and it is easy to install a kill switch in the cockpit.

I do understand that a big part of the cost to provide commercial remote control is testing, design, worldwide support, insurance, cost of potential lawsuits, certification with the control vendors, etc. But let's be realistic about the markup of anything boat related.

My understanding is captains of mega yachts and the commercial crowd still prefer wired over wireless. When docking little mistakes can make for big expensive damage. Plug in in the wheel house and you can walk to either side deck. Or plug in at the aft cockpit and you can move around easily to see what you need to see. I understand the sense of freedom that wireless gives but think reliability takes precedence.

My boat came with a stern docking station (throttle shift single lever, bow thruster, and jog lever to autopilot). As I used it for starboard side docking (my preferred side due to interior layout) and stern in docking, I fail to see what the added complexity (read additional failure points) of wireless had to offer. So far I've been unimpressed with the speed when shifting between forward to neutral to reverse with electronic engine controls. Maybe that's changed.

Ted

My spouse is a great partner when it comes to docking. She knows when and what to do, waiting for the correct moment to step off and secure the stern. Now that we will be cruising on a larger vessel my thoughts went to adding a remote docking device, which I have several many times in various PNW marinas. Based on cost I chose Yacht Controller over Dockmate, after several conversations with each provider. I am usually right outside the pilothouse, and with my spouse at the stern, Yacht Controller should make docking smoother, and I expect less stressful for us both. I also expect that we will reverse roles once she learns how to use the remote.

My friend was telling me that drones used to have two toggles to control flight and now newer ones have one joystick.

I am sure eventually driving a boat will become wireless as the new generation boater is evolving that way. why have a helm station when a tablet will do it all.

I'm looking into a remote. My boat has no stern docking station. There is simply no rear visibility from the pilot house, which means backing is done blindly. Even at idle reverse it is irresponsible and dangerous if one cannot see. Going out to the port or starboard sidedeck by the pilot house takes one away from the controls, and visibility to the stern is by no means 100%. I do have cameras. They help a little. I do have a "mate," and we practice and try to dock calmly and using the radio headsets. My mate gets nervous and commands like port or starboard, reverse or ahead, morph to stop now, hit it forward, hard left and sharp right, oh God, damn it and so on. Usually in a breathless or terrified tone. We have practiced a lot but spatial judgment is not her strong suit. The wireless remotes have the advantage of permitting me (the captain) to be anywhere when docking: on one of the the sides, directly at the stern, the helm, on the back of the boat deck, etc. My boat has a very long foredeck with a high bow. Coming up to a mooring sees the mooring ball disappear below the hull line at 20 feet out. The mate tries to guide, but spatial relations are not her strong point.

The controllers are expensive, but if it does not work, I'll probably save a lot of money by not being in boating.

I bought a dockmate. I back into my slip and have no aft vision from the pilot house. I did make a couple wifi cameras and was comfortable using them, but that didn't give me any help when deploying or retrievieng the anchor, or mooring. My Dockmate is engines only, plus anchor remote. I have no thrusters but my two props are 16 ft apart. Still more confortable backing in from the cockpit than watching monitors in the pilothouse. I usually switch to remote after entering the marina and heading down the raceway. One day I came in and stopped at the pumpout and switched to remote there. It was a particulatly windy day and when turning stbd off the pumpout I was unable to turn back port against the wind with only the idle speed offered by Dockmate. There was a little excitement switching back to helm control and actually getting there. I think there is an idle boost that would likely resolve this issue. BTW - it is always windy at this marina, even the wifi password includes the word windy - it was just a particularly bad wind day.

Captain_Michael said:

I'm looking into a remote. My boat has no stern docking station. There is simply no rear visibility from the pilot house, which means backing is done blindly. Even at idle reverse it is irresponsible and dangerous if one cannot see. Going out to the port or starboard sidedeck by the pilot house takes one away from the controls, and visibility to the stern is by no means 100%. I do have cameras. They help a little. I do have a "mate," and we practice and try to dock calmly and using the radio headsets. My mate gets nervous and commands like port or starboard, reverse or ahead, morph to stop now, hit it forward, hard left and sharp right, oh God, damn it and so on. Usually in a breathless or terrified tone. We have practiced a lot but spatial judgment is not her strong suit. The wireless remotes have the advantage of permitting me (the captain) to be anywhere when docking: on one of the the sides, directly at the stern, the helm, on the back of the boat deck, etc. My boat has a very long foredeck with a high bow. Coming up to a mooring sees the mooring ball disappear below the hull line at 20 feet out. The mate tries to guide, but spatial relations are not her strong point.

The controllers are expensive, but if it does not work, I'll probably save a lot of money by not being in boating.

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Sounds like the perfect use case for a remote. They are expensive, but cheaper than a divorce.

BTW - can anyone explain why they are so dang expensive?

Peter

I think I mentioned earlier I use a fob remote for my thrusters. I don’t have to have it, but like it.

FYI to anyone considering that route. Yesterday the fob battery died as I was wrapping up dock line chores. I was basically done so no big deal. The point is the fob and battery were just over a year old. Going forward I will be setting a calendar notification to replace the battery on a schedule. It’s a commonly available coin battery.

It’s easy to picture getting comfortable with these, and putting yourself into a position where its failure at a bad time is a big issue.

vertigopilot said:

I've noticed the opinion frequently expressed on the forum that wireless docking remote controls (Yacht Controller, Dockmate, etc.) are too expensive or not sufficiently useful to justify the cost. So, I'm wondering:


1. For those of you who have seriously considered adding one to your boat but didn't make the purchase, what was it that ultimately led to your decision?


2. If it was price/value, was there a magic number (or additional features) that would have changed that decision for you?


3. Have you ever tried out or personally observed the use of a wireless docking remote on a friend's boat?


4. What other gear won out for your boat upgrade spending?



These questions aren't aimed at the purists who refuse to have anything but mechanical controls for their engines, but only for those who do actually appreciate the merits of modern electronic propulsion controls.


Thanks in advance for your feedback!

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We added one with our recent purchase of a Sirena 58. It is our 11th boat, but first remote. We chose the Yacht Controller Maximo. We started with the joy stick version, but switched back to the toggles - much more intuitive and similar to being at the helm. I would never go back and not have one on a boat. It has been flawless thus far with traveling from Baltimore to FL and back to Charleston. I love the ability to get outside and see better, help with lines, make small adjustments and feel more in control. Expensive, but priceless. Good luck!