1989 Camargue 48 CPMY in Everett WA

[salishpaddler]

I'm considering purchase of this vessel, offered at $149K by Port Gardner Yacht Brokerage and I have a representative who's going to view it next week. It's been on the market for more than a year. Touted to be in "Bristol Condition" which is a pretty high bar. Has bow thruster, full beam galley, no dinette, but a larger salon with a free-standing dining table and two matching chairs, two queen cabins with showers, up-to-date electronics, but sitting in the open slip collecting seagull deposits all over the canvas makes me wonder how much attention has been given to this boat. One of the Cat 3208TA engines apparently had a meltdown and was replaced, so now there's a 1500 hour difference in engine use. Otherwise, it appears attractive and these are rare boats. It rings my bells, but if they're going to promote it as Bristol, I have a rigorous contingency list and surveyor who's eager to determine the truth of that claim.

Would appreciate any and all comments regarding this boat, particularly from Alaska Sea-Duction, as this boat is a virtual twin. Couldn't post a PM to Tom for the same reason I can't post the link: I'm not a "Trusted Member", but the boat is listed in Yachtworld and on the web page for Port Gardner Yacht Brokerage in Everett.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Hey there. The boat you are looking at is #3 in the PNW. The other one is now moored in Portland OR. We are full time cruisers and love our Camarque. Its a good sturdy vessel. We bought ours in 2013 in San Francisco bay area.

We have done a complete electronic upgrade. Wish we had bow thrusters.....

We have been to Alaska 2 times now and heading up summer 2019.

 

[salishpaddler]

Would appreciate it if you could take a look at the description and pics for a ballpark opinion. I had never seen a full beam galley on a boat this size. It's fully equipped with oven, microwave, dishwasher, compactor. I would prefer propane stovetop. Looks like ample room to install a clothes washer and dryer and I have a lead on a good used water maker. I think it's fully valued at $149 and might sell for thousands less since it's been on the market for so long. Do these boats take a longer than usual time to find a buyer?

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1989/Camargue-48-CPMY-3118018/

 

[Comodave]

Does it really only have 300 gallon fuel tanks? Otherwise it looks nice but for a 1989 I think that the price is way high, but I am used to east coast prices maybe the PNW prices are higher.

 

[salishpaddler]

The 300 gallon tankage is something my rep is going to check. I'm hoping it's 300x2.

PNW prices can run as much as 20% higher than the east coast for identical boats, prompting my curiosity as to why this one has been on the market for so long with such little apparent interest and little if any promotion by the broker. A Bristol boat is unlikely to have mounds of seagull droppings all over it. I think $120 is a far more realistic price for this boat.

I believe the most popular PNW boats are Tollycraft and Uniflite, both built in Washington and designed for PNW cruising. They each have an active PNW facebook page. The design and construction of the Camargue hull is virtually identical to the Uniflite 48 Yachtfisher, but without the blister issue.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

OK, Fuel tanks. There are 2 each 250 gal main tanks in the engine room and 2-50gal saddle tanks in the cockpit. At least mine is set up that way.

You have what is known as the extended floor plan in which the STBD side salon is extended and the galley moved to the port. The dinette originally in these boats were moved to the salon.

On ASD my galley is to STBD and the dinette is to Port. We have also invested in electronic upgrades. We navigate from the fly bridge only and rarely if ever navigate by the lower helm.

 

[salishpaddler]

Thanks for the information. ASD is absolutely gorgeous! My rep confirmed the fuel and fresh water capacity is x2. He's familiar with the brand and stated the reason these boats are so rare is the yard never developed a product line and most new yacht dealers were reluctant to pick up a brand that offered only a few options. Said it's essentially a boutique brand now, well-built with attention to detail, and yours bears that out.

He said, judging from the quality of the pics, if they're faithful representations it's unlikely that they'll let it go for $120, maybe $130 depending on the needs of the seller. I told him of my concern with the engine replacement and the overall fuel economy and he told me the 3208TA can empty the tank in a hurry at WOT but they can be reasonable at around 1400 RPM before the turbo spools up, just kick it up for a few minutes at the end of the day. As for running only a single screw, I've been led to believe that's a false economy and can lead to problems later. This is all new information for me of course and you folks already know far more than I have years remaining to learn. At any rate, he'll get the details on the replaced engine and the overall condition of the boat when he visits it. I'll keep you posted.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Here are my numbers for the cruise to Alaska 2017.

