130 HP Perkins ?

[otis maximus]

I'm looking at a 1975 35' Eagle trawler, it has a 130 hp 6 cylinder perkins diesel with about 400 hrs on a rebuild that was done 12 years ago. I'm not that familiar with the perkins diesel. Is there anyone out there that can tell me something about reliability, longevity, parts etc.. Sounded good while running, smoked on start up and the owner says it smokes a little after warm up, also burns about a quart of oil every 12 hrs. is that normal? Any information would be appreciated. Thanks

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. om. Perkins and Lehman diesels were possibly the most common engines installed in Taiwanese trawler type vessels in the 70's. Maintenance is the key for these and ANY engine. One quart per 12 hrs does seem excessive. There could several reasons for such usage.


If your seriously interested in this vessel an engine survey should tell you the condition and possibly the causes for oil consumption.

 

[rochepoint]

What is the model number of the Perkins, never heard of a 130hp model. Ours is a 1985 Perkins 3.6544M it is 135hp, most are 3.6544 at 120hp. Ours smokes a little on start up but stops pretty quick when you put it in gear. Uses very little oil and has 2700 hours, rumour is it will outlive me........

 

[FlyWright]

3500 hrs on twin 4.236's. They use a qt per 30 hrs or so. A recent oil cooler failure caused a creep in oil loss. When it got to 2 hrs per qt, I finally figured it out.

I love my Perkins. They leak oil but I consider that Perkins patina.

They say that if your Perkins is not leaking oil, it's low on oil. I removed a bolt securing my stop solenoid and found that oil was leaking out of the case! Oil leakage is part and parcel with Perkins ownership.

 

[Rossland]

Perkins is Massey-Ferguson tractor, which is where you can find parts. These are excellent engines, but obsolete now. One thing to keep in mind is that nearly all 6-354 Perkins leak oil around the rear seal. It is a big job replacing it. I think I read someplace that a better seal was available. Perhaps someone else could give more info.

Because of the smoke and high oil consumption, be sure you have a mechanic examine the engine as part of the survey. I once owned one of these engines in a farm tractor, and after 5000 hours, much of it at 2200RPM and full throttle, it burned less than half the oil your engine does.

 

[Donsan]

Very normal if overfilled by a quart to start with.

 

[FlyWright]

Very normal if overfilled by a quart to start with.

Good point!

 

[otis maximus]

Thanks everyone, I wonder if the oil consumption could still be part of the break in process with only 400 hours on it? And as far as being over full, how many quarts should that motor hold?

 

[Donsan]

If it is from the 6.354 family, total capacity is normally 13 quarts. There is a shop manual in the TF Library.


Owners tend to overfill their oil due to erroneous dipstick markings and shortcomings in using a hand or automated oil change pumps. Stock dipsticks are based on an engine being level. Many if not most marine inboards are mounted at an angle resulting in the stock dipstick showing less oil than is actually there. The pumps even when the oil is hot, miss 5-10% of the oil on an oil change so if you dump another 13 quarts in, you could be a quart over.



Obviously, I am skeptical that oil is being burned at 400 hours but some rebuilds are not done well. Best bet is to get a diesel engine survey if you are serious about the boat.

 

[Tom.B]

I love my Perkins. They leak oil but I consider that Perkins patina.

Like the old Harleys, this was my mantra of our old 6.354: “If you ain’t leakin’ oil... you’re outta oil!”

They are very good motors! Especially the normally aspirated ones. Parts are pretty easy to find and, by comparison to my Volvos, VERY inexpensive. You can’t go wrong with an old blue in your belly.

HOWEVER! a quart ever 12 hours seems like a lot. You better ask a good diesel mechanic about that... you know... just in case.

 

[High Wire]

As good as the 6.354 family is, 1 quart of oil per 12 hours is excessive. In a 250 hour cruise year you will have gone through 2 oil change worth of oil.
You are way past break-in.
If you are leaking that much. much wasted money on oil and oil sorbent sheets.
If not leaking and actually burning it, then the rebuild or break-in went bad.
6.354's have replacable liners. Kind of hard to go wrong.
Get an oil sample. Its limited value but can give you a clue of what is wrong.

 

[Steve91T]

Has anyone checked blow by? That’ll tell you a lot right there. What oil is he using? Maybe simply stepping up to a heavier weight oil will help.

 

[otis maximus]

Again thanks for the reply's and comments. I agree having a reputable mechanic look at it is a good idea along with an oil sample. Two other things about the engine.

