2 questions

[Jmarsh203]

Here’s a question hopefully it’s not too personal but what price range are you in? Boats can vary greatly in price mostly depending on age and quality but if we had a price range we could more easily point you in the direction of a suitable boat. I think you are already in the right direction on size and expectations out of it. Also you east or west coast. While boats do move some some boats are more prevalent depending on the coast your on.

 

[backinblue]

Price would help, but so would the intended purpose or mission. I asked that earlier, but take say 34' as a desired length, there are a wide variety of 34' boats that differ greatly in their performance, accommodations, efficiency, etc, etc, etc. Even the term "trawler" can mean a lot of different things to different people as we all know.

 

[CharlieO.]

We started with a 34’ single screw.

 

[backinblue]

We started with a 34’ single screw.

With no prior boating experience?

 

[CharlieO.]

With no prior boating experience?

With no prior boat ownership. Did deckhand on a few boats when I was a young man in Alaska.

 

[Mac2]

Get the boat you want. First boat was a 36 Krogen Manatee. Single engine, no side decks. Second boat is 65 feet, 90 tons, twin engine. The 65 is much easier to handle then the 36 for docking/maneuvering and locking. Each had major learning curves to overcome. I have a harder time docking my 16 foot aluminum dinghy than both the above.
Other then not being able to purchase due to insurance, any boat you get will require a learning curve, so why not get the one you want? Also, any boat you get (new or used) will require the same knowledge base to understand the systems. Outside teak is the only thing I would try to limit.

 

[Fletcher500]

This is nothing new to anyone, but the fact that people buy a larger (say 40 ft plus) boat with no experience is a mind bender. Anyone can spend x hours with a Captain and learn the basics in order to satisfy insurance company criteria. But it takes years to learn the nuances of boat handling, safety, weather, and just basic nautical eitquette. Many of the collisions (and allusions) we read about involve people who did not have the proper background for the vessel. My first boat at age 14 was a sailboat with a lady bug on the sail that I purchased with my own money because a single mom and 4 kids did not involve the boating lifestyle. Worked up in size from there, like most people on this forum. Ok, getting off my soap box now.

OP, this is not directed at you, just responding to the subject in general.

 

[backinblue]

I think we all see people on an almost daily basis piloting boats where they obviously have no clue what they are doing. I anchor a lot, and sitting there for a day or 2 just watching people anchor, better than 25% don't know what they are doing (conservative estimate) and that's just anchoring. Example a week ago, a large sport fisher anchored with bow and stern anchors, but decide to be 180 degrees different than every other boat that was pointing into the wind. I guess it was more important to have their stern facing shore. Then another 2-3 boats rafted with them facing the same way. Lucky for them, it was a relatively calm night. Also, btw, nothing to tell anyone that a stern anchor was deployed, so a lot of near snags by other boats passing aft.

Long story short, anyone that can afford a boat can buy one and drive it. Doesn't mean they should.

 

[firehoser75]

The first boat that I owned was a 37 foot sailboat. I had no "real" prior boating experience. I took several Power Squadron courses, and a full one week hands on boating course (staying on board our boat at anchor overnight) with just my wife and an instructor. Instruction took place underway all day, with the bookwork coming for a couple of hours each night. We then took an all day (on the water) docking course, as well as several additional PS courses relating to Piloting, Electronic Navigation, Radar, etc.
We were well prepared and travelled long distances through many, many rapids, in areas with tide changes as large as 24 feet, spending many nights at anchor.

In those days, getting insurance was not as problematic as it appears to be now. Investigate that before purchase. Also investigate where you will get your training. To safely boat, training is needed for most people. BinB above has it right! There are a large number of boaters out there who don't know what they are doing.

It can be done very successfully if the "right" steps are taken. JMHO.
Good luck!

 

[Bacchus]

Hoping for some advice and suggestions..

1. If you are new to boating, and looking at getting your first trawler, at what length would I need to generally keep it under to get insurance? Can someone with no experience start at 32ft ? Or would they usually want to see something smaller to start?

2. Considering the answer for the first question, what smaller pocket trawlers make good first boats?

Thanks [emoji120]

David
I'll try to summarize my reactions to the many and varied responses you have received.
First... you have run into the situation often found here on TF (and other forums I'm sure). Many different opinions based on individual experiences and perspectives. Doesn't make anyone more right or wrong... just different. The good news they all provide some food for (your) thought.

#1. Generally good info and I happen to endorse the 32-36 range as realistic. Best if you define your intended use and what features you and yours feel are musts, wants & don't want.
Whether to go small initially and plan on selling / buying larger later depends on your intended use and if that suits your style.
IMO your location in Ontario provides some wonderful cruising areas that could provide learning in a fairly low risk situation (vs coastal cruising) With the right attitude, plan and effort it is reasonable to jump into the larger size... if it's done w/o the plan and effort even small isn't trouble free. How much time do you have ? If this is years away and starting small isn't a big negative sure it can be easier but if this is a retirement thing waiting too long can have significant downsides due to older & less agile, etc.

