6.354 new exhaust & stuff

[boomerang]

This past winter I was faced with the dilemma of what to do with the Perkins in our boat. We would get a whiff of exhaust smoke in the cabin so I removed the exhaust & turbo blankets to investigate and found the previous owner had wrapped the turbo housing,exhaust mixer & everything else that was deteriorated with a muffler bandage. My fault for not picking up on it during the initial survey but the engine ran so well & I just didn't feel like I wanted to undo the turbo blankets for fear of them not going back correctly. Lesson learned...next time I'll investigate a little farther. Anyway,attached are pictures of the condition of everything hidden inside of the turbo blankets.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. b. Nasty! Well, the good thing is you didn't break any exhaust studs. You're 1/2 way there IMO. Thanks for the look-see.

 

[boomerang]

I'm lucky Trans Atlantic Diesel is close by and even more lucky they had everything in stock! From everything I've read, the turbo was going to be hard to come by. Not only did they have one in stock, they offered me the option of a reman turbo which saved me $3-400. Sheri fixed me up with everything I needed, right down to every gasket, nut bolt & washer.
I ran the idea of changing the raw water cooled exhaust manifold to be included in the closed cooling loop of the engine but Marcus @ TAD just wasn't keen on doing it. He insisted the manifold was robust enough to last in salt water for many years but if I was worried to just fresh water flush the engine once a week or so. Since I replaced the Raritan sea water strainer with a new one anyway, I incorporated a 3-way valve in the system to flush it with. It works pretty slick plus it'll make winterizing a little easier too.
A couple on cans of paint later (I went with a Rustoleum color...the Perkins OEM paint is just so bland!) and the engine is gleaming once again. We took it out for a short first cruise of the season yesterday & everything performed flawlessly.
We're finally nearing the end of our Mainships complete rebuild. It's time to start cruising instead of working.

 

[Pack Mule]

Wow, that's a great job removing all that. Did you have to split the nuts in half to keep from twisting off studs?
We must have been posting at the same time . I just saw post #3. Man this looks great.

 

[boomerang]

Greetings,
Mr. b. Nasty! Well, the good thing is you didn't break any exhaust studs. You're 1/2 way there IMO. Thanks for the look-see.

Luck was with me for the manifold replacement, Mr RTF! Some of the studs did merit replacement but NONE rung off & I was able to source them locally.

 

[boomerang]

Wow, that's a great job removing all that. Did you have to split the nuts in half to keep from twisting off studs?

The turbo adapter was the only place I needed to use a chisel to get the turbo separated from the adapter. The rest came out relatively easy, believe it or not. Mostly in pieces, though.

 

[sunchaser]

I'm impressed, great handiwork! Ya gotta love Perkins engines and TAD.

 

[Mrwesson]

I had some corrosion and similar leakage issues on my perkins 354 but most of my corrosion was on the turbo housing. I simply replaced it with a Chinese HX35 knock off turbo for under $300(about 200 hours or so going strong). The old turbo just needed a new housing but wanted to experiment. It bolted right up to the flange but the outlet was slightly different so it was welded direct to the mixing elbow. I hate v-band clamps.. They always seem to leak.

There's no increase in power with the upgraded turbo because in a diesel you add fuel for power but these chinese turbos seem to hold up very sell in the Cummins circles.

I no longer use a turbo blanket.

 

[Solly]

Looks like a leak from the raw water outlet or hose did that. Blanket held the salt water around the turbo and with the heat rusted everything.
Good work on the replacement !!

 

[tumblehome]

Man, everything about the engine and engine compartment looks super!

 

[boomerang]

@ Solly, you're right, it does seem that salt water was the culprit but I assure you there haven't been any raw water leaks since we owned the boat but like I mentioned, the PO did (and hid) a lot of patch work so there's no telling what issues were there prior to us buying it.
@ tumblehome, thanks. Fresh paint & LED lighting really brighten the area up!

 

[Solly]

I simply replaced it with a Chinese HX35 knock off turbo for under $300(about 200 hours or so going strong).

Mrwesson...
Looking for more info please...
Was the original turbo water cooled ?
Mine is ( H1B ) and I was wondering about replacing it some time. Maybe with 1 that isn't water cooled if that's possible.
What did you have to do as far as blocking off the water passages and mounting the turbo ?? Have to be a different hole pattern.

 

[Mrwesson]

I simply replaced it with a Chinese HX35 knock off turbo for under $300(about 200 hours or so going strong).

Mrwesson...
Looking for more info please...
Was the original turbo water cooled ?
Mine is ( H1B ) and I was wondering about replacing it some time. Maybe with 1 that isn't water cooled if that's possible.
What did you have to do as far as blocking off the water passages and mounting the turbo ?? Have to be a different hole pattern.

