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HopCar

HopCar

Guru
Joined
Aug 20, 2011
Messages
5,366
Vessel Name
Possum
Vessel Make
Ellis 28
My friend kept a 25 ft Aquasport on a lift in Punta Gorda Florida. After the hurricane passed the boat was upside down in the canal. Today two guys from Tow Boat US showed up to salvage it. They had no heavy equipment just a few come-alongs and a pump. They got it up, pumped out and tied to the dock in about two hours. The charge was $6240.
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IMG_9161.jpeg
IMG_9212.jpeg
 
Did he ask them to salvage it?
 
Yes he asked them to refloat it. He was in Italy when the storm hit so I made some calls for him. They did him a favor doing it so quickly. The canals are full of swamped boats. His insurance will pay $6000.
 
this is scam. my friend ground 46 ft sailboat on rock. team people diver and heavy lift,tow to dry marina he pay 4000€
I think havy lift is 1000€ per hour
 
Salvage rules are way different from towing. The costs go up exponentially.
 
Comodave said:
Salvage rules are way different from towing. The costs go up exponentially.
Click to expand...
what rules, also in my video is salvage first step havy lift 3 hour job,diver 2 hour job,tow 30 minute ,dry dock lift, dry dock 1 week,repair ruder,repair hull ,antifouling paint ,epoxy paint price for all 4000€
 
HopCar said:
Yes he asked them to refloat it. He was in Italy when the storm hit so I made some calls for him. They did him a favor doing it so quickly. The canals are full of swamped boats. His insurance will pay $6000.
Click to expand...
Wrong all people who have insurance for season 2025-2026 pay this.insurancy company simply rise price for next year.Also we in Croatia/London pay this. London rise in re-insurance and insurance companies rise price.
 
But remember that here we are talking about US salvage rules. We are very litigious here. If someone disagrees with a salvage bill they can sue. But with only about $6K the insurance company will likely just pay. It would cost more than that to sue.

In order to claim a salvage reward, the salvor must meet three requirements. There must be (1) a marine peril; (2) service voluntarily rendered; and (3) success in saving persons or property. If these three requirements are met, the salvor may present the owner of the salvaged property with a claim for his reward.
 
I'm reminded of the old story of a woman with a broken TV. She calls a repairman who comes out and in 3-mins has it working again. He hands her a bill for $50.00.

"Fifty dollars is outrageous!!!" She exclaims. "I want this bill itemized!"

The repairman takes the bill and scribbles

"Screw (1) - $0.05
Knowing which screw: $49.95"

Peter
 
Yup. And add that not acting in a timely matter and causing eco damage via fuel spill can result in a bigger fine than the salvage bill.
 
more said:
Wrong all people who have insurance for season 2025-2026 pay this.insurancy company simply rise price for next year.Also we in Croatia/London pay this. London rise in re-insurance and insurance companies rise price.
Click to expand...
Minimum labor rate in the US is now close to $15/hr... and in some countries.... $1 or less. Does that give a slight clue?

If you are not in the salvage business fore decades I take your analysis with a grain of salt.

I was doing salvage from 2003-2016.

I raised many a boat (probably between 100-200) as 10 per year was common and on some days I helped raise 4-5/day after storms. A few resulted in minor environmental cleanup due toa lot of engine oil leaking out, but the vast majority had no cleanup necessary. The boats that did were the larger, offshore vessels that had a lot of oil/fuel in engines/tanks and extra stored on board

Occasionally I raised a few on my own with just the tow boat, come-a-long and trash pump. Rarely was the charge under $3000 even back 20 years ago in New Jersey, USA.

I used to cringe at the prices when the salvages went quick and smooth. I never cringed when they took all day and were dangerous as heck.

But salvage is like any business... you charge what you charge and win some and lose some.... so overall you hope you make a nice profit. But nice profit is not necessarily getting rich quick.

My boss explained to me he developed a flat rate per foot that usually kept the cost well within what it would cost if you detailed the invoice time/materials and labor. It was very popular with insurance companies as they almost never balked. In fact some would use us instead of their partner towing company because our prices were more competitive and the salvages almost all went well.

A lot of boaters have a bad opinion of people who tow and do salvage. I can't say I thought highly of them either as a Coastie or a boater till I did it for many years. My bosses were trustworthy, honest men whom I respected a lot. There were a few assistance towing companies I didn't think so highly of, but it wasn't because of their pricing as it wasn't a whole lot different than most.

Before discussing towing salvage, I suggest walking a mile in their shoes and learn something about it beyond internet banter.
 