The owner said the mechanic that rebuilt the engine told him to use only a non-detergent oil, I think he said "Dello 100" didn't specify the grade but said it was getting harder to find?

Also, I was looking at a Thompson trawler on Yachtworld with a 6 cylinder Perkins diesel (doesn't specify model) that had sold, but the sell went through because of a faulty engine manifold. I asked the sales person what model the engine was thinking I could check around for price and availability. He just said they checked every where and couldn't find one so they were having one made (?) I'm not sure which manifold, the sales person was a fast talker.

The owner of the Eagle trawler stated that the exhaust manifold gaskets were starting to leak and needed to be replaced, no big deal, but now I'm thinking "do Perkins have issues with exhaust manifolds?"

On a side note the engine and engine room area looked fairly clean. I didn't see oil seepage or absorbent pads, the bilges were reasonably clean and dry. (and I will check blow-by)

Again thanks for your comments.
Eric
PS. Anyone recommend a good, "reputable" Perkins mechanic in the PNW (Olympia to Everett)

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. om. Again, I profess my non familiarity with Perkins engines BUT non detergent oils are recommended for Lehman's. I use 40 weight in Florida.

 

[DavidM]

Yes, a quart every 12 hours is excessive. Also 400 hours over a 12 year period isn't a lot.

I would first either fill by one quart less and see how it goes or let the oil drop after the first quart and see how it burns the second one. If it is still burning oil, then:

Look for leaks not oil burning. The rear oil seal is a likely cause.

Is the exhaust blue? At a quart every 12 hours it should be. Also hold your hand over oil filler port- does it puff under load? Puffing and blue smoke are pretty good indicators of unseated or stuck rings.

If everything else looks good: oil pressure, etc then try running her hard for about 5 hours. By hard I mean 2,200+ rpm to put some load and seat the rings. At the same time use an oil additive (some will chime in with their favorites) to try to help break a stuck ring loose.

Good luck!

David

 

[High Wire]

stated that the exhaust manifold gaskets were starting to leak
Leak what? Carbon monoxide? Water?
Factor in a rebuild into the offer price.

 

[Pier Pressure]

I have a 6.3544 in an industrial application, 21000hrs before the oil pump quit. Pacific Diesel sells a rebuild for about 9k. Mine never burned oil but they do smoke on start up as some of the engines did not have glow plugs but over fueled to start.

 

[Pack Mule]

3500 hrs on twin 4.236's. They use a qt per 30 hrs or so. A recent oil cooler failure caused a creep in oil loss. When it got to 2 hrs per qt, I finally figured it out.

I love my Perkins. They leak oil but I consider that Perkins patina.

They say that if your Perkins is not leaking oil, it's low on oil. I removed a bolt securing my stop solenoid and found that oil was leaking out of the case! Oil leakage is part and parcel with Perkins ownership.

Yup my single 6.354 na leaks and smokes at start up. I run mine about about a quart low on the dipstick and helps with the leaks.

 

[BrianSmith]

3500 hrs on twin 4.236's. They use a qt per 30 hrs or so. A recent oil cooler failure caused a creep in oil loss. When it got to 2 hrs per qt, I finally figured it out.

I love my Perkins. They leak oil but I consider that Perkins patina.

They say that if your Perkins is not leaking oil, it's low on oil. I removed a bolt securing my stop solenoid and found that oil was leaking out of the case! Oil leakage is part and parcel with Perkins ownership.

We had a pair of 6.354's in our 1974 Gulfstar trawler, and they had about 6,000 hours on them. Neither of them went through oil at all - never added oil between 100-hour changes - as long as we ran them about 1,700 rpm (which was our comfortable cruise speed). But if we ran them hard (trying to make up time on a 12 hour run one day) - 2,200 rpm - one of them went through 2 quarts in about 5 hours! Solution: we never ran them above 1700 again.

 

[Gypsyjon]

6-354 Perkins

I had a 354 Perkins in a little steel tug. I took it out of Massey Harris tractor up in Canada.

No telling how many hours it had on it. I put a water cooled manifold on it and turned it into a marine engine!

After a few years I had it rebuilt just because. They turned the crank 10 degrees and that was pretty much it.

I saw it sitting on the floor at the Perkins place, idling at 300 rpms!!

It was a GREAT chuck of cast iron. Problem free, easy on fuel. as long as I kept it at 1,800 or below. Like the guy above, it would use some oil if pushed above 2,000, so I never ran it over 1,800.

