Milton

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Jklotz​

I don't know why anyone would want to ride out a hurricane on the islands in a condo, not for me, but MANY people did that, along with many that stayed on the mainland in higher properties.

I could have stayed with my kid in Largo, but no power, so I'll wait.

I did have neighbors that stayed and reported than my home and boat came thru fine, so my new dock lines paid off.

Jay and 3rd Order, glad you came out ok!
 
I don’t get it? This was left in Marina Jack, Sarasota. Why?

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Interesting slant posted by several. Without decreasing heat trapping gases population levels will fall. Loss of agricultural land, loss of potable water, direct heat related deaths. Loss of housing and infrastructure from fire, storms and flooding so deaths from exposure. Wars as climate related migration increases. We are already seeing political instability due to this now. We cannot eliminate our footprint but we can both decrease it and work to mitigate the ongoing and future impact.

I currently own a trawler. Although I live in a zero footprint house and drive a EV truck I’m in no position to throw stones. The big contributors now are concrete, factory farms, and electricity production. Although Amazon is using Rivian EVs for final delivery current EVs make no sense for folks traveling or towing long distances routinely where infrastructure doesn’t exist or climate doesn’t allow. However nether does the increase in population into obvious at risk regions. Nor not substituting ways to decrease heat trapping gasses with currently available technologies without negative economic impacts.

Perhaps economics and migration to lower risk regions will mitigate impact to some extent. Find it remarkable how well our government at state and federal levels mitigated deaths from Helene and they continue to do markable work for the folks in NC inspite of the gross lies being told.
But with multiple friends having lost their houses and taking terrible financial hits believe it’s time to wake up. Arrange your personal circumstances so you are less at risk. Do what’s reasonable for you to mitigate the risks for your children. Every little bit helps.
 
Many here don't like lectures on pure boating topics... think about doing it on other subjects.
 
Hippocampus said:
Interesting slant posted by several. Without decreasing heat trapping gases population levels will fall. Loss of agricultural land, loss of potable water, direct heat related deaths. Loss of housing and infrastructure from fire, storms and flooding so deaths from exposure. Wars as climate related migration increases. We are already seeing political instability due to this now. We cannot eliminate our footprint but we can both decrease it and work to mitigate the ongoing and future impact.
Click to expand...
As America's carbon footprint diminishes by percentage (<15%), and China / India's footprint increases (>40%), what's your plan to force China to stop building dirty coal fired power plants? It's a pointless exercise until you force them to change.

Ted
 
We talk about moving south but I think Florida is a little too far south, I have enough stuff to worry about without adding hurricanes to the mix.
I am glad this storm didn't come ashore at full power and feel for those affected by these hurricanes.
 
Weather prediction and climate science is already at the cutting edge of tech. Beyond marine accurate predictions have huge impact in transportation especially air and huge impact on industry especially agriculture. AI is not the obstacle rather its computing power. It’s quantum computing that will be the foundation of the next massive improvement.
 
CharlieO. said:
We talk about moving south but I think Florida is a little too far south, I have enough stuff to worry about without adding hurricanes to the mix.
I am glad this storm didn't come ashore at full power and feel for those affected by these hurricanes.
Click to expand...
Came to the same conclusion. Never much liked Fl. except for the area around Destin and Captiva. To many people and the Florida of Travis McGee has disappeared. But in our travels south really did like the Hilton Head area. They have skated the last few years but even the ICW side still shows evidence of damage.
We spent time looking at houses with an eye for vulnerability and operating costs. Did the same for the Beaufort SC area. In both cases initial costs were too high for what you get, insurance a problem and risks high so waved. Back to winter vacations and occasional freezing rain. But boating season has expanded in The NE and as we speak the stripers are still running.
 
We are back at our second floor condo in St Pete Beach. No power but the weather is gorgeous - low 70s and dry. You'd never know Milton came roaring through a bit more than 24 hours ago. We just made a drive around looking for coffee which was almost as rare as gasoline: we found one gas station open and with gas out of perhaps 100 that we drove past, and it was shutting down pumps as we topped off. At least 90% of Pinellas/St Petersburg is dark.

We had already begun planning to move inland a few miles to escape storm risk. Just waiting for the right place to come up for sale. Our timing was almost right. We're fine as we have options and have done a lot of remodel work over the years so this isn't an unknown, but still it will delay our return to Weebles and cruising by several months.

