8 People on Fly Bridge?

[Benthic2]

What is your role in this trip ? Are you working to provide your passengers enjoyment, or are you hoping to have a good time yourself ?? Will 8 people on the FB impact your enjoyment ? I could not relax if I had any lingering doubts about my passengers or my boat.

Will the passengers have a good time if they are restricted to 4 people at a time up there ? I suspect they'll be thrilled to be out on the harbor, enjoying the moment, whether on the foredeck, cockpit or bridge.

It seems there is very little downside to erring on the side of caution, with the upside being your passengers safety and your enjoyment.

You could always just play it by ear. Perhaps not everyone will want to go up there and it won't be an issue.

 

[Benthic2]

You could also post these all around the boat.....

 

[Art]

You could also post these all around the boat.....

8760 a year = Ouch!!

 

[Lepke]

It's not only stability, but the weight the upper deck was engineered to support. My boat was licensed for charter and could carry 50 day passengers. Nearly every upper deck beam had cracks or separations. PO was lucky the beams were old, tight grain grain fir or they would have had a failure. Flaws were all painted over, usual sell tricks.
I've seen newer construction. Typical new, loose grain wood. Putting 1500 pounds on the fly bridge is like putting one of my Detroit mains up there. You wouldn't do that even in port. How much stress is added when pounding across other wakes or the waves put up by the afternoon winds?

 

[Art]

It's not only stability, but the weight the upper deck was engineered to support. My boat was licensed for charter and could carry 50 day passengers. Nearly every upper deck beam had cracks or separations. PO was lucky the beams were old, tight grain grain fir or they would have had a failure. Flaws were all painted over, usual sell tricks.
I've seen newer construction. Typical new, loose grain wood. Putting 1500 pounds on the fly bridge is like putting one of my Detroit mains up there. You wouldn't do that even in port. How much stress is added when pounding across other wakes or the waves put up by the afternoon winds?

Really good point!

 

[markpierce]

...
Somewhere I have a photo of Markpierce on my 34 LRC flybridge at the SF Fleet Week 2012. It must have been a traumatic experience for him to feel the way he says he feels. It was rolly that day on the bay. ...

That day a jet fighter went absolutely vertical directly above us. Fortunately, we were in the uncovered cockpit, so had a completely unobstructed view.

 

[BruceK]

....Other than the sticker, it's a judgement call...

Who affixed the faded sticker? What was the research for it? What is its validity when an issue arises?
Anyone with a "sticker" would be unwise to rely on it as such.

 

[rwidman]

Who affixed the faded sticker? What was the research for it? What is its validity when an issue arises?
Anyone with a "sticker" would be unwise to rely on it as such.

Seriously?

It was original to the boat. Just like the ones on new smaller boats explaining that a spinning propeller is dangerous.

It matches the remains of the stickers designating where slings are to be placed to lift the boat out of the water.

Sometimes, things are just what they seem to be.

 

[BandB]

My GB 32 weighs, all up, close to 20,000 pounds. Next month, during the SF Fleet Week air show, I will have a total of 8 people on the boat, including me.
SF Bay can get a bit windy and bumpy, and I remember reading of a few cases where powerboats capsized, apparently due to top-heavy overloading. 8 adult Americans probably weigh a total of over 1,500 pounds

So, may have your knowledge and/or thoughts about whether or not I need to limit the number of people on the fly bridge?

Thanks in advance.
Oldersalt

Wifey B: I love love love flybridges, but....

How many can you seat on the flybridge? I'm betting no more than 4 or 6 max.

I wouldn't have more than I have seats for in case rolling starts. My guess is that the most I would be comfortable having on it in totally benign conditions would be 6 and in other sea conditions would be 4.

 

[Oldersalt]

I'm the OP. Thanks for all the responses! Since the 'back porch' on my GB 32 is covered by hard-to-remove canvas, I was hoping to fit everybody on the fly bridge. Technically, there is built-in seating for 8 up there, if people squeeze a bit (4 bench seats that could fit 2 people each). And there is room for at least a couple of folding chairs. 8 adults COULD fit up there and not feel too crowded.