** Purchase/install at your own risk. I can only say it's worked for me and I have under 1000 hours on it.

Posting info like this can be dangerous but i'm pretty confident that it's safe enough.

It was the holset 3LD(not water cooled) and I replaced it with a Holset H1C chinese turbo(also not water cooled). Pretty straight forward swap except a couple of fittings being a bit different. It's my understanding the H1C is almost identical in housing and turbine size so performance should remain the same. Some say a small amount of added HP but I'm skeptical.

I've not heard of the water cooled 354 turbo but i'll look into it to see if I can help.

People report power improvements but I don't see how that is possible with the 354. I'm pretty sure the only way to add power is by turning up the fuel pump. This is a good thing though.

Mine shows no sign on wearing out FWIW.

It was $228 on ebay(Gyturbo). Pretty sure this is the exact one I ordered. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Upgrade-Tu...et-H1C-S2EL-/263333545528?hash=item3d4fe70638


Apparently these turbo's dont show their chinese colors unless you stress them in high HP applications. For a low boost tractor engine it'll hold up forever. The components are made out of the same material. If you're worried that it'll let you down order 2 (comparable turbo from Perkins is 1700 refurbished although unlikely to be as good).

If your stock 3LD is performing well then then the only reason I see ordering the ebay turbo is for a backup on the loop or just as a backup. Mine corroded @ the housing(similar to OP) so I had to do something.

EDIT Apparently you can run a water cooled turbo and simply cap the water passages or leave them dry. Many road going turbo cars are built around some water cooled turbos and they do it. I wouldn't cap a water cooled turbo but it's a strong sign that the mounts are the same(they look the same) so you should be able to simply swap in a H1C or 3LD. I'm not certain of this and it comes off of 10 minutes of research so I highly suggest doing your own.

 

[ABL]

Mrwesson

I have a 1980 MS1 and I'm in need of a Turbo. You provided a link and said you "think" it was the exact one you purchased. I want to purchase it but just want to check with you before I do. Looks very similar to my Holset... Please let me know your thoughts. Perkins T6 354. I basically have the exact same set-up as the photos above. (although not nearly as clean looking)

 

[STB]

Most likely that engine had a Holset 3LD turbo. Any equivalent to that should work.

Older engines that haven't been upgraded may have had a Mk. 1/5 variant turbo. But, that was out of production fast and they were converted for the Holset 3LD as they needed replacement.

I'd feel better seeing the manufacturer's plate on your turbo. But, guessing blind, I'd say any true Holset 3LD equivalent or replacement should work.

This was a very popular turbo with many still in use, so an advert for a replacement will likely call it out.

 

[ABL]

Turbo plate numbers:

Here are the plate numbers on my turbo:
517453
2674222
53894/4
3LD1224
I'm just afraid of buying the wrong one, I don't know much about them.
I prefer aftermarket, TAD will sell me one but I think they go for big $$.

 

[STB]

Okay. That looks to be a Holset 3LD or equivalent.

 

[ABL]

Holset

Yep that’s the one! Any ideas on where to find one?

 

[STB]

My usual suggestions are...
-- swdieselinc.com
-- TAD Diesel

If you call S&W, ask for Scott.

They both know that engine well and can get you the right turbo as well as gaskets and clamps, etc, so you can go from knowing nothing to bolting it in with no sweat.

My memory is that S&W set me up with v-clamps for a non-Perkins engine that turned out to fit and be easier to get on.

Alternately, any local turbo shop or Massey Ferguson dealer can order one for you. The turbo shop likely won't know your engines, clamps, gaskets, etc. And the MF dealer won't know the details of your exhaust.

Alternatively, you can get an H1C or clone thereof, which is really cheap. It should bolt up okay. And, it may give a hair more boost and low temps. But, the other plumbing won't match up, so you'll need to iron that out in the boat.

 

[PM]

Since the Covid thing I have made a sincere effort to remain positive about everything.

You are one LUCKY boater!, no turbo destruct which can damage the engine, no severe leak which could ruin the engine or boat, easy replacement, parts located with a minimum of fuss..Yes, you are one lucky boater.

Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing. Imagine the scenario if you had asked the P.O., "Ever had any turbo issues?" Who would have thought??

Great story and great pictures.

pete

 

[STB]

Also, take a look at the adapter plate between the manifold and the turbo. Make sure it is smooth and free of pits and corrosion or you can get an exhaust leak. If there is a problem, it most likely isnt a big one. Just bring the adapter plate into any machine shop and they can smooth it back out for you so it seals well. And, even if it is totally shot, you can get another one or one made, it isnt complex.

 

[boomerang]

Since the Covid thing I have made a sincere effort to remain positive about everything.