For those who eschew Florida entirely due to storm risk, I understand but in my opinion you're tossing the baby with the bathwater. The postcard parts of Florida with beach scenes are definitely red zones, but there is much more here. We also have a cabin in Colorado that has been close to a couple major fires over the years. We moved to Florida from San Francisco where there is earthquake risk. It turns out the places we enjoy being have some sort of major downside to them. I guess Minnesota or Rochester NY are predictable but cold as hell for much of the year. I find the grey days and early sunsets depressing. Death of a thousand papercuts to my tastes, but some folks like winter. As an added bonus. Florida real estate has contributed mightily to our nest egg (though right now, it has reversed course a bit).

So live a safe life free of winter sunshine with shorts and flip-flops stored for six months knowing you will not have to endure the ravages of mother nature's periodic fury (Pinellas County was last clobbered in 1921, though there's nothing saying it couldn't happen again next week......just as Milton followed Helene). Live a safe life without risk. Die knowing you stayed far from harms way.

Now.....where's my next cup of coffee????

Peter
 

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There are still a few knuckle heads that out there that aren’t helping boat insurance availability in Florida. A big boat in front of Marina Jack, Sarasota.

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Good attitude Peter for you. Think you viewed risk benefits and have the resources to rebound. However many don’t.

The other side of the coin is many areas have become more attractive as climate change proceeds.First year I was in the tropics wife continued to work. She saw 11’ of snow that winter. Now it’s been nearly a decade since the treaded snow blower left the garage. Thinking of selling it. Now I catch black bass, Bonita and other species I never saw in quantity before. I can start fishing in April and stop in November. I haven’t used my ice tip ups in over a decade.

You’re talking to someone who was an iron butt, rode dirt, rock climber and bluewater sailor. Don’t mind risk. But have always prepped to decrease risk. Still recognize risks change. Some risks you can’t mitigate other then avoiding them altogether. I can’t change the current increased risks from climate change. I can’t change with the increased frequency of rapid intensification where I’m going to get a 3 d warning or less of the details of cyclonic storms. For me an unacceptable risk. Different folks-different boats. Respect your decisions.


But remember a prior crew. He signed up for a salty Dawg rally with me. His intention was to sell his business and house and go international sailing. Sandy hit. His business and house in Atlantic City area weren’t sellable. His dream destroyed. He signed on to the SDR a few years after. Thinking that was the only way he’d be able to do passages. Now years later he is still upside down and working. Most people don’t want that to happen to them.

People focus on the acute storm and immediate clean up. The damage persists for years and years. Have had great fun in Florida. If you stay away from the high population density areas there’s beauty. Wife loves horses and we have friends in horse/cattle country. It’s still nice. I like skinny water fishing using a fly and Florida has a lot of it. Much to love. But keeping a boat in the water full time there or owning a house. No thanks. I’ll come and visit.
 
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mvweebles said:
We are back at our second floor condo in St Pete Beach. No power but the weather is gorgeous - low 70s and dry. You'd never know Milton came roaring through a bit more than 24 hours ago. We just made a drive around looking for coffee which was almost as rare as gasoline: we found one gas station open and with gas out of perhaps 100 that we drove past, and it was shutting down pumps as we topped off. At least 90% of Pinellas/St Petersburg is dark.

We had already begun planning to move inland a few miles to escape storm risk. Just waiting for the right place to come up for sale. Our timing was almost right. We're fine as we have options and have done a lot of remodel work over the years so this isn't an unknown, but still it will delay our return to Weebles and cruising by several months.

For those who eschew Florida entirely due to storm risk, I understand but in my opinion you're tossing the baby with the bathwater. The postcard parts of Florida with beach scenes are definitely red zones, but there is much more here. We also have a cabin in Colorado that has been close to a couple major fires over the years. We moved to Florida from San Francisco where there is earthquake risk. It turns out the places we enjoy being have some sort of major downside to them. I guess Minnesota or Rochester NY are predictable but cold as hell for much of the year. I find the grey days and early sunsets depressing. Death of a thousand papercuts to my tastes, but some folks like winter. As an added bonus. Florida real estate has contributed mightily to our nest egg (though right now, it has reversed course a bit).

So live a safe life free of winter sunshine with shorts and flip-flops stored for six months knowing you will not have to endure the ravages of mother nature's periodic fury (Pinellas County was last clobbered in 1921, though there's nothing saying it couldn't happen again next week......just as Milton followed Helene). Live a safe life without risk. Die knowing you stayed far from harms way.