And remember that most times it is no cure no pay. In other words if they aren’t able to successfully salvage the boat they don’t get paid.
 
mvweebles said:
I'm reminded of the old story of a woman with a broken TV. She calls a repairman who comes out and in 3-mins has it working again. He hands her a bill for $50.00.

"Fifty dollars is outrageous!!!" She exclaims. "I want this bill itemized!"

The repairman takes the bill and scribbles

"Screw (1) - $0.05
Knowing which screw: $49.95"

Peter
Click to expand...
Good one.
 
psneeld said:
Before discussing towing salvage, I suggest walking a mile in their shoes and learn something about it beyond internet banter.
Click to expand...

Good post. Only point I'd add is salvage is a highly uneven and episodic business. Most people (US) work 40-hour work weeks, 2000 hours per year. Some jobs have really lumpy hours so they have to make up for idle time to be available when needed - salvage is high on that list.

Think of it this way. Let's say the average income is $80k/yr in the US......around $40/hour. Further, let's say the average firefighter spends 100 hours per year actually fighting fires. Should they only be paid $4000/year? Is it a scam to pay them $80k/year?

Peter
 
The USA is in top 10 country with salary I know, but
-no heavy equipment
-just a few come-along and a Chinese 100$ pump.
-pumped out and tied to the dock in about two hours.
-The charge was $6240.

PS
why Americans and other tourists complain when taxi driver
sometime charge town airport 50-70€ but some taxi charge over 1000€
all legally in Croatia because every taxi makes his price list.
we call this taxi charge 1000€ scam, also bar who sells glass champaign 5-10000€ on some case 100000 € I read in a newspaper
 
Last edited:
more said:
The USA is in top 10 country with salary I know, but
-no heavy equipment
-just a few come-along and a Chinese 100$ pump.
-pumped out and tied to the dock in about two hours.
-The charge was $6240.

PS
why Americans and other tourists complain when taxi driver
sometime charge town airport 50-70€ but some taxi charge over 1000€
all legally in Croatia because every taxi makes his price list.
we call this taxi charge 1000€ scam, also bar who sells glass champaign 5-10000€ on some case 100000 € I read in a newspaper
Click to expand...
Your arguement is thin air. Understand the business, understand the pricing.

If competitors charge nearly the same, courts call the awards mostly fair, insurance companies pay without arguement and even people who pay out of pocket think the charges are OK..... pretty hartd to agree with you.

The occasional whiner on the internet doesn't compare to the hundreds or thousands of salvages around the US every day or week that seem to move on without exaggerating the unfairness of salvage.

Calling it a scam is an insult to a lot of good people. Wish to reveal your occupation so I can pick it apart like you have never heard?
 
A request to refloat a boat, whether it's on the bottom or the beach.....is a Salvage. Most professionals I see surround the boat with oil booms and attempt to contain filled spilling from the vent lines.
 
mvweebles said:
Think of it this way. Let's say the average income is $80k/yr in the US......around $40/hour. Further, let's say the average firefighter spends 100 hours per year actually fighting fires. Should they only be paid $4000/year? Is it a scam to pay them $80k/year?

Peter
Click to expand...
The firefighter analogy is spot on. Tow Boat U.S. and their industry peers invest in equipment and locations at which to store, maintain and stage it. They also recruit, train and sustain operators with the skills to handle an infinite range of situations and casualties, and position everything so that a crew can deploy rapidly, evaluate and execute the task without injury or further damage. Having the resources available to do that whenever and wherever you need them is worth something.

Similarly, some boaters whine and sneer about the Coast Guard being officious and overbearing, or cruising around expending little visible effort. But when it's the boater's a$$ that is in a crack, they sing a different hymn.
 
In California, I had a small 13ft boat flip and sink at the dock while I was in Hawaii. Sea Tow said they did not do recovery of sunk boats. They would tow it once it was up but not touch a sunk boat. Same with Safeco Ins. They cover theft, damage, but not sinking. Check your policies.
 
Cold Duck said:
In California, I had a small 13ft boat flip and sink at the dock while I was in Hawaii. Sea Tow said they did not do recovery of sunk boats. They would tow it once it was up but not touch a sunk boat. Same with Safeco Ins. They cover theft, damage, but not sinking. Check your policies.
Click to expand...
That may be that franchise, but the one in South Jersey is legendary for salvage and some others on the East Coast I know do it all the time. Salvage of sunk boats is not covered in the regular Sea Tow membership...but many do it because they have the equipment and expertise to raise a sunken boat.

Right from the Sea Tow web page...