#2. Lots of options as others have mentioned. It doesn't have to be a pocket trawler... although there are some plusses depending on intended use. We started w a 24 ft sport cruiser... decided we liked cruising and that the 24 was not suited for what we liked. It took us several years of less than desirable cruising to find our 2nd a 28ft cruiser that suited or style very well. We were comfortable cruising for a few weeks to a month with it. Moved up to a 34 trawler style and have done a few months ver comfortably.

Sort of wished we had pulled the trigger on each step sooner as we likely would have had a much more enjoyable time on the cruises we did but smaller didn't hold us back.
Bottom line... your decision... both are doable given the right attitude of you and your SO. What ever you decide develop a plan based on your application of others suggestions & situations and make it fun implementing your plan.
You live in a absolutely wonderful area for cruising. Learn the skills and go practice them while enjoying yourself, on the water, in the process.

 

[huruta]

OP: we are in your shoes. We just bought a 32 Nordic Tug(first boat ever and new to boating). Insurance required 32 hours with a captain and ~2k per year for policy. Took 5 days of classes/chartering this year before buying.

 

[Bmarler]

I don't understand, sorry. That is something I try to enforce with my wife. It's tempting to try and fend off with a hand or foot, but I'd rather have a dinged boat than a broken limb. Also, they are called "rub rails" for a reason.

Just to add one thing to that line of thought. for me, fending off by hand is having a spare fender on a whip that you can instantly grab and drop in place to save the situation. It’s amazing to me how few boats carry enough fenders or too small.
Back to your regular program already in progress…

 

[backinblue]

Just to add one thing to that line of thought. for me, fending off by hand is having a spare fender on a whip that you can instantly grab and drop in place to save the situation. It’s amazing to me how few boats carry enough fenders or too small.
Back to your regular program already in progress…

Not a bad idea, but IMO usually things happen too quickly and your instinct to to push off with your hand or foot. I don't know how instantly someone could deploy a fender unless they already had it in hand anticipating a problem. Also a fender may not help in many situations. I'm not talking about just bouncing off a slip finger, but maybe something higer up the hull or even above the deck.

 

[Nepidae]

To specifically answer your questions, I'd suggest you contact a couple of insurance companies or a broker and see what is required to bind you to insurance.

In today's world of Checkbook captains, a 26' center console may not require any experience. 26' is the most used boat on the water, I believe, based on BoatUS numbers.

Might I suggest that while you are looking for a boat, and as someone stated and I didn't read all of the responses, the boat you buy should meet your needs NOT what can I get to 'trick' the insurance company.

We chartered a 37' for a look see for my mate to make sure she wanted to cruise. The 37 was a little too small for us so I looked at a 40. Side decks were too tight, and you need that movement when doing locks and anchoring. We found a 43 that meets our needs. I wanted a boat to be comfortable and to do the Loop in.

You might also use your non-boat time to take a couple of classes with the Coast Guard Aux. This doesn't take the place of experience, which most insurance companies really like to see, but it is part of the background that they like to see.

I'll close with the idea that Canadian insurance might be completely different than insurance in the states.

Good luck.

 

[Leo Reise]

My two cents: we sailed fo 52 years, the last 25 on a 32 foot sail boat. We wanted to stay under 36 feet for a number of reasons. We purchased an Island Gypsy 32 sedan w/ fly bridge. We are happy in our decision. But that is us!
Down side - cruise @ 7.5 knots, no AC, no generator. Upside 1 l fuel burn per 1 nm, fits into any marina.

Real upside - we are 700 nm into the Loop having a blast.

 

[Captain DJ]

We have had boats for more than 32 years. First a 21-foot cuddy cabin Sea Ray, then a 33 CC Coho, then a 38 Marinette, then a 1957 Chris Craft 35 ft convertible constellation, then a 42 Grand Banks Classic. Now a 34-foot Cheoy Lee Pilothouse Trawler. Gotta say this 34-footer is the sweet spot of just big enough to do some serious cruising. Especially since adding solar panels and lithium batteries. May be forced to sell due to current life issues. PM if interested in more details.
Captain DJ

 

[Mac2]

What do insurance companies consider experience? As I previously stated, my first boat was 36 feet. I grew up on a lake, so I had about 20 years of "boat" experience. In the late 90s, my insurance company considered a ski boat as boating experience. No other training necessary. Would training have helped regardless-yes. Does training cure stupid-nope.

 

[BluewaterN47]

Start at the beginning!