Now.....where's my next cup of coffee????

Peter
Click to expand...
Agree.... would much rather risk the occasional hurricane in Florida (don't HAVE to live less than15 feet above sea level).

Much more likely to die on the road when living in the I95 corridor between Washington and Boston.

I loved summering in my boat in South Jersey (except Dec-Mar when there all year) but one has to drive through the infestation to get there and back out. Almost makes me stop visiting my one son there via RV trip....but 2 days of driving misery is worth it each trip. Sure.... those driving headaches exist in lots of places...just not sure as large an area as that.

Lots of Florida is rural and pretty safe from hurricanes... just not the places most people want to be.... the coasts/water access. Even those coastal have had pretty good warnings (way more than 3 days) lately to get to safety... but if your house, boat, RV or business are still in an inundation area... that's no different than many other areas of the US and different disasters.
 
O C Diver said:
As America's carbon footprint diminishes by percentage (<15%), and China / India's footprint increases (>40%), what's your plan to force China to stop building dirty coal fired power plants? It's a pointless exercise until you force them to change.

Ted
Click to expand...
I had to look it up. According to researchers, China has the largest carbon footprint, contributing 33.88% of the world's carbon pollution, followed by the USA at 12%. Surprisingly, India only contributes 4.3%.
 
Seems my boat flood and house insurance says your wrong about risk. I was brought up in manhattan and schooled/worked in the Boston area. No questions in my mind between the Q tips and heavy foots in Miami to Jacksonville driving is way more dangerous in Florida than the northeast.
The intensification of Milton was less than 3 days before landfall. Close friends were borne in Florida and live there. They were going to stick around with their upside down house and 135m windows. They scrambled to get out 2 days before. Fortunately one of their mothers moved to Texas so they went there.
 
Jklotz said:
I had to look it up. According to researchers, China has the largest carbon footprint, contributing 33.88% of the world's carbon pollution, followed by the USA at 12%. Surprisingly, India only contributes 4.3%.
Click to expand...
As Disraeli said “lies, lies and statistics “. Think you need to look at statistics in context.
An American is responsible for 17.6 t of carbon / year. A Chinese for 10.6 t. /year
Given we’ve been doing it longer we are responsible for 509 billion tons since 1850. China 284
www.nytimes.com

U.S. and China on Climate: How the World’s Two Largest Polluters Stack Up (Published 2023)

From gas emissions to electric vehicles, here is how the world’s two biggest economies — and polluters — compare on taking steps to confront climate change.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
 
This is easy... prove your statistical points beyond their gross generalization (refer yourself to the "lie, lies,and statistics" point you made above), and just realize that you and I will disagree on just about everything. The intensification and diminishing for Milton was predicted way before 3 days and the rapid intensification for Helene was almost a week before...I know I was living in the cone for Milton and in the cone RVing for Helene...were you? Yes I was studying them for over a week prior to landfall and studying the deeper data, not listening to the sensational 24 hour weather types.

I don't go by statistics...being an operator all my life (sea land and air...though not a SEAL) I just know what I experience when ACTUALLY DRIVING PLACES. Plus I did say parts of Florida (like the Tampa/Miami area) can mimic the hell of NE travel... Jax I definitely disagree) but most of Florida is rural, not like many parts of the NE. Yes the corridor from Miami to WPB and Tampa to Orlando... but that's NOT the rest of Florida.

Don't wish to live in Florida?... heck I don't blame anyone... in fact I hope many (like 10 million) leave ASAP and the migration here stops. Remember, I may be here, but I don't own anything that can't be driven or towed out of state in hours. Maybe that's my comfy blanket.
 
Responding to several of the posts above, or just posts in general:

If members wish to have their posts make more sense, it would behoove you to mention what specific post they are responding to! Otherwise, saying things like "You're mistaken", or "I totally agree" for instance leaves the readers trying to figure out what the heck he/she is talking about! :whistling:
Please either use the "quote" function, or specify "member name" stated, or even post number please?!?(y)
 
Don L said:
It wasn't, but I thought [Milton] was going to be a LOT worst.
Click to expand...

We did too. Yesterday morning at 9am we received a text from our county emergency response system that roads were open as were the barrier islands. I thought it would be days before we'd get access due to high winds and Helene debris. We left ASAP and arrived in the area around 1pm to sunny skies and dry roads. I was stunned.

But having driven through where hurricanes Michael and Ike went through, I was expecting much worse.