Services​

Besides the host of “typical” on-water assistance services Sea Tow provides, Sea Tow Franchisees offer a host of other services for your vessel recovery needs. Whether your vessel has blown off its mooring, sank at the dock or ran aground high and dry we can help.
Sea Tow Franchisees maintain special equipment that enables them to efficiently recover your vessel while preventing any further damage, therefore preserving the value of your vessel and hopefully limiting the repairs which will get you back on the water quicker.
A Sea Tow Franchisee’s typical Salvage and Recovery “toolbox” will include a variety of gas and electric pumps, enclosed flotation pillows (airbags), air compressors, divers and diver gear, rigging straps and other miscellaneous rigging equipment, trucks, trailers, patching material and pneumatic tools for use underwater. To protect the environment we employ oil absorbent materials and oil containment boom. Sea Tow operators also maintain relationships with subcontractors for most any other equipment that may be needed, not to mention local marinas that can provide vessel haul-outs and repairs.
The foregoing is offered for general information purposes only, and may not be construed as a legal opinion.

Why do posters think that their very limited experience covers so many different aspects of boating?

Before believing anything on forums, double check whether it is totally true and if you need specific info...do research that pertains to your situation and location.

Here is a typical salvage where Northstar (my previous assistance tower employer) would work by itself, or with the local Sea Tow or BoatUS franchise.
352707198_971558040546434_4311832076551838069_n.jpg
 
Last edited:
more said:
we call this taxi charge 1000€ scam, also bar who sells glass champaign 5-10000€ on some case 100000 € I read in a newspaper
Click to expand...
Could you please share with the rest of us the article about the €100,000 glass of champagne? Or even the name of a bar that is selling champagne for €10,000 per glass?
 
more said:
what rules, also in my video is salvage first step havy lift 3 hour job,diver 2 hour job,tow 30 minute ,dry dock lift, dry dock 1 week,repair ruder,repair hull ,antifouling paint ,epoxy paint price for all 4000€
Click to expand...
I think you have some math issues or credibility issues or both. In your video post (post #5) you end with “heavy lift is €1000 per hour”. So you are saying here that:
2 hours of diver
PLUS
30 minute tow
PLUS
dry dock lift
PLUS
one week on the hard
PLUS
rudder repair
PLUS
hull repair
PLUS
antifouling paint
PLUS
epoxy paint

All this for €1000?

I find that less than believable.
 
NoRain said:
I think you have some math issues or credibility issues or both. In your video post (post #5) you end with “heavy lift is €1000 per hour”. So you are saying here that:
2 hours of diver
PLUS
30 minute tow
PLUS
dry dock lift
PLUS
one week on the hard
PLUS
rudder repair
PLUS
hull repair
PLUS
antifouling paint
PLUS
epoxy paint

All this for €1000?

I find that less than believable.
Click to expand...
4000€
 
NoRain said:
Could you please share with the rest of us the article about the €100,000 glass of champagne? Or even the name of a bar that is selling champagne for €10,000 per glass?
Click to expand...
riportal-net-hr.translate.goog

Milijarderi u Dubrovniku popili 368 tisuća kuna pa odbili platiti. Pogledajte račun! | Riportal

Račun je podmiren nakon što su iz kluba pozvali policiju Račun od gotovo 400 tisuća kuna u Dubrovniku, koji je šokirao navodno i bogatog Arapa, sina
riportal-net-hr.translate.goog riportal-net-hr.translate.goog
night club cleopatra,go go, but is ussles this criminal night bar change owner evry year.

The Portuguese is the new victim of the "Princess" club staff: They beat him and "skinned" him for HRK 25,000 3300€​


The season has started in Split: the Americans treated the dancers in the Kleopatra club and forcibly charged them 2000€
 
There is no €100,000 glass of champagne in your reply. The bill you linked to shows a *bottle* of Roederer for approximately €1327 (10,000 kuna). Expensive but not insane. It also shows what appears to be a Methuselah of Armand de Brignac for 120,000 kuna (€16,000). That is a 6 litre bottle, which then equates to €2000 per 750ml. That is undoubtedly premium priced because of the rarity of Methuselah sized bottles of champagne, as is evidenced by the same champagne charged at €800 per 750ml when purchased as a Magnum lower on the bill, or by the actual 750ml bottle one line lower on the bill.

No €100,000 glass of champagne.

This is now ridiculously off topic, my apologies for my contribution to that situation…..I’m outta here.
 
more said:
4000€
Click to expand...
No, in post #7 you said €4000 total, which includes €3000 for the heavy lift, which leaves €1000 for all the rest.

I’m outta here too. 🙄
 
psneeld said:
That may be that franchise, but the one in South Jersey is legendary for salvage and some others on the East Coast I know do it all the time. Salvage of sunk boats is not covered in the regular Sea Tow membership...but many do it because they have the equipment and expertise to raise a sunken boat.