However, I am typically a pretty cautious skipper and, as one response put it (more or less), "if you have to ask the question you already know the answer." So, 4 people max upstairs at any one time. The others can look out from under the aft cockpit bimini or head up to the bow (wearing pfds, of course). Or, I can anchor a bit further away from the action so little if any of the good stuff happens directly overhead.

Thanks again for all your thoughtful and helpful replies.

Oldersalt

 

[firstbase]

I don't have this problem simply because I don't have 8 family members or friends who can get along well enough to be in any size confined space together. If through some set or circumstances they were all together all I would have to do is say "Obama", "Trump" or "religion". Immediate breakout groups, max size of 4.

 

[cool beans]

I still have the factory weight limit sticker for the fly bridge on mine for 750 lbs...which isn't a lot. On the other hand, 4-5 on the fly bridge is wicked crowded. Luckily, I have a sweet and nearly flat fore deck for everyone to hang out on

 

[AusCan]

Wise decision, Oldersalt. I wouldn't allow over 4.

Our local regulations (in South Australia) allow a maximum of 25% of total persons capacity on the flybridge at any time.

 

[pjwhite]

I attended Fleet Week last year in my Grand Banks 32. Even in calm weather, your boat will be bouncing around quite a bit, due to all the other boats zipping around, leaving wakes going every direction. I spent some time on my flybridge, trying to take videos while the boat rocked under me. I felt like I was balancing on a "bongo board", if you know what I mean.
If I were you, I wouldn't allow any more people on the bridge than you have seating up there, which will be either 3 or 6, depending on your boats seating configuration.
I'll guess that most of your guests won't last long, rocking and rolling up there.

 

[BruceK]

Seriously?

It was original to the boat. Just like the ones on new smaller boats explaining that a spinning propeller is dangerous.

It matches the remains of the stickers designating where slings are to be placed to lift the boat out of the water.

Sometimes, things are just what they seem to be.

Of course I wasn`t serious.
I just wanted to give you a taste of your own pedantic nit picking search for anything you could contrive to criticize.
And it worked.

 

[psneeld]

Of course I wasn`t serious.
I just wanted to give you a taste of your own pedantic nit picking search for anything you could contrive to criticize.
And it worked.

Didnt know it was a fishing thread otherwise I would have jumped in sooner....

I am with Ski on this one....no one can answer unless there is guidance from the manufacturer and someone has checked the structure carefully to see if it is in good shape and original boat configuration hasn't changed much.

There are some simplistic tests to check stability. Noting the hang time when she rolls a bit is key but it still takes time and effort to experiment.

Captains of boats used where ice builds aloft are very sensitive to this "hang time" and know when to start breaking off ice if they dont want to roll over.

So thats how you do a quick check, put weight aloft, start a roll and see at what point the small roll dangeously slows. I bet it is easy enough to find on the web, I even think the calculations were once posted in TF when a similar question came up

 

[Art]

Didnt know it was a fishing thread otherwise I would have jumped in sooner....

I am with Ski on this one....no one can answer unless there is guidance from the manufacturer and someone has checked the structure carefully to see if it is in good shape and original boat configuration hasn't changed much.

There are some simplistic tests to check stability. Noting the hang time when she rolls a bit is key but it still takes time and effort to experiment.

Captains of boats used where ice builds aloft are very sensitive to this "hang time" and know when to start breaking off ice if they dont want to roll over.

So thats how you do a quick check, put weight aloft, start a roll and see at what point the small roll dangeously slows. I bet it is easy enough to find on the web, I even think the calculations were once posted in TF when a similar question came up

Well put. And, as you mention, I'm sure that commercial vessel Captains experiencing ice build up aloft become quite keen as to boat roll [hang times] and when to get the ice knocked off.