Peter
 
Hippocampus said:
As Disraeli said “lies, lies and statistics “. Think you need to look at statistics in context.
An American is responsible for 17.6 t of carbon / year. A Chinese for 10.6 t. /year
Given we’ve been doing it longer we are responsible for 509 billion tons since 1850. China 284
www.nytimes.com

U.S. and China on Climate: How the World’s Two Largest Polluters Stack Up (Published 2023)

From gas emissions to electric vehicles, here is how the world’s two biggest economies — and polluters — compare on taking steps to confront climate change.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
Click to expand...
download (1).jpeg

sigmaearth.com

Global Carbon Emissions: Country-by-Country for 2023 - Sigma Earth

In 2023, the tale of global carbon emissions is a mosaic of national pledges, industrial legacies, and emerging challenges, with global carbon emissions acting as a crucial barometer.
sigmaearth.com sigmaearth.com

Cumulative totals over a century are meaningless. China and India are building coal fired power plants as fast as they can and the USA is closing them.

1728656057742.png


www.carbonbrief.org

Guest post: Just 15 countries account for 98% of new coal-power development - Carbon Brief

This article details some of the most significant trends driving the continued development of coal across the 15 largest markets
www.carbonbrief.org www.carbonbrief.org

If your not going to stop China and India from building them, what we do in the USA will become irrelevant.

Ted
 
Guys, this thread is getting difficult for me as a member, because some here are pushing their politically based theories on climate change.

Please no political! I want to come here in peace and read about boating, and yes storms, but stretching this into climate change crosses a line.
 
O C Diver said:
If your not going to stop China and India from building them, what we do in the USA will become irrelevant.

Ted
Click to expand...

I find "what-about-ism" type arguments an excuse to do as little as you must as opposed to as much as you can. There are many sound reasons to spur development and innovation. It's what world leaders do.

Peter
 
ksanders said:
Guys, this thread is getting difficult for me as a member, because some here are pushing their politically based theories on climate change.

Please no political! I want to come here in peace and read about boating, and yes storms, but stretching this into climate change crosses a line.
Click to expand...
I agree with Kevin on this one, it is hard for me to not comment on the current politics of climate change, I know this is not appropriate venue.
 
mvweebles said:
I find "what-about-ism" type arguments an excuse to do as little as you must as opposed to as much as you can.

Peter
Click to expand...
So what you're saying is that you're planning on putting Weebles in the landfill along with any other internal combustion engine transportation you own, disconnect from the power grid, only use solar powered energy, and ride a bicycle everywhere you go?

Obviously everyone should strive to reduce our impact, but we live in a cumulative world where every country has to change direction or it won't matter.

Ted
 
O C Diver said:
Obviously everyone should strive to reduce our impact, but we live in a cumulative world where every country has to change direction or it won't matter.

Ted
Click to expand...

Absurdism isn't much better than what-about-ism.

But yes. The entire world has skin in the game. It's why efforts like Paris Accords were important.

Peter
 
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ksanders said:
Guys, this thread is getting difficult for me as a member, because some here are pushing their politically based theories on climate change.

Please no political! I want to come here in peace and read about boating, and yes storms, but stretching this into climate change crosses a line.
Click to expand...

Please? As he said or the thread will be closed. We are a boating forum. :flowers:
 
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mvweebles said:
We are back at our second floor condo in St Pete Beach. No power but the weather is gorgeous - low 70s and dry. You'd never know Milton came roaring through a bit more than 24 hours ago. We just made a drive around looking for coffee which was almost as rare as gasoline: we found one gas station open and with gas out of perhaps 100 that we drove past, and it was shutting down pumps as we topped off. At least 90% of Pinellas/St Petersburg is dark.

Now.....where's my next cup of coffee????

Peter
Click to expand...
Used to be easy to find a coffee shop with no internet. Now it seems the other way around!
 
Larry M said:
There are still a few knuckle heads that out there that aren’t helping boat insurance availability in Florida. A big boat in front of Marina Jack, Sarasota.
Click to expand...
While not as bad as hurricane Ian, a fair number of destroyed boats and flooded cars all over the state. I fail to understand why insurance companies haven't required owners to move their vehicles during mandatory evacuation for storm surge. In SWFL, mandatory evacuation for zone A and B was 2.5 days before landfall. Yet we see people on the local news leaving their cars behind. :nonono:

Ted
 
I swear on one news clip I saw a guy pushing a car into a flooded roadway.

:facepalm:
 
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