FINAL NUMBERS for ASD:

· Total Days of Cruise: 143

· Total Miles: 3649

· Moorage Costs: $3774 (includes 5 weeks at Ketchikan)

· Total Fuel: $7263

· Average Cost Per Gallon: $2.91

· Average MPG: 1.5

· Average Burn Rate: 5.94 gph (Includes Genny)

Here is the Blog:

The Alaskan Sea-Duction

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

I make the run from Astoria OR to Neah Bay WA which is 190 miles in 12 hours. Weather permitting. Running at 2100 RPM and 300 gallons of fuel.

 

[salishpaddler]

For a pair of hulking V8 engines pushing 750 hp and capable of putting that heavy boat on plane at 20+ knots, I can live with that! Do you ever participate in any PNW rendezvous with Uniflite owners? OTOH, with three of these in the area, maybe there should be a Camargue rendezvous.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

No rendezvous. This boat doesn't achive planning. At WOT it get right on the edge but doesn't go over the hump. We normally cruise ar 10mph which is our best speed. But when we go around the horn, ASD likes the 2100rpms. After about an hour of running the kitties settle down and runs great!!!

 

[salishpaddler]

Here's some Camargue porn.

 

[Comodave]

Nice to find out the fuel capacity is double, I thought 300 was very light with 3208TAs. Good luck looks like a nice boat.

 

[Al]

No rendezvous. This boat doesn't achive planning. At WOT it get right on the edge but doesn't go over the hump. We normally cruise ar 10mph (Crusty must be cringing!!! Knots, son, knots!!)which is our best speed. But when we go around the horn, ASD likes the 2100rpms. After about an hour of running the kitties settle down and runs great!!!

Surprised the term "Kitchen" or :Kitchen table, or "Bed room" wasn't used

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Here's some Camargue porn.

LOL. That is my boat!!![emoji1]

 

[sunchaser]

Looking at the "West Coast" thread is a good reminder as to why so many boat designs like ASD are popular on the west coast - speed. A slow trawler trying to beat a 48 hour weather window is no fun.

Fast cruise sells, to this day.

 

[salishpaddler]

LOL. That is my boat!!![emoji1]

Thought it might be! The dinette wall decoration gave it away.

So who owns the one in Portland? I've seen only one other on the west coast that was for sale at one time, a 1988 named "Knot Sailing" offered at $199K.

1988 Camargue 48 Drastic Reduction used boat for sale - boatersresources.com

 

[salishpaddler]

Looking at the "West Coast" thread is a good reminder as to why so many boat designs like ASD are popular on the west coast - speed. A slow trawler trying to beat a 48 hour weather window is no fun.

Fast cruise sells, to this day.

25GPH at WOT if I'm not mistaken, 20+ knots at what? around 2800 RPM?

I think I would prefer 1400 RPM, leisurely pace, but I would imagine the gotta getaway option is nice to have.

But I'm still concerned about the engine replacement in the Camargue I'm looking at. If the new one is 500 hours and the other is 2000 hours, assuming same hours of use before failure, the engine must have failed at around 1500 hours on the original pair. Bad luck? Poor maintenance? It's my understanding that if they make it past 500 hours they're golden. And how well matched are these engines with such a disparity? If it's not obvious, I'm asking all of these questions out of sheer ignorance. An oil analysis is only going to reveal so much and that depends on how long it's been in the engine, so there must be other means of determining the health of these beasts, but my rep says the best quick test is to see how easily they start and if they smoke longer than a very short time after startup and color of the smoke, how well do they make operating temp, and if all of that is normal, with a normal oil sample, then I should have no worries.

If the time comes that these older design engines require major work, what kind of other engine option might be feasible? Something smaller and lighter, smaller twin scrolls, higher compression, more hp per ci, more economical fuel consumption etc., . . .

ASD, have you ever given any thought to adding stabilizers? Do you have a clothes washer installed?

Cruisair reverse cycle AC on this boat would suggest it came from southern California. My rep says they're entirely adequate for the PNW.

Would love to stick one of these in the cockpit or salon for those chilly nights in the slip or at anchor.

 

[sunchaser]

. 25GPH at WOT if I'm not mistaken, 20+ knots at what? around 2800 RPM ?