With more than 50 years of boating experience under sail and power, including a couple of ocean crossings aboard trawlers, my counsel would be to focus first on the boat you want for the job at hand. Start by writing a position description for the boat, answering these important questions to the best of your ability:

--Why are you buying the boat?
--Where do you hope to take her?
--What do you want to do with her?
--Where will you keep her?
--What will be the size of your usual crew? Your maximium crew?
--Where do you hope to be cruising: inland waters or coastal waters or offshore--or all of the above?
--How many days or weeks or months a year do you expect to be aboard?
--Are you comfortable maintaining your own equipment?
--What do you know about engines, batteries, AC and DC electrical systems, plumbing, and other yacht systems?
--Who will be maintaining the boat--you or others? Or a combination?

I know people with zero boating experience who started with ocean-crossing trawlers such as Nordhavn 55s as their first boats and did just fine. But the usual route is to start with smaller boats, typically in the 30+ foot range and learn from there. But be aware that buying the wrong boat can be a very expen$ive mistake.

Whatever you do, buy a boat with a brand that is well known and appreciated by the market. No matter how "perfect" a boat might seem to you, don't make the mistake of buying an "orphan", a brand or model that had a limited run or, even worse, that is one-of-a-kind. Such boats are awfully hard to sell and they bring low prices when the time to sell comes--and the time always comes.

Once you own a boat, you'll find that there are excellent training captains who can teach you what you need to know and also certify you so you can get insurance. The Chapman School of Seamanship in Stuart, FL, for example, can also teach you what you need to know. Even before you buy a boat and define your needs, you might to well to go to that school or another to learn more about boating and boats.

When you are ready to start looking for a boat, get a trustworthy "buyer's" broker who specializes in the particular kinds of boats that interest you. Do your own due diligence on the broker before signing on with him or her. Talk to at least a half dozen of his/her customers to get a feel for how well he/she satisfies customers. If necessary, interview several brokers until you find the right one to add to your team.

And if you are thinking about trawlers, be sure to go to TrawlerFest which is held at several locations around the country. There you'll meet others on the same path as you. And you'll learn more than you can imagine.

You're at the beginning of a long and interesting path. Take your time, learn as you go, and take time to smell the roses along the way.

Milt Baker, American Tug 34064 Bluewater V (and former owner Nordhavn 47 Bluewater)

 

[PaulB.]

I second the suggestion of chartering a boat close to the size you are considering before you buy and possibly with a training captain. Look at South West Florida yacht charters as a winter possibility. Le Boat on the Rideau Canal for next summer or several charter companies on the Erie Canal. The Toronto boat show in January will have all the Canadian insurance companies present for you to talk with. Fall and winter power squadron classes are worthwhile. No one has mentioned the Camaro 32 as a good boat in your size range. Paul B.

 

[PaulB.]

Oops. Auto correct error. Should be Camano!

 

[hudramsay]

My first boat was a Willard 30 and when I sold it I stated that it was a great boat on which to learn. It was simple and forgiving. We moved the boat from Detroit to the Baltimore, Md. area one week after taking ownership. The biggest boat I had previously owned was a 15 outboard. In the 3 years that we owned it on the Chesapeake, we got into some serious crosschop on the bay and I declared in my sales pitch that it taught me that the boat can take a lot more than the people are willing to think is safe. It had all the systems that one needs to learn how to operate. Dirt simple Perkins 4-107 diesel.

It was a $40,000 boat and I think that if I couldn't get insurance I'd just take the risk. If you stay away from the hard stuff (rocks) even going aground is not a big deal in most cases-get out and push it off.

Buy simple and buy inexpensive for your first boat.

By the way-if anyone is looking for a great marina in the Baltimore area-the Fairview Marina is just wonderful. Beautiful place and great staff doing wonderful work. A first class place.

 

[seadancer]

Hoping for some advice and suggestions..

My first boat was a 27' SeaRay, single engine inboard/outboard. Had lots of room for me and 3 kids, but as soon as you put it in neutral, there was no control (No rudder.) I sold it and got a twin engine 28' Marinette. That is an all aluminum sedan cruiser. Absolutely perfect boat to learn on. Twin engines plus rudders made it easy to maneuver in close quarters. Light weight meant easy to push off if I got too close to the dock or another boat. Fast enough to get to port or home when necessary. The transition to my current 37' heavy fiberglass boat was easy.

 

[BruceK]

... I think that if I couldn't get insurance I'd just take the risk. If you stay away from the hard stuff (rocks) even going aground is not a big deal in most cases-get out and push it off...

Accepting the uninsured risk of your own boat is one thing, but no cover for 3rd party liability?? Not a risk I`d run.

 

[ronobrien]

Hoping for some advice and suggestions..

1. If you are new to boating, and looking at getting your first trawler, at what length would I need to generally keep it under to get insurance? Can someone with no experience start at 32ft ? Or would they usually want to see something smaller to start?

2. Considering the answer for the first question, what smaller pocket trawlers make good first boats?

Thanks [emoji120]

A little bit aside,but I would recommend that anyone new take a captain's course. It is lengthy and even if you don't comprehend all of it, or if you can't pass the exam, you will understand more about what you don't know which can be nearly as valuable as what you do. You would not qualify for a license without the required days at sea, but the overview is always helpful.