However, for small pleasure boats... say 25' to 70' I think it should be fairly easy for the captain to understand when enough is enough regarding human or any other type of weight aloft. I'd call it common sense without need for roll tests by applying weight above. Of course, to error on the side of caution is the prudent way to go... all lives matter and it's total responsibility of the Captain to do the best to protect everyone!

 

[Art]

Perhaps I'm incorrect with this thought... but, in a general engineering sense... it seems to me:

Regarding same length boat...


Fairly wide waterline berth, hard chine planning hull shape would have less "roll-over" tendency that a more narrow waterline berth, soft chine full displacement hull shape.

Above is quote from my post # 20. Although H chimed in with basic agreement [thanks H!] I was anticipating [hoping for] maybe getting some input from marine-hull design engineers. Although I'm fairly sure my statement is at least fairly correct... I'm certainly no marine engineer.

That said, it also seems obvious that roll factors are not only affected by a boat's beam and actual chine design or the factor of the hull being D, SD or P... but also weight and sizes of keel as well as cog due to weights in bilge such as placement areas of motors and fluid tankage [filled, 1/2 full or not]. I believe that all this and more becomes factors adding up to how much weight aloft is safe before rollover. Again safety first... no where near too much weight aloft is the best plan!

 

[psneeld]

Sure err to the side of caution, and if we were to go with with the Australian guidelines, most would think that too conservative for a decent day on the bay.

But beyond that formula, a manufactrer sticker or a roll test, everything else is a guess.

And dicussing common sense is hysterical. One thread everyone says use it, and another everyone says no one has it but them and a few others.

I like to split the difference. Even though a few here always say you have to be a terminal professional, a good one at that and probably only one they would recommend.....

I think most here are smart enough to do a little research, build a source of info that leads to "common sense" decisions and go from there.

So to answer the OPs question, with no manufactures guidance, no sticker, several "I did it" comments and others who would be scared to be up there by themselves.....

I would suggest picking door number 2 and go with the Aussie equation.

Me, if I thought my flybridge would support all the people in a seaway without working it too bad....I would look up the roll test guidelines, get them on the bridge before I left and go through the basic test. Guaranteed? Nope, but way more info than anyone has here so far.

 

[Nomad Willy]

If you're going to have 8 people on the FB there will be times when they will all rush to one side to see something. So that is what needs to be considered. That's why that whale watching boat capsized a coupla of years ago out of Tofino BC.

Nix on 8 people. And you the skipper should run the boat from the lower helm to set an example. And if that isn't enough exercise your power as skipper .. just say no.

 

[CDreamer]

My wife says I'm a Solutions Guy, so...He could tow a couple of guests in his dinghy on a long rope so they'd have an unobstructed view of the event. Just tell them, "Two in the dinghy now, or 8 in the dinghy later." No hors d'oeuvres, but he could toss them a six-pack.

 

[BandB]

Nix on 8 people. And you the skipper should run the boat from the lower helm to set an example. And if that isn't enough exercise your power as skipper .. just say no.

And with all of it, your friends who are worthy of joining you on these occasions will appreciate that you're being careful and protective of them and others, who want to argue or pout over it, you know quickly not to take out again. This is just one of many decisions you make as captain of your boat and those who have a problem with this one are the same ones who would refuse to follow your orders in other serious situations.

You just outline the rules at the time of boarding and make sure you do so in a polite but firm way that makes it clear they are non-negotiable. We walk everyone through our rules their first time aboard. They must know that if you say for all to put their PFD's on at some point, all must do it. That if you say everyone inside, they do it. They don't ask questions or delay. If you say, get the life raft and get ready to abandon ship, they do it.

A couple of ours which may seem silly to some is that on our boat you will use high SPF suntan lotion and when we're docking, you won't move from where you are unless the captain has asked you to assist. All are designed for safety. And most important of all, is the captain is in charge.