You are correct if you firewall the boat. So don't firewall it. There is a huge difference in daily miles between 7 knots in a slow trawler (which ASD is not) versus 10 to 12 knots in a well designed SD hull.

The world abounds with SD hulls able to economically able to cover 250 nm per day if you so choose. This discussion is the essence of the now running West Coast thread IMHO. Camargue happens to be one that can do a long distance offshore trip covering +200 miles per day.

If I were looking at older boats in the 45 - 50 foot size range, a well tended Tolly 44 or 48 with a pair of Cummins 5.9s would be high on the list. Lots of them in WA and OR. BTW, don't worry about the 3208s. A good survey will tell their health. Prior maintenance and operating habits would be nice to know. Look them up on boat diesel.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Thought it might be! The dinette wall decoration gave it away.

So who owns the one in Portland? I've seen only one other on the west coast that was for sale at one time, a 1988 named "Knot Sailing" offered at $199K.

They texted me about a month ago. His name is Ralph. They bout the boat up in Puget Sound (Anacordes?). They have a 1989 model that with an interior like the one you are looking at.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

ASD, have you ever given any thought to adding stabilizers? Do you have a clothes washer installed?

Cruisair reverse cycle AC on this boat would suggest it came from southern California. My rep says they're entirely adequate for the PNW.

Would love to stick one of these in the cockpit or salon for those chilly nights in the slip or at anchor.

No stabs. I have learned to wait out the weather. I am only exposed in 2-3 places, so I don't need them. I have found out that if I have beam seas I lower both my hugh trim tabs and that seems to take some of the bite out of it.

Yes I do have a washer/dryer. I installed myself. I had to run electrical, plumbing, vent and tie into the drain pipe. It is located in the closet on the stbd side.

I have two reverse air units. The aft is 12K BTU and the compressor is currently being replaced. The fwd unit is 9K BTUs. They will cook you out or turn the boat into a meat locker.

I would not advise installing a wood stove. You would have to run a chimney and get black soot all over. I use a buddy heater to warm my sundeck in the winter when I am back there.

Good luck in your search.

 

[salishpaddler]

Seems like Splendide is the brand of choice!

 

[salishpaddler]

My purchase of the Camargue 48 in Everett WA blew up because the broker felt insulted by my contingencies and refused to proceed, so I'm in the market for another whose broker/owner isn't so thin-skinned. I might add, that particular boat is still there in its slip as inclement weather sets in, and the broker has provided no evidence that he's concerned about selling it, after some 18 months representing it.

 

[Comodave]

Did the broker present the offer to the owner? I was under the impression that they had a duty to present all offers. Or is the broker the owner? Just looked at the listing online, looks like a nice boat, too bad.

 

[salishpaddler]

Did the broker present the offer to the owner? I was under the impression that they had a duty to present all offers. Or is the broker the owner? Just looked at the listing online, looks like a nice boat, too bad.

The P&S Agreement had already been approved by all parties. The only thing remaining was final signatures and addendum page, on which I wrote my contingencies. AFAIK, the seller broker presented the contingencies and recommended not proceeding as he obviously believed them to be unreasonable. My new broker believes it's fruitless to continue to pursue it, as there must be some reason this boat remains unsold after 18 months in a seller's market and another will come along if I'm patient.

My key contingencies for a boat advertised as Bristol were removing seagull stains from the canvas, my intention that the survey would include a mechanic to conduct an in-depth examination of the diesel engines, since one had apparently melted down and was replaced, resulting in a 1500 hour discrepancy between the two CAT 3208TA engines; an examination of all maintenance records, operator manuals and logs, expectation that all scheduled maintenance was documented and up-to-date; complete cycling of all systems, including galley appliances; sea trial that would test all machinery to its limits at WOT. That was apparently more than they were willing to do.

Curiously, the broker's advertisement later deleted the photo that displayed the seagull's contributions.

 

[IRENE]

Your contingencies seem very reasonable and quite prudent. Glad you have a new broker.

The effort they put in to the current listing tells a story by itself.

Best Wishes

 

[Comodave]

That may well be the reason it has been for sale for a year and a half. Washing the boat and having basically a survey done isn’t much to ask if you really want to sell the boat.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Good Luck in your search!!!

 

[salishpaddler]

Good Luck in your search!!!

Just sell yours to me and I'll be all set!

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Just sell yours to me and I'll be all set!

LOL You couldn't afford ASD.....