Surveyor wording is a little harsh

Some years ago I arranged for a SAMS surveyor to meet me at the boat to discuss a pending insurance survey. I saw him coming down the dock with a fat reference document under his arm. What's that I asked. It's the latest ABYC regulations, which I'll be using for the survey, he responded. OK then...you're fired.

What would be the proper way to vet a potential surveyor? If I were to need to get a survey to satisfy insurance requirements, I would definitely want to know about things that need to be changed for safety reasons but wouldn't want someone to write me up for failing to comply with all the current abyc recommendations on my 47-year-old trawler.

CharlieO. said:

What would be the proper way to vet a potential surveyor? If I were to need to get a survey to satisfy insurance requirements, I would definitely want to know about things that need to be changed for safety reasons but wouldn't want someone to write me up for failing to comply with all the current abyc recommendations on my 47-year-old trawler.

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Word of mouth only. I've got a good one in the Seattle area.

TJM said:

My main concern was that a finding was noted that "many repairs - refits - modifications - additions have been made to the AC and DC systems since the vessel was originally commissioned" He did not list any deficiency though.

He "highly recommends I contract with an ABYC certified marine electrician / mechanical surveyor to inspect the vessels electrical / mechanical systems to very installs were to ABYC codes.

WHAT DID I HIRE HIM FOR THEN ?? At no point did he say further inspections would be required or that he could not perform them.

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No offense intended here, we don't know what you're electrical systems look like. I can attest that most DIY marine electrical is just horrible. I've re-wired both helms, plus done extensive electrical upgrades. My survey made note that there was significant electrical work since the initial pre-purchase survey (same surveyor did both), however, he noted also all work was to code. he noted to me that he rarely sees such tidy and proper work.

I'm glad you got a second, more favorable survey.

Yes, I was present and very active in his survey. I truly wanted to know my compliance with ABYC and general safety as I have made alot of upgrades on the boat. In my Aerospace career, I frequently perform audits and when the report is delivered there should NEVER be surprises. Some items are findings and other minor items are just opportunities for improvement. I was shocked when I received his report.

Rufus said:

Some years ago I arranged for a SAMS surveyor to meet me at the boat to discuss a pending insurance survey. I saw him coming down the dock with a fat reference document under his arm. What's that I asked. It's the latest ABYC regulations, which I'll be using for the survey, he responded. OK then...you're fired.

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Hope you paid him for a wasted day.....at least something.

TJM said:

Yes, I was present and very active in his survey. I truly wanted to know my compliance with ABYC and general safety as I have made alot of upgrades on the boat. In my Aerospace career, I frequently perform audits and when the report is delivered there should NEVER be surprises. Some items are findings and other minor items are just opportunities for improvement. I was shocked when I received his report.

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Wow! Truly blindsided. What a coward.

Isn't this survey thing such a scam! It makes my blood boil the way they treat us, their paying customer!

TJM said:

Yes, I was present and very active in his survey. I truly wanted to know my compliance with ABYC and general safety as I have made alot of upgrades on the boat. In my Aerospace career, I frequently perform audits and when the report is delivered there should NEVER be surprises. Some items are findings and other minor items are just opportunities for improvement. I was shocked when I received his report.

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That seems completely senseless. Why would you not want to ensure you're vessel is in compliance with standards?? The only reason I can think of is your boat is full of DIY shortcuts. Otherwise, what were you afraid of?

This 'logic' literally makes ZERO sense. You hired a certified surveyor, then fired him when you found out he was following standards?

Don L said:

Isn't this survey thing such a scam! It makes my blood boil the way they treat us, their paying customer!

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How is it a scam? In what way do they treat you unprofessionally?

@Shrew what about a surveyor marking down that an undamaged vertical fuel fill hose originally installed 50 years ago no longer meets ABYC standards.

Shrew said:

That seems completely senseless. Why would you not want to ensure you're vessel is in compliance with standards?? The only reason I can think of is your boat is full of DIY shortcuts. Otherwise, what were you afraid of?

This 'logic' literally makes ZERO sense. You hired a certified surveyor, then fired him when you found out he was following standards?

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Standards are good, but at the same time, a bit of additional knowledge, discretion, etc. is important. Walking up to an older boat with a book of the latest standards as a strict reference is likely to end in a report that the boat is totally unsuitable for use.

In reality, there should be an assessment against the standards and things noted as either meeting the standard, meeting an older version of the standard, not meeting the standard but still done in a way that's fine for the intended use, or something isn't acceptable. And for things that don't meet the latest standards I'd want to see a breakdown of things where there would be a big benefit to updating, things where it's minor (and maybe should be updated next time you're already doing something with it), an understanding of things that can or can't be reasonably updated, etc.

Some standards should be strictly followed, but plenty of others are more of a best practice, or the industry agreed way to do things on a new boat, but not necessarily the only safe way to do something.

Shrew said:

How is it a scam? In what way do they treat you unprofessionally?

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When you are forced to use them, have no input, get a report with unexpected things, when they wouldn't discuss with the person paying for the report.

When a boat owner arranges an inspection and is paying for it THEY are the customer. If the owner later gets a report with a bunch of stuff that was never mentioned or discussed during the inspection that is bull fecal matter

I've never had a bad surveyor. They are worth their weight in gold as far as I'm concerned. I had three surveyors when I bought my current boat (metal, engine, overall). They saved me 10s of thousands of dollars off the purchase price along with providing me explanations of all needed upgrades. There were no surprises. I just had an updated survey with my original surveyor and he only charged half the price of the original survey-his standard practice since he already has most details from the original survey. A very fair man indeed. Once again, he talked through everything with me and there were no surprises. The OP was spot on with his criticism. I'm glad he posted. My surveyor is getting ready to retire. Thanks to the OP, I will interrogate my next surveyor, i.e we will have an understanding before hiring, that there will be no surprises in the survey and I want to review the report before the final draft.

My last insurance survey, after he was done, we sat down and had a beer for an hour or so. Talked about all kinds of boat stuff including ABYC standards.

Sure there was all kinds of weird stuff, in the report like where my spare inverter was (he thought it was the main one even though no wires hooked to it).

No biggie as nothing was reported as a problem, just a bunch of suggested things like moving a few fire extinguishers.

They aren't perfect by any means, but the top tier guys are not BS.... I personally know many more than I have used and they know quite a bit, more more than what some think. Maybe it's the way one deals with one that helps with the overall experience.