You are one LUCKY boater!, no turbo destruct which can damage the engine, no severe leak which could ruin the engine or boat, easy replacement, parts located with a minimum of fuss..Yes, you are one lucky boater.

Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing. Imagine the scenario if you had asked the P.O., "Ever had any turbo issues?" Who would have thought??

Great story and great pictures.

pete

You can be assured that when the time comes for another boat purchase, I *will* peel the turbo blanket back and take a peek to see if there's any hidden damage. At the time, I really wasn't comfortable doing it when I looked over everything because I didn't want to mess up the newish turbo blanket but yes, in hindsight I should have. I would've seen that the turbo housing was patched with roll after roll of fiberglass muffler tape and if I didn't walk away from the deal, we would've at least negotiated a little more fiercely. Oh well, like you said about being positive, we did get a couple of years out of that muffler tape patch job!

 

[ABL]

Thanks GKESDEN, I guess my main concern is getting the right exhaust size to match my current exhaust elbow. I'd hate to pick one up and then have to go through the aggravation of figuring out how to connect the new turbo to the old exhaust. Thanks again for the insight, I'll look into both places.

 

[STB]

Hi ABL,

Unless you replace it with a 3LD equivalent, you as re going to get into some plumbing. It is all doable, but will be a small project vs a swap. You may need to work out the exhaudt flange, oil lines, etc.

MrWesson who posted earlier on this thread had, I think, done this. Here is a post describing what he did:
-- https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=707555&postcount=17

Otherwise, like I said, call S&W or TAD and they'll set you up for a swap replacement.

 

[Brent Dawson]

Hey Boomerang. I'm looking at doing this same exact repair on a 34 Mainship Mark l with the Perkins T6 354 that I'm looking at purchasing. My only fear is snapping the exaust manifold bolts off.
There a bit rusty. What was your trick to getting the bolts out of the exaust manifold? I was planning on using PB Blaster soaking them and hitting them with some heat and slowly try to wrench them out. Did your Perkins originally come with a inter cooler/after cooler? It looks like it was deleted or bypassed from your pictures.

 

[Gdavid]

Hey Boomerang. I'm looking at doing this same exact repair on a 34 Mainship Mark l with the Perkins T6 354 that I'm looking at purchasing. My only fear is snapping the exaust manifold bolts off.
There a bit rusty. What was your trick to getting the bolts out of the exaust manifold? I was planning on using PB Blaster soaking them and hitting them with some heat and slowly try to wrench them out. Did your Perkins originally come with a inter cooler/after cooler? It looks like it was deleted or bypassed from your pictures.

I replaced my exhaust manifold last year, the hardware to the head was no problem at all, about 1/2 of the studs came out rather than the nuts but this was no big deal, I bought my manifold from mrcool.us.

https://www.mrcool.us/6354-perkins-exhaust-manifold.html

 

[Brent Dawson]

Good job! That Perkins is looking fantastic. Also what brand of fresh water flush kit is that? Or did you customize make that yourself for flushing out the main engine?

 

[Brent Dawson]

I'm lucky Trans Atlantic Diesel is close by and even more lucky they had everything in stock! From everything I've read, the turbo was going to be hard to come by. Not only did they have one in stock, they offered me the option of a reman turbo which saved me $3-400. Sheri fixed me up with everything I needed, right down to every gasket, nut bolt & washer.
I ran the idea of changing the raw water cooled exhaust manifold to be included in the closed cooling loop of the engine but Marcus @ TAD just wasn't keen on doing it. He insisted the manifold was robust enough to last in salt water for many years but if I was worried to just fresh water flush the engine once a week or so. Since I replaced the Raritan sea water strainer with a new one anyway, I incorporated a 3-way valve in the system to flush it with. It works pretty slick plus it'll make winterizing a little easier too.
A couple on cans of paint later (I went with a Rustoleum color...the Perkins OEM paint is just so bland!) and the engine is gleaming once again. We took it out for a short first cruise of the season yesterday & everything performed flawlessly.
We're finally nearing the end of our Mainships complete rebuild. It's time to start cruising instead of working.

Hey Boomerang do you know what Rustoleum color blue paint that is that you used? I know they make a Navy blue and a Sailor blue but those 2 colors look a little different the blue you used. I'm getting ready to paint my Perkins T6 354

 

[boomerang]

Hey Boomerang do you know what Rustoleum color blue paint that is that you used? I know they make a Navy blue and a Sailor blue but those 2 colors look a little different the blue you used. I'm getting ready to paint my Perkins T6 354

I thought it was Ace Hardware's safety blue paint. I had the engine room all painted up with fresh white and couldn't bring myself to painting the engine with the drab Perkins blue!

 

[Brent Dawson]

Oh ok. I was in our local Ace hardware store yesterday and I saw the Ace brand safety blue that looked like the same color. Thanks for the response. Much appreciated.