 

[chriscritchett]

Any thought of actually trying to contact GB with this question? Or, there must be GB owner's forums, no? Surely these calculations (estimates) have been done before and the information disseminated, and the OP has 2 weeks to make a decision based on something more informed than this thread.

Or, as others have said, practice in the slip. And then adjust every decision you make on the actual day; some of the scarier conditions I've seen have been spectator-fleet-generated chop, not to mention the other hazards of such a crowd.

 

[sunchaser]

As an aside, the placards that say XX kg or so many bodies are not additive. Many boats with a FB leave the factory without a FB cover, radar arch, dinghy, davit, grill, freezer etc. This added weight aloft already exceeds the placard weight. Then some dufus says "I'm good for XX people." Uh uh.

 

[rwidman]

I don't believe capacity placards are required in the USA above a certain sized boat. And that size is pretty small, smaller than most trawlers.

Someone suggested contacting the boat's manufacturer. That's a good idea. Anything else is just guesses.

 

[AusCan]

You have to consider people on the flybridge as unsecured load that could easily shift and move to one side when the boat rolls in a wake or wave.
Just telling people to stay seated isn't enough, unless there are seat belts fitted.

 

[BruceK]

Our RMS ("Roads and Maritime", an odd combination) has the motto "You`re the Skipper, you`re responsible". I think it really means "We (RMS) are not, so don`t blame us."
Following that, when I acquired my boat there was no loading sticker affixed near the helm, as required. So I asked for one, for the specific boat, which is well described in its annually renewed RMS registration($215pa).
RMS sent me a sticker, numbers field blank,with some adhesive numbers to stick on it. It was for me to decide the load limit, and if I or anyone else operate "overloaded",a fine would apply.
Tempted as I was to put "100", to avoid any risk of an overloading prosecution,I made a serious attempt at it. It did have the effect of making me think about it with some care. But it seemed odd. Could I also set my maximum freeway speed at say 200klm/h, thereby avoiding prosecution for exceeding the posted lower limit.I guess not.
DIY may have gone too far.

 

[FF]

"Could I also set my maximum freeway speed at say 200klm/h, thereby avoiding prosecution for exceeding the posted lower limit.I guess not."

In many western states "R" (reasonable) was the posted speed limit.

Worked quite well.

There are far more responsible folks than childish imbeciles.

 

[Seevee]

And with all of it, your friends who are worthy of joining you on these occasions will appreciate that you're being careful and protective of them and others, who want to argue or pout over it, you know quickly not to take out again. This is just one of many decisions you make as captain of your boat and those who have a problem with this one are the same ones who would refuse to follow your orders in other serious situations.

You just outline the rules at the time of boarding and make sure you do so in a polite but firm way that makes it clear they are non-negotiable. We walk everyone through our rules their first time aboard. They must know that if you say for all to put their PFD's on at some point, all must do it. That if you say everyone inside, they do it. They don't ask questions or delay. If you say, get the life raft and get ready to abandon ship, they do it.

A couple of ours which may seem silly to some is that on our boat you will use high SPF suntan lotion and when we're docking, you won't move from where you are unless the captain has asked you to assist. All are designed for safety. And most important of all, is the captain is in charge.

Agreed, the Captain is the Captain. And I could argue that a boarding briefing should be had anytime a new comer comes aboard, and often a good review for some old farts that don't like to listen.

And totally in line with your docking rules. That's one that has been violated too many times and have to remind folks to keep their frigging hands off the lines and don't even think of getting off the boat, until docked and secured.

As for the fly bridge thing.... it really would be smart to get engineering data, or create your own that's accurate. I did a search on the same and came up with little. Anyone know a good way to calculate this without just going out to see how far it tips?

And, of course, conditions have a lot to do with this, from wave height to extra fuel in the tank.

Personally, I don't like a crowd on the flybridge.

 

[Chrisjs]

After all this discussion, I would guess any lawyer will have a field day in the unfortunate event that somebody is actually hurt as a result of bridge overcrowding on this vessel!!!