Right from the Sea Tow web page...

Services​

Besides the host of “typical” on-water assistance services Sea Tow provides, Sea Tow Franchisees offer a host of other services for your vessel recovery needs. Whether your vessel has blown off its mooring, sank at the dock or ran aground high and dry we can help.
Sea Tow Franchisees maintain special equipment that enables them to efficiently recover your vessel while preventing any further damage, therefore preserving the value of your vessel and hopefully limiting the repairs which will get you back on the water quicker.
A Sea Tow Franchisee’s typical Salvage and Recovery “toolbox” will include a variety of gas and electric pumps, enclosed flotation pillows (airbags), air compressors, divers and diver gear, rigging straps and other miscellaneous rigging equipment, trucks, trailers, patching material and pneumatic tools for use underwater. To protect the environment we employ oil absorbent materials and oil containment boom. Sea Tow operators also maintain relationships with subcontractors for most any other equipment that may be needed, not to mention local marinas that can provide vessel haul-outs and repairs.
The foregoing is offered for general information purposes only, and may not be construed as a legal opinion.

Why do posters think that their very limited experience covers so many different aspects of boating?

Before believing anything on forums, double check whether it is totally true and if you need specific info...do research that pertains to your situation and location.

Here is a typical salvage where Northstar (my previous assistance tower employer) would work by itself, or with the local Sea Tow or BoatUS franchise.
View attachment 159118
Click to expand...
This may be true but my experience was calling Sea Tow number in Florida, not a local shop. I was told out right they would not engage in recovery of a sunk boat. All I can say is this was my experience about 4-5 years ago. Maybe I should have asked to talk to someone higher up the food chain, but it wasn't a big deal, my neighbor had it recovered and put up on a dock after 2 days ( I was in Hawaii at the time). But the call to Sea Tow was they would not refloat the boat. I have had about 3-4 experiences with Sea Tow and they were all handled efficiently but only involved failed engines/outdrives and a tow to our home dock. But I stand by my experience that the Florida office number was answered and as soon as I said I have a small boat sunk at the dock they said they did not raise sunk boats.
 
Cold Duck said:
This may be true but my experience was calling Sea Tow number in Florida, not a local shop. I was told out right they would not engage in recovery of a sunk boat. All I can say is this was my experience about 4-5 years ago. Maybe I should have asked to talk to someone higher up the food chain, but it wasn't a big deal, my neighbor had it recovered and put up on a dock after 2 days ( I was in Hawaii at the time). But the call to Sea Tow was they would not refloat the boat. I have had about 3-4 experiences with Sea Tow and they were all handled efficiently but only involved failed engines/outdrives and a tow to our home dock. But I stand by my experience that the Florida office number was answered and as soon as I said I have a small boat sunk at the dock they said they did not raise sunk boats.
Click to expand...
Exactly...one tiny experience and your original post infers that Sea Tow doesn't raise sunk boats which is about as far as the truth as it gets. That is pretty much a whole slew of posts in TF that I have been fighting since I have been a member. Just trying to keep people informed enough to the rest of the boating world.

Sorta confused..... are you saying a Sea Tow in California AND Florida don't raise sunk boats? If so I would love to know who you called so I could follow up on it. Neither sounds right but it could have been unusual circumstances and I have no reason to doubt you.

PS.... there is no Florida Sea Tow number. You are either calling a franchise in FL or the home office which is headquartered in Southold, NY. Franchises have to provide basic membership services. Whether they will raise a sunken boat or not may be out of their business plan or they just couldn't do it when asked.
 
psneeld said:

Services​



Why do posters think that their very limited experience covers so many different aspects of boating?


I find this a little insulting and small minded. You have no idea what amount of experience I or any reporting member has. I never said this was the absolute policy of Sea Tow or Safeco. If the Forum isn't a place to share experiences, then what is it? True, everyone should take any and all information from the Forum and use it as background to find out what might affect their particular operation. A lot of information here causes one to ask questions they wouldn't otherwise ask when entering a contract, a serivce, travel, or a modification to their vessel, etc.
Just a little FYI, I have been boating for 66 years, built a number of large vessels, have thousands of miles of blue water sailing as Capt, owned and operated vessels from 13' to 70', sail and power. I have a lot of experience in many different types of vessels and boating conditions. But when presenting an experience on the Forum, it is just that, an experience. If you have sailed you know that any experience in a port is limited to the specific time and people you come in contact with. The next visit can be totally different. You just use the info you have to be wary. This was one experience 4-5 years ago and should cause one to think about the fact that when you make a phone call you might be surprised by the answer given if you have not checked ahead of time. Nothing more or less was implied.
Click to expand...
 
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