Loved that engine!!

You will not find better and it was rated at 130 hp. Easy to get part for even today.

Just subscribe to Boats and Harbors and you will find anything you need.

One more thing, I ran nothing but 40 W Shell Rotella oil in it.

 

[Brooksie]

I have a Perkins in my lobsterboat 1972. Perkins is a great engine block but the marinizing parts can get very pricey and hard to find. If the engine in the boat you are looking at has separate intake and exhaust manifolds (exhaust iron and the intake aluminum) you have the original style and parts are inexpensive & available for the most part.
The later engines with combined heat exchangers or combined manifold & heat exchangers have expensive and in some cases unavailable parts and I would want a big discount on the price of the boat.

 

[Tiffany]

Perkins 6-354 oil consumption

As the previous post note, these engines saw service around the world in a wide range of applications. Most every diesel will smoke on cold startup. Clean injectors, with the correct 'crack off' pressure is important. Any good quality 'diesel' formulation oil (Shell Rotella 15-40) is fine but ensure it is diesel formula, not gasoline engine oil.
My own Perkins smoked until I ran it hard with clean injectors and used SeaFoam added to the engine to help clean and strip carbon off the rings. After an oil change the oil stayed much cleaner longer.

 

[Rick Hudson]

Agree with Mike. Oil use sounds excessive. I might add a pint every 100-200 hours (a season). Parts are OK to find, and my 6.3544M has never given me a problem (10 years and counting) apart from upstream fuel issues, which are not the engine's fault. Get an oil analysis as a first step (cheap), and if that checks out all right, then a mech survey (less so).

 

[Gypsyjon]

Parts are not hard to find

I have a Perkins in my lobsterboat 1972. Perkins is a great engine block but the marinizing parts can get very pricey and hard to find. If the engine in the boat you are looking at has separate intake and exhaust manifolds (exhaust iron and the intake aluminum) you have the original style and parts are inexpensive & available for the most part.
The later engines with combined heat exchangers or combined manifold & heat exchangers have expensive and in some cases unavailable parts and I would want a big discount on the price of the boat.

Parts are NOT hard to find.

https://www.parts4engines.com/perkins-ht-6-354/

 

[bstanga]

I have a Perkins 6.354 in my 1972 Eagle 40 with around 2300 hrs. Runs like a train - the absolute pinnacle of early 70's technology! Leaks/drips oil (as expected) but doesn't burn oil unless you wind it up over 1800 RPMs (about doubles the fuel burn at high rpms as well). Usually not worth it for another 1.5 knots.

nb: air intake on mine uses a "fine spray of oil" over the intake vs a paper filter.

 

[driller66]

my 49 year old perkins 110hp engine,with almost 8000hrs on it runs like a clock. sips 1.7 gallons an hour cruising and hasn't even coughed after below zero winter startups ( i run lucas oil additive) IMO you're crazy if you swap it. Do regular oil changes and get your oil checked in the lab ($25) mine is also non turbo.Mine ALSO burns about a pint every 8 hours as advertised straight from factory. if you ever think of selling that engine....call me I could use another 20 hp!!! Peace!!

 

[Gypsyjon]

6-354 for sale

my 49 year old perkins 110hp engine,with almost 8000hrs on it runs like a clock. sips 1.7 gallons an hour cruising and hasn't even coughed after below zero winter startups ( i run lucas oil additive) IMO you're crazy if you swap it. Do regular oil changes and get your oil checked in the lab ($25) mine is also non turbo.Mine ALSO burns about a pint every 8 hours as advertised straight from factory. if you ever think of selling that engine....call me I could use another 20 hp!!! Peace!!

From Boats and Harbors:


PERKINS 6354.4, HP 130 @ 2,800 RPM, w/ transmission and exhaust riser. $2,250.00 OBO. (573) 289-2314

 

[Gatehopper]

Eagle

My father has a 1975 40’ eagle with a 120hp leman. Those 70 models where built like tanks. Good luck with yours.

 

[Max Simmons]

Other than smoking at start-up, my two 34 year old 6.354's have been trouble free (2,700 hrs), knocking on wood.
Would also like to find a Perkins mechanic in the Everett vicinity.

 

[Brooksie]

Parts are NOT hard to find.

https://www.parts4engines.com/perkins-ht-6-354/

I stand by what I said, there are no marinizing parts on your site only things you could get at any Massey Tractor dealer.